FORD technical service bulletin : ICC touch screen display - Page 4

JasonACT · 08-10-2019, 06:08 PM

1/ Pretty sure they are compatible, mine reconfigured itself as a Territory model by accident.
2/ No, I didn't have to "code" it to my car (the radio-part requires that though) it "just works".

JasonACT · 08-10-2019, 06:13 PM

Try and get one with the same number of climate control zones as you have!

XRPete · 08-10-2019, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonACT

Try and get one with the same number of climate control zones as you have!

I have a single zone, will it not work if it doesnt match?

JasonACT · 08-10-2019, 06:44 PM

The fan buttons are on the left in single zone models, they are in the middle for dual zone models. The LCD unit is coded to read the buttons in the particular position for the zone programming, but the button circuit boards are identical.

So, you would have to modify your buttons to include the "middle" fan rocker button if you got the wrong one (which is what I did). So I've got a passenger temp button that does nothing! (Until I re-program my HIM to dual mode and buy the extra components to add in the 2nd AC/Heater mixer unit.. still might do that, except I rarely have a passenger - so it's low priority.)

XRPete · 08-10-2019, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonACT

Ok, this shows damage to the physical circuit board, can you re-check it?

The 11.89v comes from pin 5 on the large connector, it goes to the MOSFET and the voltage regulator's V-In (the one I think runs the front button LEDs). It also directly goes to pin 8 on the LE80 (the one directly across from pin 1, to the right). If that is only measuring mv, then the board has suffered a trace meltdown. The trace is in the layers of the circuit board (top and bottom of this board are generally grounded with very few traces).

I've seen it before, but really, it shouldn't happen with such low value components - which is why I'm asking you to re-check. You "could" solder in a thin strand of wire (in case it's going to blow like a fuse) to see if you can get the 8v working again? I don't want to suggest bad things to do, but unless you start pulling out components (that show a problem) and replace them - this is what I might do (to be honest, I thought about your 9v battery idea, but wasn't going to mention it because of this very concern).

Since this part isn't working, we really need to get it sorted first. The 8v may supply voltage to the other bits which cascade through the unit - and this one is "up front" because the 2 others are (/were, poor MOSFET) running off the 12v which is working.

Ok, so i use an new grounding point in the car. and the 3 pin mosfet which i thought i blew, is reading at I (on) key position 11.89v @ top pin and 21.70v on the bottom give or take some mv's.

On the II (accessories) and (Running engine) key position, i was getting 14.35v @ top pin and 10.30v on the bottom give or take some mv's.

so that bottom pin is getting a 10v drop while the can is switch to accessories/running position. so i assume this is why the display inst turning on. - see attached image

From memories I (on) position allows the radio to still play but no screen in normal circumstances. and when you put the key into the II (accessories) or Engine Start (running position) the display turns on.

the 8 pin chip LE80 is still giving me 8mv at the top left pin (white dot), opposite that was 7.1mv and the rest were giving me under 5mv.

the big 5 pin one is now giving me mv's at all pins too.

both chips didn't vary with the car running or at the I (ON) position

P.s how do you paste images to the post? i can attach, but when i paste it comes up as text.

JasonACT · 08-10-2019, 08:25 PM

I don't paste images, I upload them to my photo gallery and edit the thumbnail link to remove the "thumbs/" bit so the full image shows.

You can see the large circuit board trace going from the part you say has power, to the one you say doesn't have power:

Is it burned out?

XRPete · 08-10-2019, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonACT

I don't paste images, I upload them to my photo gallery and edit the thumbnail link to remove the "thumbs/" bit so the full image shows.

You can see the large circuit board trace going from the part you say has power, to the one you say doesn't have power:

image

Is it burned out?

The trace doesn't look burnt out.

JasonACT · 08-10-2019, 08:55 PM

Does your multimeter have a buzzer to tell you when the resistance is low enough to consider it basically a wire? I think it needs to be properly tested / re-connected - and the connection also wired to the LE80's pin 8.

I think I'm out of ideas otherwise. Other than to say, I think it's this board... So even if you get a dual zone replacement, you can use your LCD with the replacements smaller board (the one in the picture) and be safe that you will have the correct # of zones.

JasonACT · 08-10-2019, 10:36 PM

I think I see the problem:

JasonACT · 08-10-2019, 10:49 PM

For the record, I've reported XRPete as being a bogus user. R173 are different resistors in his posts.

JasonACT · 08-10-2019, 11:34 PM

Please disregard all information in this thread for the last 24 hours. It's unreliable, and I want to do the right thing by the public, even if others (no names) don't care.

XRPete · 08-10-2019, 11:47 PM

Im sorry but i am not a bogus user, nor have a been bogus in anyway.

im not sure why you are saying that?

below is a full picture of my board, please advise what you are seeing thats different.

www.fordforums.com.au/photos/showfull.php?photo=74802

JasonACT · 08-10-2019, 11:53 PM

Count the holes in the heat sink that the 5 pin large chip covers. One has 4, one has 5 and this latest one has 6.

See you later, buddy. (Not to mention the angle of the large 5 pin chip in each. Or the faded part number in one photo. Or the solder base vs the reglator offset / mask in all 3! Go away.)

XRPete · 09-10-2019, 12:09 AM

Im not here to waste anyone time, and i am very grateful for the help you have provided me. but i am not bogus, i have be honest and truthful in ever post.

you are comparing 1 photo that was cropped and un-cropped, and at different angles.

i literately just took these last photos and uploaded them to show you a shot for shot comparison with flash on and without. see below.

my apologies if you feel that i have wasted your time or if ive miss lead you in any way..

with flash

without flash

JasonACT · 09-10-2019, 12:26 AM

I'll let the moderators decide (or the public) as they are very similar boards, I agree, yet different enough in spectacular ways. So I'm not going to entertain further effort on this unless a long standing member says they can see how I've got it wrong (which is quite possible, I'm known for it).

XRPete · 09-10-2019, 12:31 AM

Ok, thank you Jason...

and if i do end up buying a the screen from the wreckers, which probably will end up doing.

I am more than happy to send you this one, if you want have a tinker with it.

once again, apologies to you and everyone, if i have cause any problems here..

**Captain Stubing** · 09-10-2019, 12:38 AM

Stand down, JasonACT. XRPete appears to be posting in good faith from what I see, with no bogus intentions.

Continue with the research.

JasonACT · 09-10-2019, 12:46 AM

Ok, thanks Swanny. I apologise, I hope XRPete, you find your solution and cheaply! I'll answer any other questions you have, if I can.

XRPete · 09-10-2019, 01:16 AM

Thank you Swanny and JasonACT, and my apologies once again.

JasonACT, thank you very for your help so far, I really do appreciate it.
I’ll advise over the next couple of days what action I’ll take with this screen, whether I purchase a second hand one from this wrecker (SA Auto Spares).

JasonACT · 09-10-2019, 01:41 AM

To be honest (and I'm going to bed as soon I post this) I've got to hand it to you, for taking photos that show the same thing, but in such a different way each time. You are an artist, even if you didn't mean it. Don't apologise.

JasonACT · 09-10-2019, 09:23 AM

The guys at work here are having a laugh, half of them say "different" the other half say it's just the angle. So, I apologise again!

JasonACT · 09-10-2019, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRPete

Ok, so i use an new grounding point in the car. and the 3 pin mosfet which i thought i blew, is reading at I (on) key position 11.89v @ top pin and 21.70v on the bottom give or take some mv's.

On the II (accessories) and (Running engine) key position, i was getting 14.35v @ top pin and 10.30v on the bottom give or take some mv's.

so that bottom pin is getting a 10v drop while the can is switch to accessories/running position. so i assume this is why the display inst turning on. - see attached image

From memories I (on) position allows the radio to still play but no screen in normal circumstances. and when you put the key into the II (accessories) or Engine Start (running position) the display turns on.

the 8 pin chip LE80 is still giving me 8mv at the top left pin (white dot), opposite that was 7.1mv and the rest were giving me under 5mv.

the big 5 pin one is now giving me mv's at all pins too.

both chips didn't vary with the car running or at the I (ON) position

P.s how do you paste images to the post? i can attach, but when i paste it comes up as text.

My car has 4 key positions. 0 is off and the key can be inserted and removed. I is accessories, and the screen turns on for me. II is ignition and the dashboard lights up. III is start, which returns to II on a spring.

If you've got 11.89v and 21.7v while the key is in position I then that's what I've got on my bench. I've not measured it any other way (in the car / changing key positions) as I didn't seem to need to.

I'm sceptical the reading on the large 5 pin device is correct, the trace is not burnt anywhere, and I've seen what happens on one that large when it pops. I'd suggest testing again (except you may be sick of pulling it out now, dealing with difficult forum members, and just want to get it sorted at ~$300).

The 8v regulator, well, I feel bad about giving you a hard time, so I desoldered the 8v output on mine and it still turns on, lights up and displays everything normally. If it's not getting power on yours though, maybe other things are also not getting power. Connecting power to it with a wire may pass the power on to the other things?

It actually makes sense, because I said I didn't think a 100mA thing like this would blow the trace - but if more things are using it, then yes, that's more reasonable.

JasonACT · 09-10-2019, 05:24 PM

U170 (says "AOE B A1" mine says "AOE I AH" - I can't find any data on these) has R1304 which also has the same 12v input on the trace going between the two. C173 has 21v on the trace going between those two. I suspect this device generates the higher voltage, but that's a total guess.

That would be a difficult part to desolder and replace, even if you could order them. It might be a case of creating a new circuit to replace it, which is getting vastly more difficult. I'll have to see what devices there are like what I think it is.

raceteam · 09-10-2019, 05:38 PM

Various publications indicate these were made by Sumitomo Australia. Don't suppose they would supply schematics?

JasonACT · 09-10-2019, 05:49 PM

They would know for sure what the problem is and how to fix it, but as Ford sends the units "away" (probably to them) and charges $2300 - I don't like the odds of getting either bits of information out of them. Can't hurt to ask I guess?

JasonACT · 09-10-2019, 05:54 PM

One other thing about the screens, if you plug them in to the car and don't wait 30 seconds (for the 2014 firmware - probably the same time for the 2012 one too) before turning the key to accessories, then the screen may not turn on at all.

This is because the start up CAN BUS command may not be sent at the right time (the device needs to be properly booted up). I think I saw the same thing with the Forscan reset command - the screen rebooted, but it didn't turn on until I switched off everything with the key, and back on.

XRPete · 09-10-2019, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonACT

My car has 4 key positions. 0 is off and the key can be inserted and removed. I is accessories, and the screen turns on for me. II is ignition and the dashboard lights up. III is start, which returns to II on a spring.

If you've got 11.89v and 21.7v while the key is in position I then that's what I've got on my bench. I've not measured it any other way (in the car / changing key positions) as I didn't seem to need to.

I'm sceptical the reading on the large 5 pin device is correct, the trace is not burnt anywhere, and I've seen what happens on one that large when it pops. I'd suggest testing again (except you may be sick of pulling it out now, dealing with difficult forum members, and just want to get it sorted at ~$300).

The 8v regulator, well, I feel bad about giving you a hard time, so I desoldered the 8v output on mine and it still turns on, lights up and displays everything normally. If it's not getting power on yours though, maybe other things are also not getting power. Connecting power to it with a wire may pass the power on to the other things?

It actually makes sense, because I said I didn't think a 100mA thing like this would blow the trace - but if more things are using it, then yes, that's more reasonable.

Hi Jason, thank you so much for your help mate.
Don't feel bad, you were doing what you thought was right for the people of this forum and i didn't take it to heart.

At this point, have just the 2 SWS Australia boards plugged into the car, so i can control the radio volume and the A/C, and i made it connect/disconnect and test.

Ill see how i go for further testing over the next couple of days, as i have a couple of appointment tonight and tomorrow night, but willing to continue researching and testing from Friday onward.

What i find strange about this fault, is that although all seems to wont without the display except for the power button, it really makes me think "could this be a firmware issue", just a thought. as i assume these would have some sort of programming to them, or a bios?

I come from more of a PC hardware background, so we i see issues like this on motherboards, bios resets or flashes tend to fix bios post issues.

what do you think?

XRPete · 09-10-2019, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raceteam

Various publications indicate these were made by Sumitomo Australia. Don't suppose they would supply schematics?

I took this screen-shot from the SWS Australia website, they must of partnered with sumitomo or something to make these ICCs. they also have a link to the sumitomo website too.

I was considering on calling SWS Australia and see if maybe they could shed some light on this issue.

http://www.swsa.com.au
https://global-sei.com

JasonACT · 09-10-2019, 06:58 PM

My thoughts on the two boards are this:

There is little difference in the front buttons on the FG and the FG2 - so Ford probably said "we're not changing anything physically, don't stuff us around - we just need more tech features". So the smaller board does a lot of what the most basic FG has (it's got a clock chip, microcontroller, lots of power regulators, the buttons connector and associated parts to connect them to the microcontroller).

The large board, that's just the touch-screen controller, video, sound and CPU. I say "just" but that's really a lot too.

Because the two things are separated, I can understand why most of the buttons continue to work - the little microcontroller on the smaller board is probably doing most of that work - and it won't really support or need a bios reset type thing.

Having said that, I only see one main regulator on the large board (3.3v) - sure it's got the choke and a couple of large caps - but it is more likely that the numerous power regulators on the small board are the problem. The backlight isn't going to work off 3.3v. Your missing 8v is sort-of confirmation, if the V-in is missing then the board is toast and needs some sort of repair. That's why it was important to check the red and black wires first, I thought.

I saw that web site too, and the familiar LCD screen shot

I think it's worth contacting SWS - please point them to this forum thread, they should be made aware we are talking about them, and it could be good PR for them too.

JasonACT · 10-10-2019, 07:18 PM

I'm afraid we're going to have to stop testing until that MOSFET is replaced...

I've disconnected my gate input, MOSFETs are basically driven by a capacitor that you charge via the gate - power in that cap switches the device on.

What I've found through testing while I have no gate input connected is, the screen doesn't turn on. The large and small CPU do. Everything works except the screen. I can't even see lines or a faint image using a torch.

Then I charge the MOSFETs cap by connecting it and then disconnect the gate again.. the cap remains charged (as they do) and the screen backlight turns on and stays on... until the cap finally discharges after a lot of time. Then the screen turns off and remains off. Everything else continues to work - recharge the cap again - screen turns back on and it's displaying the same as it should.