FG X, The Last EVER Falcon - Picture & Discussion Thread

[SensationFG8]

Yeah its all a bit of a media beat up, but a nice fun exercise that shows the capability of the motor

The video looked great too.

[Bossxr8]

The tailshaft was only replaced as a precaution, cause it's not hard to figure out what would happen if it snapped at high speed. Not because it needed to be cause it was assured of failure.

[XR Martin]

Diff breather was pouring oil out onto the exhaust too.
Sounds like it also needed a diff cooler if you were going to do it more than once.

[FGX-302]

http://youtu.be/AbiHPJBPzYU

Off topic but man this hits home on what we are losing.
Much respect to both of these drivers in the pinnacle of Australian motor racing for my generation!

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The tailshaft was only replaced as a precaution, cause it's not hard to figure out what would happen if it snapped at high speed. Not because it needed to be cause it was assured of failure.

Does the centre speed readout on FG read up to 255 only or 999?

[rancidpunx]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Prodrive floated 375 versus 425 with charts to back it up at the day we attended. That's a 12% differential. May not be true but they had no real reason to mislead.

I'd still rather a real world test, just measuring percentages of two variables is not a great method ;) and it'd make for awesome viewing.

Dyno runs and drag racing numbers dont show those figures though from what has been seen. With the same running gear underneath as the 335 they should be showing bigger numbers on the dyno and more MPH down the strip. Its not like HSVs claimed 430kw that they can claim a big loss through the drivetrain, with 335 dynoing 310-330rwkw the GTF should all be throwing out numbers above 350rwkw but they are only running up 330ish. Driving them both back to back in the hills here they are very similar although the F is a manual and did feel like it was willing to pull more where as my 335 is ZF. 10rwkw difference on the same dyno. If the GTF has 425kw (which would be sweet) the 335s and the new XR8 have close 400kw or they are 375 and the F is more like 400kw.

[responsef6]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

Dyno runs and drag racing numbers dont show those figures though from what has been seen. With the same running gear underneath as the 335 they should be showing bigger numbers on the dyno and more MPH down the strip. Its not like HSVs claimed 430kw that they can claim a big loss through the drivetrain, with 335 dynoing 310-330rwkw the GTF should all be throwing out numbers above 350rwkw but they are only running up 330ish. Driving them both back to back in the hills here they are very similar although the F is a manual and did feel like it was willing to pull more where as my 335 is ZF. 10rwkw difference on the same dyno. If the GTF has 425kw (which would be sweet) the 335s and the new XR8 have close 400kw or they are 375 and the F is more like 400kw.

Can confirm sensationfg8's comment re fwkw of gtf and 335 tunes. Saw the graph myself and prodrive/premcar had held back on telling the fwkw number for both cars (backed by dyno charts on screen) until that day.

The additional comment said was " we wanted to give the gtf 351 at the wheels" which is why Ford went so hard at wheels for the initial dyno test being so low.

I recall gtf014 did 349 on one of the dynos in that test, which backs up the claim.

There is huge sample dyno data for 335, but not many real world dyno tests for gtf so far, and most are very low kms and will loosen up further.

Time will tell.

[rancidpunx]

Originally Posted by responsef6

Can confirm sensationfg8's comment re fwkw of gtf and 335 tunes. Saw the graph myself and prodrive/premcar had held back on telling the fwkw number for both cars (backed by dyno charts on screen) until that day.

The additional comment said was " we wanted to give the gtf 351 at the wheels" which is why Ford went so hard at wheels for the initial dyno test being so low.

I recall gtf014 did 349 on one of the dynos in that test, which backs up the claim.

There is huge sample dyno data for 335, but not many real world dyno tests for gtf so far, and most are very low kms and will loosen up further.

Time will tell.

Certainly interesting from FPV, nobodies doubting them the more the better if your a blue fan. Maybe a case of the GTF having a much smaller window to access the additional power reserves in terms of intake temps and such when being strapped down. My friend was happy with his 330rwkw although was expecting more especially being a manual and I ran up 320rwkw. GTF014 also ran up 326 on the other dyno which when averaged out brings in back to into that 400kw ball park. As Sensation said they would have no reason to inflate it but we cant start claiming figures when we are all so hard on the GTS not showing its output claim. Im sure HSV would have a dyno chart somewhere as well. Time will tell as you said though, once they start opening up and we start to see a few more down the strip.

[arronm]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

It wasn't simply that they make too much power. It's not as if you add an intercooler, suddenly it's making a million kw. They could have made the same power with less boost and more consistently. While FPV only claimed a maximum of 6psi, the PCM reads more than half a bar and then it tapers back, not the other way around. They could have taken even more boost out of it. The lack of a cooler was a cost thing, regardless of what they say. They could have easily set them up to make less power. Look at the GS for example, while the GT is a consistent low-mid 12 second car, the GS struggles to dip below 13. It's all in the tune. Once the Miami gets hot enough, the PCM pulls boost out and richens the mixture. You can feel the power drop off after a few hits.

Yep totally agree. That's why with the top speed run the car would have been real hot and making less power

[arronm]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Not really, I agree horsepower is important, but so is slipperiness. If you have a brick with 400+ kW obviously it'll be slower than a dart with 400+ kW.

There is a balance to be found between power, downforce and slipperiness to get top speeds.

According to the stats on FGX it does reduce the drag coefficient from 0.312cd to 0.291cd. Practically I dont know what this means for top speed, I'm not studious enough in these matters to know for sure. What I do know is that given the same power the FGX will have a slightly higher top speed than an FG.

The question now is weather the extra power on the GTF makes up for the reduced drag on the FGX. Only a real world test will tell us for sure I say lets get them all out to the NT for high speed runs!!!

Edit: Of course the FGX weighs more too, so how does that offset the extra slippery? There are so many variables when you push it right to the limits.

Seeing as we drive the cars we do and without changing front and rear spoilers (like race cars) we can't change the drag coefficient. So a BA BF FG and so on will have what they left the factory with. So then the limiting factor is horsepower


And we all know you can never have to much of that

[LASTXR]

I saw a new HSV add on tv a couple of days ago.
At the end they said it had a big 340kw of power.
What happened to 430kw or what ever it use to have.
I think after the 351 beat the 430 reality set in

[commodorenutt]

340 is what the non-supercharged cars have (Clubby, Senator, Std Maloo).

[tapeworm]

Originally Posted by FG2-XR6

I saw a new HSV add on tv a couple of days ago.
At the end they said it had a big 340kw of power.
What happened to 430kw or what ever it use to have.
I think after the 351 beat the 430 reality set in

They advertise the GTS as the most powerful Aussie muscle car you can buy still..Doesn't GT-F make more or?

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by tapeworm

They advertise the GTS as the most powerful Aussie muscle car you can buy still..Doesn't GT-F make more or?

You can't buy a GT-F. So they are probably correct.

[kypez]

Well, I just saw something interesting. The Mustang specs on the Ford Site says its going to put out only 303KW. Seems we are getting a detuned version. The XR8 should really give the Mustang a run for its money now! Whats worse is the stang is tested on 98!

Engine - V8
Mustang Fastback Mustang Convertible
Fuel delivery - Easy Fuel™ Capless Fuel Filler Sequential multiport electronic Sequential multiport electronic
Fuel tank capacity (litres) 61 61
Fuel type 98 RON 98 RON
Maximum power output (kW/rpm) 303 @ 6500 rpm1 303 @ 6500 rpm2
Maximum torque output (Nm/rpm) 525 @ 4250 rpm3 525 @ 4250 rpm4

[arronm]

Yeh I think Holden told a few porkies about the 430 GTS. It under 400 I think.

And ford understated 335 and 351. It's a lot more

But unfortunately people just look at the badge. And 430>351

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by kypez

Well, I just saw something interesting. The Mustang specs on the Ford Site says its going to put out only 303KW. Seems we are getting a detuned version. The XR8 should really give the Mustang a run for its money now! Whats worse, is the stang is tested on 98!

Different testing procedure between US and Australia has the US version showing more power. The are the same power.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Different testing procedure between US and Australia has the US version showing more power. The are the same power.

Does that mean our 335KW XR8 would test higher then as well?

Added: The EcoBoost is the same power so I dont think the US vs Aus testing argument is right.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by kypez

Does that mean our 335KW XR8 would test higher then as well?

Added: The EcoBoost is the same power so I dont think the US vs Aus testing is right.

Power in DIn is what we use here in AU and Europe I believe. It's basically engine power tested with all fixed ancillaries. So based on this standard , the power figures are always going to come in slightly lower than the SAE standard , which is more difficult to measure as it's more dependent on the manufacturers own claims and testing procedures.

So technically , our local cars here tested to DIN, may give higher figures if tested against SAE standards. Doesn't mean the engine makes more power , just means the measuring system is slightly different.
Miles v klm. Pounds v kg.

[commodorenutt]

The mustang power rating was discussed in one of the mustang threads, and there were a number of answers.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Power in DIn is what we use here in AU and Europe I believe. It's basically engine power tested with all fixed ancillaries. So based on this standard , the power figures are always going to come in slightly lower than the SAE standard , which is more difficult to measure as it's more dependent on the manufacturers own claims and testing procedures.

So technically , our local cars here tested to DIN, may give higher figures if tested against SAE standards. Doesn't mean the engine makes more power , just means the measuring system is slightly different.
Miles v klm. Pounds v kg.

Yeah, I remember the DIN vs SAE. HSV changed their standard between the 307KW model and the 317KW. It was a change in measurement unit.

But that said, as noted, the EcoBoost puts out the same power in both countries but the V8 doesnt. I think our noise regs have resulted in power loss for the V8.

I think this is a good thing as the Australian mustang might test slower than the US specs giving our beloved Falcon one last victory.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

The mustang power rating was discussed in one of the mustang threads, and there were a number of answers.

My bad! Got excited when I just saw it! Found the thread... same unanswered questions there too!

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by arronm

Yeh I think Holden told a few porkies about the 430 GTS. It under 400 I think.

And ford understated 335 and 351. It's a lot more

But unfortunately people just look at the badge. And 430>351

DIN vs ECE maybe?

People look at catalogs, websites and other publications that report the figures. Most of the general public don't go and dyno a car to get the power rating. Ford shouldn't understate the figure.

[Bonn]

Breaking News....

Saw FG-X on-road (i.e. in traffic situation) in Sydney for the first time this morning, (Norwest Boulevarde 8:30am).
An XR6T in Winter White - just STUNNING!
A very pleasant start to the day...........

[Professor Farnsworth]

I saw a blue xrt the other day, looked nice. Have a video somewhere.

[chopstar87]

I call B.S on the Mustang power.. how is it the 6.4litre Hemi is rated the same here and in the states? but the 5.0 isn't.

on topic, I don't mind the XR8 in the blue, looks good..

[Bonn]

Fords and Jags seem to always look their best in blue for some reason...

[AUS GRUNT]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Different testing procedure between US and Australia has the US version showing more power. The are the same power.

Hi, not related to your comment, but i just noticed you have an emperor red XR8 as your avatar...is that yours, as i wouldn't mind having a look at a pic or two of one in red (im sure others would like to see also) if thats ok with you ?

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by AUS GRUNT

Hi, not related to your comment, but i just noticed you have an emperor red XR8 as your avatar...is that yours, as i wouldn't mind having a look at a pic or two of one in red (im sure others would like to see also) if thats ok with you ?

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11429620

has a build thread with pics in it

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11429620

has a build thread with pics in it

Wow- the rear end of that XR8 in emperor looks fantastic....aggressive but modern to boot.