Fatal driver was .19

[Big Mike]

Originally Posted by FTGAutosalvage

loosing you car for a month would stop most young hoons.)

Your other suggestions are fine, but this one is not - losing your car, or your parents car, or the mechanic getting your Lambo impounded, has already shown flaws - and the fact this kid was unlicensed in the sense he was drinking and had more than one passenger means he "could not drive" the fact the car was unregistered means it "could not be driven" I fully disagree with speed limitting any vehicle, as overtaking or evading risky situations sometimes needs a quick squirt, but crushing or confiscating a car does nothing more than suspending a license or rego - which we know does nothing for these crittence.

Start holding parents responsible for their kids' actions at a much younger age - like when this punk was shoplifting, drinking, doing drugs, and stealing cars at 13.

[left]

Originally Posted by mik

i`m happy you turned out allright Left, and are successful in life, but thats a very simplistic view imo, i fear if everyone take`s such a simplistic view, the problems of young people are going to be with us for long time to come.

Lol @ simplistic view. I can tell you it was anything but simple to make it happen and itt would have been MUCH easier for me to go the past of least resistance...turn in to a druggie loser who binge drinks and steals from old ladies or lives on the dole forever.

Actually going out in to the world and making a go of things and becoming a productive and useful member of society takes a set of nads; something these young men did not have from what I can gather. A 6 cylinder engine is no substitute for some balls and self-respect.

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

Start holding parents responsible for their kids' actions at a much younger age - like when this punk was shoplifting, drinking, doing drugs, and stealing cars at 13.

Sometimes that does not work. My sister was doing these sorts of things from the age of about 12. No matter what my folks did, she was uncontrollable. Then she ran away from home. Next thing we know, she's got 3 kids, didn't want any of them and gave them away to friends. Now my parents have the 3 girls and are raising them with zero assistance from my sister. In fact, she hates her own kids. And she doesn't even know them. Sad. Yes.

Bottom line is, blaming the parents is an easy thing to do. In most cases it is the parents fault. But sometimes, the kids are that messed up in the head, no matter what you do, you cannot change their ways. Getting control of it from an earlier age is a good start. Even now, one of my neices who resembles her mother in so many way aside from looks, has already developed her mothers attitiude and she's heading down the same path. What are you suppossed to do. Can you curve it or educate them better. I really don't know. But what I know is that it's not all black and white.

I've taken a lot from my parents.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

Your other suggestions are fine, but this one is not - losing your car, or your parents car, or the mechanic getting your Lambo impounded, has already shown flaws - and the fact this kid was unlicensed in the sense he was drinking and had more than one passenger means he "could not drive" the fact the car was unregistered means it "could not be driven" I fully disagree with speed limitting any vehicle, as overtaking or evading risky situations sometimes needs a quick squirt, but crushing or confiscating a car does nothing more than suspending a license or rego - which we know does nothing for these crittence.

Start holding parents responsible for their kids' actions at a much younger age - like when this punk was shoplifting, drinking, doing drugs, and stealing cars at 13.

The current impounding system does have some flaws, but I'm not entirely against it. There needs to be less involvement of how grumpy the officer is feeling on a particular night and more clear-cut dot points to be followed.

Impounding the parents car I dont mind so much, maybe it will encourage the parents to discipline their kids more.
The mechanic situation on the other hand is different, I would hope that reporting it as a theft would void the impounding and the vehicle be released straight away. You have no control over an employee of another company.

[Davebro]

We have all the same issues here in NZ....

But the main problem here is that Imports are dirt cheap, so all the young 'boy racers' drive turbo'd Mitsis, Subarus, Nissans etc. Its a problem. Mix that with booze and drugs, and you have real issues.

Unfortunately I dont think it will ever go away. If they kill themselves, then good job. Its when they take the innocent people with them that it really gets hard.

The police are trying to combat it here, but with only limited success.

[robbyg]

Yeh i think big mike hit the nail on the head, the young driver played russian roullete, using a motor car and lost , unfortunately his family and family of his friends have to live with the outcome!

[XR8GRL]

Originally Posted by 03wrx

If alcohol was banned you would see less road death, less pedestrian accidents, less bashings on the steets, less domestic violence against women & children, less sexually committed crimes, less diseases such as liver disease, diabetes, cardiac disease, less homeless, and so on so on.

Its one of the biggest business's in western world, and these companies make their money by putting many people and families into misery.

If you see alcohol as a moral sin as I do, you wont touch it. I cant see anyone being better off not refraining from drinking the stuff.

Alcohol isn't the 100% cause of all you have listed.

[left]

Originally Posted by XR8GRL

Alcohol isn't the 100% cause of all you have listed.

I dont think he said it was the cause of all ills, he said there would be less *insert problem here* which is absolutely true. Without alcohol there WOULD be a lot less nastiness of all kinds. Never going to happen but nice to think about...

[Franco Cozzo]

They banned Alcohol in America in the 30s I think it was, all it did was set up a nice business for Alphonse Capone. The "prohibition" period I think it was called.

[03wrx]

Originally Posted by loftie

The biggest Hurdle to this suggestion 03WRX is actually the TAX...

Why do you think that the government will NEVER ever ban the sale of cigarettes??

They are proven to be cancer-sticks... and have absolutely ZERO benefits to your life or health... but every year they reap millions of dollars in TAX, as well as millions of dollars worth of health related spending to combat the negative health issues...

Same goes for alcohol...

And don't even get me started on the PETROL tax... *off topic*

Suppose you're right though...
Lets just ban alcohol, smoking, driving, fast food, industry manufacturing...
May as well ban TV and radio while we're at it...

Then we'll all live forever!!!
(and be bored and depressed out of our minds)

Hi Loftie
Im not a smoker either, but smoking does harm mainly to the person taking it. If you eat too much fast food, well then that person alone will have to put up with some form of cardiovascular disease in later life. But alcohol and other brain altering substances are in a different category- they can have a flow-on effect.

My business is right across the road from a bottle shop. It is frightening how busy they are, and its only a small one. Even during the day, they make massive amounts of trade. I also know the owners, and they have little regard for the health of their customers, only the health of their bank accounts.

Maybe as said above banning is not a solution, but having future parents of this world discourage their children not to use it. I have 2 kids, and Im in my 30s. I would most definitely educate them regarding the moral and social reasons against drinking alcohol, and being around friends that are ****ed.
Once someone establishes a conviction not to drink alcohol, they are not compelled in the slightest to use it.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by 03wrx

Hi Loftie
My business is right across the road from a bottle shop. It is frightening how busy they are, and its only a small one. Even during the day, they make massive amounts of trade. I also know the owners, and they have little regard for the health of their customers, only the health of their bank accounts.

Maybe as said above banning is not a solution, but having future parents of this world discourage their children not to use it. I have 2 kids, and Im in my 30s. I would most definitely educate them regarding the moral and social reasons against drinking alcohol, and being around friends that are ****ed.
Once someone establishes a conviction not to drink alcohol, they are not compelled in the slightest to use it.

.... drinking is legal and so is the selling of it and is enjoyed by 95% of the population moderately and responsibly (Guestamit). They can be as busy as they want to be and good luck to them .....

It will not be banned because of the minority wowser community who like to think they are responsible for the problem minority and need to have bans and laws because of them that effects the majority.

Lifting the drinking age will not work .... it doesn't now with the 16-17 year olds, so don't know why it would be different with a slightly older age bracket just to appease the problem minority. Some out there will break the law with no regard to those around them and to any consequence from any law. The court rooms are an example of this everyday.



| [/url] |

[Big Mike]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

No matter what my folks did, she was uncontrollable. Then she ran away from home. Next thing we know, she's got 3 kids, didn't want any of them and gave them away to friends. Now my parents have the 3 girls and are raising them with zero assistance from my sister. In fact, she hates her own kids. And she doesn't even know them. Sad. Yes. ..... Even now, one of my neices who resembles her mother in so many way aside from looks, has already developed her mothers attitiude and she's heading down the same path

I need to word this carefully but I'd like to address this if I may; your siblings have different personalities which is why some of you turned out different to your sister. Different teaching methods and parental controls are required for different kids - nurturing the right values, ruling out the wrong ones. I don't want to speak badly of your folks, this is where its hard to type as not to offend - but the personality of your sister and your niece is partly genetically linked, the behaviours you're seeing and the paths they lead are a result of having the same parental input. So when I sweepingly say "blame the parents" I mean, what they thought was the right thing to do didn't work for your sister, and is having the same impact on your neice. Blaming crap like ADHD instead of poor discipline is a cop out lots of families use; I have no idea if this is the case here but perhaps in all of this there needs to be some parental assistance - help for the parents when they aren't dealing or getting the results they need. SuperNanny is one thing, counselling and so on must be available. Its easy for an outsider to call out "discipline and respect" or a hippy to say "woaha ADHD duuuudes" but I hope you can look at the positives like this is a second chance for your folks to work on that particular personality that was so troublesome with your sister? Hope that came out positively somehow... and sorry if its off topic. Guess I'm trying to say for almost everything I see "blame the parents" for not controlling their child (while it was a child) and with cases like Bucknaked's example - HELP the parents get contol of the child (while still a child).


Spot on Dave - 12 year olds get drunk regardless the 18 year old requirement. They smoke, do drugs, and get pregnant too. All of which is illegal. No rego? No license? Not old enough? Might get caught? NONE of this makes a scrap of difference and as soon as the law makers and vocal do-gooders get their heads around that, and start working on education, accountability, and keeping irresponsible people off the streets the better. Doesn't matter if they don't have a license they'll still drive - but then hit them hard, same as carrying guns, knives, or operating any other type of potentially lethal weapon unlicensed - and psychologically test people for maturity and responsibility before even sitting a drivers license, or a gun license while we're at it.

[Geez Louise]

I was speaking to my sister tonight who lives in WA. Both her and her husband have worked hard all their lives...Trying to bring their kids up correctly and to benefit society.

3 out of the 4 kids are doing exceptionally well...All in high positions work wise but one of her sons is what you could call the "black sheep"

He went out on the weekend, drunk behind the wheel, was spotted by the police and tried to outrun them. Police pursuit happened and he was even tassered when he was finally caught. He blew .08 and the limit in WA is .05

So, in response to so many peoples opinions on it is how you raise your children...I thought exactly the same...and then I heard this!

It makes no sense and it has no reason. I talked to my nephew and asked "Why did you do it!"...his response..." My Mates wanted me too"

I just do not understand it! What has gone wrong? Are we spoiling the kids too much? I would have thought so but after talking to my nephew tonight...Maybe peer pressure is more intense then when we were younger. They want it all...and they want it now!

It is a senseless waste!

[Cheese3]

This is off topic alittle!
I agree parenting/dicipline can play a big part in reducing these unfortunate events! But the so called "DO GOODERS" are taking away alot of the power parents have, smacking ect ect!

I'm 22 and so called "GEN-Y" but I always had my old man saying "if I catch you damaging property ect ect, I'll knock your block off" and he did knock my block very well afew times! I have nothing against my old man, I love him to bits, and I beleive what he did turned me into a more responsible and mature person!

back on topic!
I can garrentee you nearly, alcohol wasn't the only drug in their system! It's everywhere!

Condolances to the familys of the 5 but I have no sympathy for the ones involve! They played with fire and they got burnt! Befor I get my head bitten off, i have also lost a mate drink driving and my veiws are the same! Tragic yes! Effects the community but people never learn cause people still drink and drive!

Just my 2c

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

I was speaking to my sister tonight who lives in WA. Both her and her husband have worked hard all their lives...Trying to bring their kids up correctly and to benefit society.

3 out of the 4 kids are doing exceptionally well...All in high positions work wise but one of her sons is what you could call the "black sheep"

He went out on the weekend, drunk behind the wheel, was spotted by the police and tried to outrun them. Police pursuit happened and he was even tassered when he was finally caught. He blew .08 and the limit in WA is .05

So, in response to so many peoples opinions on it is how you raise your children...I thought exactly the same...and then I heard this!

It makes no sense and it has no reason. I talked to my nephew and asked "Why did you do it!"...his response..." My Mates wanted me too"

I just do not understand it! What has gone wrong? Are we spoiling the kids too much? I would have thought so but after talking to my nephew tonight...Maybe peer pressure is more intense then when we were younger. They want it all...and they want it now!

It is a senseless waste!

Totally agree.

Unfortunately some people you just can't reach no matter how hard you try.

:

[JC]

The only good from this is that the survivor was NOT the driver! Come to think of it, I reckon it's a miracle anyone survived that impact.

This is a truly sad story, but hopefully with 5 from one community all gone at once, others in that age group in that community might start to get the message about DUI.

[03wrx]

This is why youngens drink......its funny. Whats better when you have little responsibility in life, but to get ****ed and make a spectacle of yourself. Your mates will love you for it. From the vid below, Id be worried if i was a parent of one of those girls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkBTS...eature=related

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by JC

This is a truly sad story, but hopefully with 5 from one community all gone at once, others in that age group in that community might start to get the message about DUI.

You would hope so but after reading the reports of all their friends drinking at the crash site, it seems this is not the case.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

And before anyone says it, educating your kids doesnt mean smacking them, if you cant get your kids to understand right from wrong with words and example your not a parents ars......!

thats very one eyed and judgemental!! you realise this 'anti smacking' thing is only a relatively recent idea (wowsers) and you'll find many other countries and cultures worldwide don't subscribe to it. people have been having kids for thousands of years and physical discipline has worked time and time again.

[left]

Originally Posted by prydey

thats very one eyed and judgemental!! you realise this 'anti smacking' thing is only a relatively recent idea (wowsers) and you'll find many other countries and cultures worldwide don't subscribe to it. people have been having kids for thousands of years and physical discipline has worked time and time again.

Why on Earth would you call someone who doesn't believe in smacking children a "wowser"? Is smacking a child fun for you? Meaning of wowser: person who is publicly critical of others and the pleasures they seek; a killjoy.

For ref I had the cr@p smacked out of me right up until I was 18. Actually I would call it abuse but my abuse and your fun seem to be the same thing. I guess I was too busy being fearful to realise how it was doing me good!

[4Vman]

Funnily enough when parents had more freedom to discipline their children "old school" there seemed to be more respect for adults, less stabbings, less reckless endangerment etc....

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by left

Why on Earth would you call someone who doesn't believe in smacking children a "wowser"? Is smacking a child fun for you? Meaning of wowser: person who is publicly critical of others and the pleasures they seek; a killjoy.

For ref I had the cr@p smacked out of me right up until I was 18. Actually I would call it abuse but my abuse and your fun seem to be the same thing. I guess I was too busy being fearful to realise how it was doing me good!

I don't think he was talking about abuse. Smacking and abuse are two VERY different things. I'm sorry that you were abused.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Funnily enough when parents had more freedom to discipline their children "old school" there seemed to be more respect for adults, less stabbings, less reckless endangerment etc....

Exactly

[prydey]

Originally Posted by left

Why on Earth would you call someone who doesn't believe in smacking children a "wowser"?

maybe the same reason someone would call someone who does believe in smacking 'not a parents ars...'


or did you not read the quoted bit?

why is abuse and discipline always associated by assumption. i like how you infer that i abuse my kids.

people often say there is a fine line between discipline and abuse. i don't agree. i think there is a gaping chasm. phsychologists and media will have you believe they are almost the same thing.

anyway, this is getting off topic. i'll stick with 'old school'. its well proven and my kids love me for it.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by Cheese3

I'm 22 and so called "GEN-Y" but I always had my old man saying "if I catch you damaging property ect ect, I'll knock your block off" and he did knock my block very well afew times! I have nothing against my old man, I love him to bits, and I beleive what he did turned me into a more responsible and mature person!

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Funnily enough when parents had more freedom to discipline their children "old school" there seemed to be more respect for adults, less stabbings, less reckless endangerment etc....

This is how I was brought up also. A swift kick in the ****, followed by a wooden spoon, and when I verbally stepped over the line, the old soap bar was introduced.

You need to be scared of something before you will respect it.
It's like learning that fire is hot at an early age. You touch fire, it hurts like hell, you dont touch it again.
There's no-one around saying what the fire did was too harsh and that person had a bad day so it shouldnt hurt as much. Fire delivers its full 'punishment', if you will, any and every time.

[Corzza]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

The previous thread on this was closed due to it going miles off track... I do think the discovery that this guy was nearly FOUR times the limit DOES put an entire new perspective on this tragedy! Absolute lunacy, really!

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...iver-was-drunk

Explains a lot

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Funnily enough when parents had more freedom to discipline their children "old school" there seemed to be more respect for adults, less stabbings, less reckless endangerment etc....

Haha I'm only 18 and Mum used to threaten us with the rolling pin or the wooden spoon, Dad had a killer smack, I remember one time he left his massive red hand print across my ar$e and Mum freaked out.

[GT]

Had a girl (on L plates, 16 years old) and a man (think it is her Dad) killed just down from my place this morning. Straight open piece of road, fantastic conditions and for some weird reason she drove straight into the truck causing a massive head on. The truck was loaded to the hilt with enormous concrete pipes so the occupants in the 4 wheel drive didn't have a prayer. Has the world gone tipsy turvey?

I feel so stunned and again feeling for another local family that must be beside themselves at this moment. All my neighbours were phoning their family members to make sure they weren't the ones dead as information wasn't available at that point. Just awful.

No answers to this one - responsible parenting didn't help this situation, doubtful alcohol involved - bad stuff just happens. Very sad week for so many people.

GT

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by GT

Had a girl (on L plates, 16 years old) and a man (think it is her Dad) killed just down from my place this morning. Straight open piece of road, fantastic conditions and for some weird reason she drove straight into the truck causing a massive head on. The truck was loaded to the hilt with enormous concrete pipes so the occupants in the 4 wheel drive didn't have a prayer. Has the world gone tipsy turvey?

I feel so stunned and again feeling for another local family that must be beside themselves at this moment. All my neighbours were phoning their family members to make sure they weren't the ones dead as information wasn't available at that point. Just awful.

No answers to this one - responsible parenting didn't help this situation, doubtful alcohol involved - bad stuff just happens. Very sad week for so many people.

GT

Absolutely terrible news... but there will be a reason it happened... someone will be responsible for this.... it wont be an "accident" unless the girl or truck driver had a heart attack or lost consciousness while driving..

[GT]

From what I've been told, the truck driver was not at fault (but hey, we hear gossip all the time). The truckie is injured but OK - well physically. He is apparently hysterical and so distressed - who wouldn't be.

Yes Norm, there will be a reason. I just find it frustrating that you get perfect conditions, adult teaching a young person to drive and it goes pear shaped. Maybe we need these L plate drivers and inexperienced drivers only allowed on certain roads - not the 100km highways. I don't know anymore.

GT