FG X, The Last EVER Falcon - Picture & Discussion Thread

[fgpsi]

The fat bastards at wheels registered a 13.3 from a Miami 335 (with r spec suspension) ? Give an auto to a granny and she'll do a 12

How embarrassing on wheels part

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by arronm

Sorry. If I was wrong. Only repeating what the ford/FPV salesman told me

I'd trust what a car salesman told me as much as I'd trust a Real Estate Agent

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by fgpsi

The fat bastards at wheels registered a 13.3 from a Miami 335 (with r spec suspension) ? Give an auto to a granny and she'll do a 12

How embarrassing on wheels part

covered numerous times, they test with 2 people and a tank of fuel, no adjustments in tyre pressures, etc.

[arronm]

Let's hope at least they tested auto against auto or manual against manual. One test I saw the ford was manual and the holden auto. Now that's a bit unfair

[arronm]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

No intercoolers because they make too much power from the factory. During development they did everything they could to strangle the motor to keep it at the realistic low 300s sticker. Miami was designed for an intercooler but it made around 430kw all day, none of this overboost BS. Throttles in the 335 are restricted to 60% and 80% in the GTF. Imagine the public outcry in 2010 when the motor was released if Ford jumped from 315kw to 430kw and close to 400rwkw. Another handy outcome for Ford is the cost savings involved by not having the need for intercooling to be at their desired point with miami.

This may be true. But ford had plenty of time to introduce the cooler into the GT-F. Holden say 430kw. Ford could have said similar.

And the new FG-X could have had a cooler. No one seems worried about Holden's 430kw


We all know this can be sorted with aftermarket parts

But stock for stock ford should have upped
their game at the end and stuck it to holden

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

No intercoolers because they make too much power from the factory. During development they did everything they could to strangle the motor to keep it at the realistic low 300s sticker. Miami was designed for an intercooler but it made around 430kw all day, none of this overboost BS. Throttles in the 335 are restricted to 60% and 80% in the GTF. Imagine the public outcry in 2010 when the motor was released if Ford jumped from 315kw to 430kw and close to 400rwkw. Another handy outcome for Ford is the cost savings involved by not having the need for intercooling to be at their desired point with miami.

Yes- this. Added to all this is that it is in Ford's interest to keep power down to 375 kw at the fly for the purposes on driveline longevity given the warranty period.

Anybody who buys this Miami and is an enthusiast with a mind to making a very special weekend car will know how accessible it all is to re bush the suspension, put in the intercooler kit which the supercharger housing was designed to accept, 3 inch cats, extractors, smaller pulley to make up for loss of boost with extractors, upgraded fuel jets, perhaps the Mustang 2 throttle body intake, flashtune, big harrop 6 piston brakes, and you will have something very very special....with over 500 kws...

And- Australians should be proud on the Miami- which is an Australian produced motor- look at the supercharger manifold- has "Harrop" stamped on the casting. Australian engineering power shop used by USA for supercharger works. The motor has different conrods and pistons to lower boost, different camshafts, just a different motor from Coyote. Is a Great fusion of best American/Australian/English (prodrive) engineering.

If you spend the lets say $18,000 and do the above work, you will have a car that blows the Holden GTS in terms of power ...let alone visceral sound and punch....

[arronm]

True. But this just keeps going around in circles as then the GTS guy spends a few bucks on his car and the power goes up as well

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by arronm

Holden say 430kw

Call me dumb

I cannot see more than 270 on their website.

HSV, a walkinshaw family owned company (using holdens under license) probably do more.
Ford do not compete with HSV.
FPV did, but no they longer exist (SVT or 999 may in the future).

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by arronm

True. But this just keeps going around in circles as then the GTS guy spends a few bucks on his car and the power goes up as well

True. But the GTS guy is limited by 2 valves and pushrods, and will need to spend a LOT more because of the engineering advantages the Miami has with 4 valves and quad overhead camshafts.

That's why Ford was able to detune the Miami and still achieve 375 kw.

So, relatively a Miami owner will need to spend only minimal money to get GTS power or more - ie 3 inch cats and a flashtune...

What did the GTS cost again? This is why the Miami is the performance bargain in Australia of the last decade.

[arronm]

Yep agree. If you can drive away for 60k. It is a performance bargain

[fgpsi]

Originally Posted by Wretched

covered numerous times, they test with 2 people and a tank of fuel, no adjustments in tyre pressures, etc.

2 obese people = 4 normal ppl

Basically they test with a full car load

[2242100]

Originally Posted by Wretched

covered numerous times, they test with 2 people and a tank of fuel, no adjustments in tyre pressures, etc.

Apparently WHEELS moved to testing without a passenger around 2010.

Jesse Taylor (formerly deputy editor of WHEELS, now editor of EVO AUSTRALIA) mentioned that point in his FPV vs HSV stripped bare feature that was posted in July of this year on the EVO AUSTRALIA website.

So I'd expect that there was no passenger.

[arronm]

As long as both cars are tested in a similar manner. Then at least times etc can be compared evenly for that day.

[Cashie]

Aaron, the over boost function (yes 335 is the minimum power), the construction of the Miami (yes more than just slapping the blower on is done here), the reason why an intercooler was left out (to protect the driveline and the chassis limitations) are all widely reported on here. Have a bit of a search and a read, the average salesman shouldn't be repeated as gospel.

Also a good read is what GM/HSV added to the drivetrain when they threw a LSA into a GTS, quite a bit more than an intercooler. Miami still gives it a good showing though.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by fgpsi

2 obese people = 4 normal ppl

Basically they test with a full car load

I suspect a lot of the problem might be loss of the overboost feature, I've seen evidence that (with the 335 kW) Miami, the acceleration on a first high speed run can be be significantly better than following runs that are done without a cooldown run in between tests.
Other cars can be affected in the same way, but I'd expect it to be worse with a forced induction car that has a temporary overboost feature. Keep in mind too that the Miami also doesn't have an intercooler.
On the positive side though, I'd expect the overboost feature to be generally there for everyday driving situations which is why people are so impressed with the pace of the cars.
I think testers may often keep doing tests on pretty ordinary surfaces (without cooldown runs between), and when they finally get the best launch, then that could be the run that gets published. The readers then get to see not particularly good 0-100 and 400 metre times with below potential rolling acceleration, and slower rolling acceleration will be the main cause of a poor 400 metre end speed.
I think it's similar with the standard FG Turbo's. Other untuned stock cars have had similar pace to mine, but the published tests have been quite a bit slower than what I've been able to get in single runs at the dragstrip.
With my car the overboost is normally there in everyday driving, but I wouldn't expect it to keep delivering in repeated runs without cooldown runs between.

[Top_Ghia]

Magazine test always give slow 1/4 mile times because they use V-Box times, not a timed 1/4 mile run. This makes quite a difference because of the roll out effect.
Plus they have some rubbish steerers as was quite evident on a recent Mustang test where one journo binned it on a windy road and took the front off. Oops.

[lucas2]

Originally Posted by arronm

Not 100 percent sure about holden but I have been told all ford do is fit the blower and drop the engine in

Here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPeYEG76ii8

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by lucas2

Here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPeYEG76ii8

Bit more than just slapping the blower on.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by Top_Ghia

Magazine test always give slow 1/4 mile times because they use V-Box times, not a timed 1/4 mile run. This makes quite a difference because of the roll out effect.
Plus they have some rubbish steerers as was quite evident on a recent Mustang test where one journo binned it on a windy road and took the front off. Oops.

If you shallow stage at the Dragstrip as much as possible with a Commodore/Falcon sized wheel you can get a maximum of around 15 inches of rollout. I believe the lights are to be set up so that a 22 inch wheel can get up to 12 inches of rollout, and the third light (the guard beam) is there to make sure that no car can get more than 16 inches of rollout. Also all distances are measured from the guard beam.

Depending on how fast the car launches that can reduce times by around 2-4 tenths.
Also keep in mind that at say 180 kmh, it takes around half a tenth longer for the car to go from 400 metres to the 1/4 mile point.

[arronm]

Originally Posted by lucas2

Here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPeYEG76ii8

Yeh. That salesman was very ill informed. He has been there for over 20 years and has sold FPV since they came out. Poor effort not to know the product,

Great vid. It's. Fully built engine

[SensationFG8]

Admitting you're wrong is the first step, good stuff

Honestly these motors are phenomenal, those writing the XR8 off without a drive should rethink and at least try one.

[XR Martin]

Latest Wheels mag says the FGX XR8 is limited to 230kmh?
Pretty sure the ED Sprint went faster than that.

[335POWER]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Latest Wheels mag says the FGX XR8 is limited to 230kmh?
Pretty sure the ED Sprint went faster than that.

With the speed limiter on, yea it's about 230, but turn it off, and in the right conditions, you'd crack 300

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Troy23

With the speed limiter on, yea it's about 230, but turn it off, and in the right conditions, you'd crack 300

297 km/h in the latest Wheels mag.

[bionic2006xr6t]

Originally Posted by lucas2

Here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPeYEG76ii8

I really enjoyed that video!

Cheers Ryan

[SensationFG8]

297 is the gtf not the XR8. Not sure XR8 can claim a gtf achievement given they are running a different tune.

Xr8 should still be good for 280 though with no limiter

Wonder why they didn't use the normal 255 limit?

[FPV8U]

The GTF was limited by its Aero rather than its power, if the FGX is a more slippery design, and without the big GT Wing on the boot it could well be faster than the GT-F for top speed.

[rancidpunx]

Neither will get there stock, they would need a tailshaft upgrade. 250kph is about all the stock shaft has to give safely.

[Sioso]

GT-F also had both speed and rev limiter removed.

[SensationFG8]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

The GTF was limited by its Aero rather than its power, if the FGX is a more slippery design, and without the big GT Wing on the boot it could well be faster than the GT-F for top speed.

When I see it I'll believe it, too hard to predict if the power matters more or the difference in drag (what is the difference by the way?), till then it's a gtf that actually ran those numbers