Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Ok we're backtracking to a former comment so apparently your “fake news” comment is now also just a moot point.

I could say the same. Show me where I said you actually want to see ICE eliminated. I did not say anything of the sort.

I said " You go on an on about the benefits of EV's and their future role in eliminating ICE". That is not saying you wanted ICE eliminated.

We can all recall you and your mate kmav23's constant former huge post barrage's basically doing Tesla's advertising for them to the extent they were virtually going to rule the car market.

It was interesting to note that you have now joined other members and dropped him like a hot spud. Also your basic views are now more congenial towards members.

But FYI past comments have espoused the view that ICE is on borrowed time, eg;

ICE will be around for trucking and rural but for city transport, it's becoming less and less relevant. Especially if the rest of the world embraces EVs, Australia will be forced to change or change to LHD to get legacy ICE.

I think the ICE is on borrowed time. I think the push to go electric is too strong especially with some of the timelines the European countries are outlining. As the price of EV's come down, most of the population will move to them for being cheap, easy to run and no servicing....They don't care for performance. Just something to get them from A to B

Just stating what was I could see was inevitable.

We are just at the infancy of EV technology improvements cost reduction which will accelerate hugely in the next few years.

All the money resources are being spent on EVs autonomy, even Apple, Google and big silicon valley companies are investing.

50% new cars in Norway are now EVs and they will ban them all new ice car sales 2025.

Elon is now the wealthiest man in the world, Tesla worth more than Facebook and the fifth most valuable company in U.S.

If your a car maker you spend all money on EVs development now. Ditto for those who wasted billions on hydrogen technology.

Just announced Apple and Hyundai will form partnership make EVs !

Apple has already spent billions past few years to make an ev car.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Just stating what was I could see was inevitable.

We are just at the infancy of EV technology improvements cost reduction which will accelerate hugely in the next few years.

All the money resources are being spent on EVs autonomy, even Apple, Google and big silicon valley companies are investing.

50% new cars in Norway are now EVs and they will ban them all new ice car sales 2025.

Elon is now the wealthiest man in the world, Tesla worth more than Facebook and the fifth most valuable company in U.S.

If your a car maker you spend all money on EVs development now. Ditto for those who wasted billions on hydrogen technology.

Just announced Apple and Hyundai will form partnership make EVs !

Apple has already spent billions past few years to make an ev car.

Y'know, you never did tell us what you drive did you?

[ozrunner]

Gawd I thought you were extinct.

Originally Posted by kmav23

......50% new cars in Norway are now EVs and they will ban them all new ice car sales 2025.

As I said elsewhere I wouldn't laud Norways actions being the worlds 8th largest oil producer who ships its oil to other countries to use so they're no saints.

Elon is now the wealthiest man in the world, Tesla worth more than Facebook and the fifth most valuable company in U.S.

Please don't tell us you believe this total BS as neither he nor Tesla are anywhere near many individuals or other companies. I don't understand how so called expert reporters can peddle such garbage.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Gawd I thought you were extinct.

You're the one to blame for this. You used the screenname and he/she appeared! You went there!

[ozrunner]

Can I plead brain fart

[PG2]

Any further mention of Elon Musk and how much he earns or how rich he is will have their post deleted and I may even hand out a few short holidays.

[Ben73]

Just refrain from using the E word or the T word and they take their own little holiday.

[hayseed]

electric cars accounted for 0.56 per cent of all new motor vehicles sold in Australia in 2020

https://www.caradvice.com.au/914746/...-cent-in-2020/

I reckon the ICE powered Car is pretty safe for few more years Yet..

[b0son]

Originally Posted by hayseed

I reckon the ICE powered Car is pretty safe for few more years Yet..

Yes, but largely due to supply constraints.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by b0son

Yes, but largely due to supply constraints.

This! will be interesting once all the manufacturers start to roll out their offerings locally. There are so many cars available globally but they can't supply the demand in their own markets let alone export to us (with the added RHD development). Mini EV's have 6-8 month wait times at the moment and are one of the cheaper EV's. Hyundai/Nissan as well. So much demand, so little supply.

[tweeked]

It also means twilight of the Car Enthusiast forums.

Pretty quiet over at Fisher and Paykel forums......has been forever.

[lra]

Originally Posted by PG2

Any further mention of Elon Musk and how much he earns or how rich he is will have their post deleted and I may even hand out a few short holidays.

Create a separate forum thread with one subject only, and the disciples of Electric Jesus and his wonky wheeled carts can bang on as much as they like, leaving us in blissful ignorance, and with our love of dinosaur juice.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by tweeked

It also means twilight of the Car Enthusiast forums.

Pretty quiet over at Fisher and Paykel forums......has been forever.

Not really. Just a new kind of enthusiast coming through. There doesn't have to be only 1 type of car enthusiast. We have 4x4 ones, performance cars, drifting, etc... so many to choose from. The propulsion source is not the be all and end all.

Did we say it was the end of motorsport when a diesel engine won the Le Mans?!

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by kypez

Not really. Just a new kind of enthusiast coming through. There doesn't have to be only 1 type of car enthusiast. We have 4x4 ones, performance cars, drifting, etc... so many to choose from. The propulsion source is not the be all and end all.

Did we say it was the end of motorsport when a diesel engine won the Le Mans?!

It will be interesting to see. I have a thought on the subject. The more there is to go wrong with something, the more likely it is that it will have a following of people that love something beyond its normal utility. The complexity of the ICE, so much that can break, be modified, it breaths, it nearly has a heartbeat. It is so inefficient, that there is always methods to make them better etc. All this means they are interesting to talk about, and very little to prove that your way is the best, which leads to hundreds of thousands of conversations.

Electric motors, well, you can put more current through..........get a bigger or more efficient battery........ and then? Each to their own, and by the way, diesel is an ICE, not as nice, but still ICE. I just had to google to see if Formula E is still going.

There is nothing wrong with electric - it is necessary, it is more efficient. I just can't see there ever being 50 year old electric cars going for $1000000, guys reviving them form an inch of the crusher, epic build threads.

I will be that old romantic sitting outside the nursing home talking about cam overlap, the smell of unburnt fuel, hitting the limiter when you didn't mean to, changing gears (remember gears!!) and the only battery worries I had was will she turn over after having the stereo on for too long while I worked on the car in the garage!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by kypez

Not really. Just a new kind of enthusiast coming through.

One need only look at the way people are hacking their powerwalls. Tomorrow's enthusiasts will be programmers, not mechanics.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by tweeked

It will be interesting to see. I have a thought on the subject. The more there is to go wrong with something, the more likely it is that it will have a following of people that love something beyond its normal utility. The complexity of the ICE, so much that can break, be modified, it breaths, it nearly has a heartbeat. It is so inefficient, that there is always methods to make them better etc. All this means they are interesting to talk about, and very little to prove that your way is the best, which leads to hundreds of thousands of conversations.

Electric motors, well, you can put more current through..........get a bigger or more efficient battery........ and then? Each to their own, and by the way, diesel is an ICE, not as nice, but still ICE. I just had to google to see if Formula E is still going.

There is nothing wrong with electric - it is necessary, it is more efficient. I just can't see there ever being 50 year old electric cars going for $1000000, guys reviving them form an inch of the crusher, epic build threads.

I will be that old romantic sitting outside the nursing home talking about cam overlap, the smell of unburnt fuel, hitting the limiter when you didn't mean to, changing gears (remember gears!!) and the only battery worries I had was will she turn over after having the stereo on for too long while I worked on the car in the garage!

I'll tell you most "enthusiasts" will have no clue about cams or anything such. They are more interested in Big wheels, putting tyres that are too big for the wheel on them, cutting springs, and so on. You get the idea. All of these things can be done in the EV world as well (sadly!).

Diesel might have been ICE but it was never regarded well in motorsport. Look at the current crop of Hypercars/Supercars, the fastest ones all have some form of electrification.

Sure, you can over simplify and say its as simple of passing more power through the system, thats it. Well, its not. Takes a lot of clever engineering to keep a high performance electric motor working and consistently (look at all the MGUK failures in F1, its not as simple as you think).

Manuals have been disappearing for over 25 years now... Maybe more. There was a time when if you were an enthusiast you drove a manual. That changed. Now its ICE... That too will change.

I will enjoy my ICE till my last days but just like my ICE cars now, I do the engine last. So much can be done with suspension, unsprung weight, spring rates, tyres, wheels, brakes, the list goes on before the engine ever comes into question. But then again, I like circuit work and am not a straight line performance enthusiast. But I wouldn't call someone driving an auto (or manual) in a straight line any less of an enthusiast if they're passionate about it.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by b0son

One need only look at the way people are hacking their powerwalls. Tomorrow's enthusiasts will be programmers, not mechanics.

I'd argue since EFI, enthusiasts have been programmers for a while now.

[CyberWasp]

Back many of millions of years ago,
I think Crocodiles laughed when they were told that Dinosaurs where in their twilight.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by kypez

Look at the current crop of Hypercars/Supercars, the fastest ones all have some form of electrification.

All except the three fastest

[kypez]

Originally Posted by tweeked

All except the three fastest

Depends on what you consider fastest I suppose. Like I said, not a straight line fan. I can appreciate it but doesn't get me excited.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by b0son

Yes, but largely due to supply constraints.

I'd say price tags have a lot to do with it, which incidentally is factored in the cost of ownership

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

I'd say price tags have a lot to do with it, which incidentally is factored in the cost of ownership

Maybe supply of the cheaper EV model is also the issue. They exist in overseas markets (without considering Tax breaks and other incentives) but aren't imported into Australia at the moment due to our viewed resistance to change.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by kypez

(without considering Tax breaks and other incentives) but aren't imported into Australia at the moment due to our viewed resistance to change.

Bet buyers market would change if they handed out ABN holder tax breaks like they did with dual cab Thai utes.
Maybe an electric ute market would kick start change with the same tax incentives.

Was equally amazing how ICE sedans died out shortly after this tax break was introduced.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Bet buyers market would change if they handed out ABN holder tax breaks like they did with dual cab Thai utes.
Maybe an electric ute market would kick start change with the same tax incentives.

Was equally amazing how ICE sedans died out shortly after this tax break was introduced.

You touch on a good point, Industry is where they should be targeting rather than trying to convince households to change their ways.
with industry if there is a saving or government incentive the progression will follow.

But I still think its Hybrid not full EV that will make it.

are there hybrid Trucks in operation now?
KW has this Hybrid/CNG powered Prototype a few years ago now
https://www.kenworth.com/news/news-r...ril/t680-hect/

[kypez]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Bet buyers market would change if they handed out ABN holder tax breaks like they did with dual cab Thai utes.
Maybe an electric ute market would kick start change with the same tax incentives.

Was equally amazing how ICE sedans died out shortly after this tax break was introduced.

Be interesting once Cybertruck and the Rivian RT1 turn up (I want to know more about the Rivian given the Ford backing). Both due in the next year or so but they are both US F150 sized cars which might be too big for our market.

Mining seem keen to make the switch to reduce their costs (servicing, fuel, exhaust exposure in mines, etc). Apparently easier to charge them in remote sites.

https://thedriven.io/2021/01/12/bhp-...vehicle-trial/

[Crazy Dazz]

Nah
People will buy hybrids because they're gullible, but can still buy their overprice crap with all it's accoutrements, whilst patting themselves on the back for saving the planet, and getting their daily dose of smugness, all at no inconvenience to themselves.
EV's have a way to go yet, although fans of bus-biscuits will get there sooner.

[tweeked]

One interesting thing with EV's will the barrier to LHD/RHD be lowered to nowhere near the issue it is with ICE? As most controls become drive by wire, you really are only moving your playstation controls over to the other side of the car.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Nah
People will buy hybrids because they're gullible, but can still buy their overprice crap with all it's accoutrements, whilst patting themselves on the back for saving the planet, and getting their daily dose of smugness, all at no inconvenience to themselves.
EV's have a way to go yet, although fans of bus-biscuits will get there sooner.

I'm the least convinced person to be praising EV's but I can not see why the mining industry would be any different to say the building industry trialling this.
New houses (and estates) are built all the time away from grid connection at first, all the local trades either have portable generator power, powering their tools or sun power, charging their battery packs.

On a grand scale......

I can see large sun tracking solar arrays set up to charge the fleets of onsite utes simply driving into a charger parking cradle while they swap between fully charged vehicles and depleted charge vehicles.
Won't happen now but as large companies are given incentives to go EV why wouldn't they.
I mean they are saving money cutting jobs with fully automated equipment this would be just another step beyond that especially as most of them would probably like to claim carbon credits.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

KW has this Hybrid/CNG powered Prototype a few years ago now
https://www.kenworth.com/news/news-r...ril/t680-hect/

Kenworth have been working on a full E truck.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Kenworth have been working on a full E truck.

image

I guess they would have to with the Daimler Freightliner eCascadia and Volvo range coming out too. Both Daimler and Volvo are also working together on a hydrogen solution for the long term.