XR5 vs MPS vs GTi vs WRX

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by B-Series

How long have you owned your Clio for again? How many km has it travelled? My mate's dad works with Renaults and knows how unreliable they are from first hand experience. His experiences are based on many cars and not just one... French engineering = :. Besides, Renault has a very poor reputation.

Had my Clio for 7 months. Its done 20,000km in my hands (would be double that had it not been run into by an XF who crossed into my lane going the opposite direction and spent time at a panel beaters). My best friend has had his Clio for 3 years. Funny that Renault has a bad reputation yet is the world's #5 automaker without a North American market share (which 1-2-3-4 have).

Originally Posted by B-Series

My comment about the Clio does have an element of truth about it. . Yes, you are correct the purpose is obvious.

It can't have truth to it since it is based 100% on opinion. Truth implies fact. Opinion isn't fact.

Originally Posted by B-Series

14.4 is quite impressive but the new WRX is a little faster thanks to AWD. The MPS is a lot faster - try 13.9 @ 100-101 mph. Yes, straight line acceleration is not everything, but it's bloody important for a performance car. Oh I almost forgot... the MPS and the WRX also can do corners too.

You spoke as if it was lacking in straight line ability. It isn't. Impressive MPS3 time, by the way.

[B-Series]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Had my Clio for 7 months. Its done 20,000km in my hands (would be double that had it not been run into by an XF who crossed into my lane going the opposite direction and spent time at a panel beaters). My best friend has had his Clio for 3 years. Funny that Renault has a bad reputation yet is the world's #5 automaker without a North American market share (which 1-2-3-4 have).

You are saying that Renaults are reliable because you've driven a whopping 20,000km without fault? My cousin has a Subaru Liberty which has done 200,000km without fault. Does that also mean that Subaru is reliable Steffo? Renault has always had a poor reliability record - and that's a fact. You may have had a perfectly blissful experience (albeit only 20,000km) with your Renault. That doesn't change the fact that the average Renault will experience far more quality and reliability problems than the average car.

Originally Posted by Steffo

It can't have truth to it since it is based 100% on opinion. Truth implies fact. Opinion isn't fact.

Well some opinions are more valid than others. Here's an example: say that you honestly believe that your Clio 172 is the sexiest car on the planet. That's your opinion... It's just that nobody in their right mind would agree with you.

Originally Posted by Steffo

I know my Clio can beat a VX/VU SS to 110km/h because I've done it before. More then once. Amongst many factors, gearing helps, since I can hold both first and second gear longer then they can.

Motor magazine reached 0-100 in 6.3 seconds in a VX SS. Like you said, Motor can't drive for nuts. So based on that logic a VX SS should be faster than that? Your Clio 172 would be hard pressed to crack 100kph in less that 7 seconds. You may have beaten a VX SS on the street - but that doesn't mean that your Clio can accelerate faster to 100 than a properly driven VX SS. Perhaps the SS driver stuffed up his launch or had a slighly slower reaction time? Perhaps he couldn't drive properly because he was too busy laughing at your ugly Clio?

Originally Posted by Steffo

Toyota's are unreliable in every experience I've had with them.

No Toyotas unreliable because you have a personal vendetta against them. As you will recall I made a joke a while back which turned out to be more or less true. You hate Toyota because of an event which happened when you were a kid that left you traumatised. That event has left you mentally scarred and as a result you feel that it is your patriotic duty to take vengence on Toyota.

Let me give you a bit of advice... Toyotas are only cars Steffo. Perhaps you should blame the people responsible for the accident rather than Toyotas which are merely inanimate objects?

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by B-Series

You are saying that Renaults are reliable because you've driven a whopping 20,000km without fault? My cousin has a Subaru Liberty which has done 200,000km without fault. Does that also mean that Subaru is reliable Steffo? Renault has always had a poor reliability record - and that's a fact. You may have had a perfectly blissful experience (albeit only 20,000km) with your Renault. That doesn't change the fact that the average Renault will experience far more quality and reliability problems than the average car.

"The average Renault will experience far more quality and reliability problems then the average car," is no more factual then any one of us promoting or demoting the reliability of any other car.

I could talk about Renaults I've seen while in Europe, but I won't, since I was young then, young enough not to know jack about cars at the time, so any specifics would be impossible.

Originally Posted by B-Series

Well some opinions are more valid than others. Here's an example: say that you honestly believe that your Clio 172 is the sexiest car on the planet. That's your opinion... It's just that nobody in their right mind would agree with you.

When it comes to the way something looks, no opinion can be more valid then any other. When it comes to say, a scientific argument, two scientists opinions will obviously be more valid then two joe six-pack opinions. Looks, styling etc are one of those things that are 100% subjective and have nothing to do with fact. I love the way my Clio 172 looks. Far from being the sexiest car in the world (a title I personally believe belongs either to the F430 Coupe or new 911 Turbo Coupe), but I think it looks good. You obviously don't. See, different opinion.

Originally Posted by B-Series

Motor magazine reached 0-100 in 6.3 seconds in a VX SS. Like you said, Motor can't drive for nuts. So based on that logic a VX SS should be faster than that? Your Clio 172 would be hard pressed to crack 100kph in less that 7 seconds. You may have beaten a VX SS on the street - but that doesn't mean that your Clio can accelerate faster to 100 than a properly driven VX SS. Perhaps the SS driver stuffed up his launch or had a slighly slower reaction time? Perhaps he couldn't drive properly because he was too busy laughing at your ugly Clio?

You talk about intelligence and then go on about "The Clio is hard pressed to hit 100km/h in less then 7 sec?" Try again. Various overseas publications have had them hitting 100km/h in the 6.5-6.6 sec range, and so far I have yet to see a motoring publication's figures that have not been beatable by someone at a drag strip with their own factory car. They're on a far closer ground in a sprint to 100km/h then you give them credit for. My statements have always been can beat, not will always beat. Can does not imply that it is a definite outcome. There are many, many variables that affect how well a car performs... if Car A can hit 100 in 5.0 sec and do the 1/4 in 13.0 and Car B does it in 5.5 and 13.5, all things perfect Car A is much faster... however Car B can beat it, depending on circumstances... not the best example, but hopefully you get my point.

Making fun of my car in the last line, *sigh.* Do you not learn?

Originally Posted by B-Series

No Toyotas unreliable because you have a personal vendetta against them. As you will recall I made a joke a while back which turned out to be more or less true. You hate Toyota because of an event which happened when you were a kid that left you traumatised. That event has left you mentally scarred and as a result you feel that it is your patriotic duty to take vengence on Toyota.

Let me give you a bit of advice... Toyotas are only cars Steffo. Perhaps you should blame the people responsible for the accident rather than Toyotas which are merely inanimate objects?

In that situation (I'm not going into much detail), anything with superior saftey features to the Corolla would have prevented the outcome. ABS brakes, an airbag or a structure sound enough to withstand the impact (the Corolla's engine was pushed into the rear of the dash and the dash further into the cabin... paper cup structural integrity at work). And going by the age of the car (1988 model), a Falcon or Commodore of similar vintage would have been sufficient.

Unreliable examples?
Taxi (Avalon 3.0 V6) at my old man's base that went from brand new to falling to pieces in 8 months.
Hiace where I used to work (2000 model, 90,000km) with bits falling off, totally rooted suspension, ailing mechanically.
Corolla 1.4 1990 model a good mate used to own. Left him stranded 7 times in 6 months.
Soarer 2.5 Twin Turbo a family friend owned... wasn't too good in the driveline department.
Supra SZ 3.0 N/A a friend owns... constant fuel system issues, been through a few fuel pumps now and a new set of injectors.

All I can think of at the top of my head right now. When I say that I have had bad experiences with them... I actually mean, I have had bad experiences with them. That and combined with the structural integrity of a paper cup (a mate's dad's new Yaris YRX shows that, as did the 07 Camry rentacar I had a few months ago) give me zero faith. Others may think differentley, that's an entitlement. There's also an entitlement for me to say... this is what I think of these cars, etc etc... without having some keyboard warrior jump down my throat throwing various insults at me for it. When I have done nothing of the sort to them. Wouldn't you agree?

[Bent8]

Ahh easy decision here mate, go the XR5T......because it's a Ford

[B-Series]

In perfect conditions, a Renault Clio 172 may be able to hit 100kph in the very high 6s. A Clio 172 reaching 100 in 6.5 seconds? Keep dreaming. :

You have clearly stated that your Clio is faster than a VX SS as if it is a known fact. Would you like me to find that post so I can make you look like a fool again? So what if your unreliable Clio can beat a VX SS? - big achievement (sarcasm). Even a 6cyl na Falcon could achieve that if the SS got off to a crap start.

You obviously aren't very bright and have missed my point once again. Since you obviously haven't had the benefit of an education, I will attempted to get the point across with a rudimentary example. Now we'll take it nice and slow so you can follow...

"A Hyundai Excel is sexier than a 911 Turbo Coupe". That is my opinion. Can you honestly say that you respect my opinion even though you may not agree with it? Can you honestly say that my opinion is just as equally valid as your opinion? The answer is no - not all opinions are equally valid or convincing. You can harp on about how much you like the look of your Clio. Honestly, that's about as convincing as me saying that my Excel is sexier that a 911 Turbo Coupe.

My uncle has a 3.0L Vienta with 220,000km and that has run without fault. Another uncle had a 2.2L Camry CSX and that also ran without fault.
My mate's parents own a 2.2L Camry CSX and a 2.4L Altise. He drives both of them like a maniac and they are still running like new. So there you go. Every car manufacturer is bound to have a few bad examples and not all Toyotas are perfect. Also, much is dependent on how the car has been maintained. However, that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of Toyotas are generally very reliable cars. Besides, Toyota always gets top marks for reliability and Renault is consistently somewhere at the bottom. I know it pains you to hear that. :

I still can't get over the fact that the guy who reckons Toyotas are unreliable drives a Renault. The French are only just above the Russians but below the Koreans when it comes to reliability.

As far as safety is concerned, the current Toyota model line up is at least on par with the competition. Don't believe me? Look at the facts. So Toyota is not the evil childhood tormentor you make it out to be. Toyota is merely a humble manufacturer which makes boring, reliable and reasonably safe transport for people sick of their Renaults falling to bits. :

Originally Posted by Steffo

There's also an entitlement for me to say... this is what I think of these cars, etc etc... without having some keyboard warrior jump down my throat throwing various insults at me for it. When I have done nothing of the sort to them. Wouldn't you agree?

Big fail with that post buddy. While I may be a 'keyboard warrior' you are equally as guilty as me. Isn't that right Mr. 3000+ posts? . You state your opinion as if it is fact. When people state their differing opinions you indirectly insult them and show little respect for their opinions. You refuse to back down as if your opinion is fact and cannot be debated. Well now you have a taste of your own medicine. Not pleasant is it?

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by B-Series

In perfect conditions, a Renault Clio 172 may be able to hit 100kph in the very high 6s. A Clio 172 reaching 100 in 6.5 seconds? Keep dreaming. :

EVO did it in 6.6. And it is repeatable and can be bettered. You're in no position to tell me what it can and can't do either way. Do you own one? Have you driven one? Have you driven one in a spirited fashion? Haven you even been in one?

Originally Posted by B-Series

You have clearly stated that your Clio is faster than a VX SS as if it is a known fact. Would you like me to find that post so I can make you look like a fool again? So what if your unreliable Clio can beat a VX SS? - big achievement (sarcasm). Even a 6cyl na Falcon could achieve that if the SS got off to a crap start.

The attempts to bait in this post are hilarious. FYI, N/A 6-cyl Falcon is a very broad term. A BF/BFII XT is in VX SS hunting territory stock - Drive.com.au's 14.593 @ 154.2km/h in a stock BFII XT is testament to that. At the same time, you could take a stocker 2.4L XK that won't beat an SS even if the SS starts in third. Be specific. :p

Originally Posted by B-Series

You obviously aren't very bright and have missed my point once again. Since you obviously haven't had the benefit of an education, I will attempted to get the point across with a rudimentary example. Now we'll take it nice and slow so you can follow...

"A Hyundai Excel is sexier than a 911 Turbo Coupe". That is my opinion. Can you honestly say that you respect my opinion even though you may not agree with it? Can you honestly say that my opinion is just as equally valid as your opinion? The answer is no - not all opinions are equally valid or convincing. You can harp on about how much you like the look of your Clio. Honestly, that's about as convincing as me saying that my Excel is sexier that a 911 Turbo Coupe.

The education remark deserves no reply, but as for the rest of it... looks are subject to opinion only. There is no "higher validity," when judging how something looks. It will always vary from each individual to each individual.

Originally Posted by B-Series

My uncle has a 3.0L Vienta with 220,000km and that has run without fault. Another uncle had a 2.2L Camry CSX and that also ran without fault.
My mate's parents own a 2.2L Camry CSX and a 2.4L Altise. He drives both of them like a maniac and they are still running like new. So there you go. Every car manufacturer is bound to have a few bad examples and not all Toyotas are perfect. Also, much is dependent on how the car has been maintained. However, that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of Toyotas are generally very reliable cars. Besides, Toyota always gets top marks for reliability and Renault is consistently somewhere at the bottom. I know it pains you to hear that. :

Doesn't "pain," me to hear anything. Nothing is wrong with my car and nothing will be wrong with my car any time soon. Its funny that despite Renault being so 'notoriously bad,' they are the owner of Nissan, the same people running the show in each company, #5 car manufacturer in the world when you count Renault(Nissan) and #9 on its own, profiting where GM and Ford are in deficit and selling in excess of 2.4 million (2,492,470 last year) vehicles a year. Surely if they were so nasty, no one would buy them? Its also worth nothing that the Renault Clio is the second highest selling car in Europe, the world's second largest car market and largest car manufacturing continent. But oh wait, the cars suck, so why do people buy them? It can't be because they're the cheapest... even in their home market they're more expensive then say, a Ford Fiesta. http://cars.uk.msn.com/News/Top_ten_...mentid=2620300

It is true that each maker has its duds and its stellar example... but I find it a funny case of double standards that you give me grief for ragging on Toyota, yet are happy to do it to another car manufacturer.

Originally Posted by B-Series

I still can't get over the fact that the guy who reckons Toyotas are unreliable drives a Renault. The French are only just above the Russians but below the Koreans when it comes to reliability.

Mmm... yeah, the Russians are bad at making reliable cars? That's why they're all over Eastern Europe doing hundreds upon thousands of kilometres without missing a beat? They may be unrefined, dynamically as exciting as a calculator, in alot of cases ugly, thirsty and lack anything resembling creature comforts... but they're also bulletproof. Good to see you are easily taken by popular stereotypes though.

Oh wait... lots of people buy French cars too. In fact, PSA Peugeot-Citroen is the #6 car manufacturer in the world with 3,356,859 new cars sold in 2006 and the Peugeot 307 was the 8th most sold car in Europe in 2006. But I guess that totals what, combining PSA and Renault sales... nearly 6 million cars between the two companies in total sold in 2006... and going on for a similar result in 2007... but wait, they're bad, unreliable cars... so why do people buy them?

Originally Posted by B-Series

As far as safety is concerned, the current Toyota model line up is at least on par with the competition. Don't believe me? Look at the facts. So Toyota is not the evil childhood tormentor you make it out to be. Toyota is merely a humble manufacturer which makes boring, reliable and reasonably safe transport for people sick of their Renaults falling to bits. :

Don't even try to compete with Renault when it comes to saftey. You're in for an epic fail there. The old Clio had a 4.5/5 star NCAP rating. The new one has 5/5 stars. The Megane has 5/5 stars. The Renault Laguna has 5/5 stars. The Renault Espace has 5/5 stars. I could keep going if you like?

But yeah, those Renault's falling to bits must be why a continent has the Clio as their second most sold car whilst a Toyota doesn't register in the top 10 list.

It seems by looking at sales figures that Japanese manufacturers have strangle holds on markets that don't have their own strong local product. In Australia for example, we only have the big family sedan... and they haven't managed to knock Falcon and Commodore off their pedestal just yet, even with locally manufactured large alternatives.

In North America they dominate market segments the Americans can't compete in. Honda Civic was the most sold car in the US in 2006 if that shows anything. And their Camry/Accord sized stuff is high on the top 10 list.

Off to Europe - the cradle of the car and oh my... dominance zero. Either everyone in Europe is an idiot or? I mean you could use the good old Europeans are biased to their own thing line... but it doesn't seem to apply to the US, who has (at the rate its going, it will soon be 'had,') a very large domestic car industry. Going very OT here... but it seems I'm not alone in thinking Japanese cars play second fiddle to German, French and Italian ones. It seems an entire continent agrees with me.

Originally Posted by B-Series

Big fail with that post buddy. While I may be a 'keyboard warrior' you are equally as guilty as me. Isn't that right Mr. 3000+ posts? . You state your opinion as if it is fact. When people state their differing opinions you indirectly insult them and show little respect for their opinions. You refuse to back down as if your opinion is fact and cannot be debated. Well now you have a taste of your own medicine. Not pleasant is it?

I make a point of not insulting people. I leave everything I say open to anyone's interperetation, just as is happening now with you. My opinion is not fact. Alot of it is based on fact, and in some cases it is fact simply because I agree with what is fact in said situations. However in one thing you are very right - refuse to back down. I actually find that an admireable trait in people, those who refuse to back down regardless of situation.

A taste of my own medicine? :

I do not go out deliberately trying to e-fight someone repetiadley. You do. You have been as of late. That alone makes it impossible for me to be 'equally as guilty,' of being a 'keyboard warrior,' as yourself. The fact that you have deliberately been going from thread to thread to argue with me, resorting to childish, blatant offensive and insulting posting an so on and so forth cements your "keyboard warrior," status, as it were.

One must wonder if you are this condescending in real life, or does the bravery only come out behind the computer monitor with the trusty keyboard at hand?

[T-BOOST]

For god sake take your arguing to your pm's so we dont have to sift through this garbage to see what people's opinions are on WHAT THIS THREAD IS ACTUALLY FOR.

Anywho, my personal opinion is that the XR5 looks the best. but what is it you actually want? or what is it you favour? Looks, go, performance or practicality?

For me
looks -XR5 ( it's a Ford )
go -MPS 3 (doesn't look much differant to the standard from memory)
performance -GTI (the original hot hatch)
practicality -non of the above

[Disciple]

I said about 3 pages ago Steffo would ruin the thread and look what happened. :togo:

[AusM]

Originally Posted by Nevermind

Are there many options as far as modifications with the XR5?

Plenty, but you'll probably have to get it from the UK under 'FocusST'. Huge industry over there... have a look around www.fordxr5turbo.com (aus car club) for details.

[russellw]

Enough already. If you two wish to continue your personal battle of the egos then do so via the PM system rather than in this thread.

Russ

[Bossxr8]

French cars are always unreliable. They are always at the bottom of all the quality surveys, including Top Gears. Just because one has been reliable doesn't mean millions of others will be.

[Rev28K]

I’d say that the new Renaults are better quality than the ones of up to 10 years ago. Renault have been in and out of the country a few times since the 70’s and fortunately now they look like they are back (and on a more solid financial footing). Cost sharing models with Nissan helps but I still get the feeling that they are underpricing some of there models trying to woo back buyers – their resale reputation copped a serve when they pulled out the last time (Renault 19/21?).

I’d still be slightly suss about their quality but no where near as cynical as 8-10 years ago.

Re: Honda quality - 6 years, daily driver and over 38 track days (with lap times equivalent to a stock local V8's), regular 8700 revs with no major failures. Hell even the original clutch lasted to 130,000km. I'd say that's pretty good in terms of performance, cost and quality.

[Nevermind]

Anywho....

Took a WRX for a test drive this afternoon, and have a XR5 lined up first thing in the morning.

Stepping out of my MY08 RS into the WRX was no real shock, everything's the same, inside and out (bar the hole in the bonnet). The car I drove had a total of 20km's on the dial so it was a brand spanker. I was only interested in one thing, how fast it accelerated. Having never driven a turbo'ed car before, I didnt know what was going to happen, but I did know what I wanted to happen...........

and it didn't.
While the car was quick (damn you don't stay in first gear long), in fact, first gear seemed too short. Just as the car started to get moving, you were at the top of the rev range and had to beat the cut out to second gear. I only had an opportunity to drive around in peak hour traffic in 50 and 60km/h zones which didn't help.

Maybe just maybe I might go back for another longer test drive, we'll see how the XR5 goes in comparison.

Maybe I miss my V8 just a little too much

[Piotr]

B-Series whos paying you to be so anti european car? You obviously have an agenda against them

[B-Series]

Originally Posted by Piotr

B-Series whos paying you to be so anti european car? You obviously have an agenda against them

I'm not against European cars mate. I quite like German cars and I wouldn't mind a Ferrari either. We have two Mercedes in the family. Personally, I think the Golf Gti is a fine car. It is however, tuned a little more for comfort than raw performance. In fact, it would be the best car for everyday driving. I dislike French cars though because they're ugly and unreliable. That is my opinion.

[HTCURRY]

Originally Posted by B-Series

Yes the education remark needs no reply seeing that you have none. Working in a service department obviously requires none.

Im not too fussed about you and steffo having a go at each other, its actually quite entertaining.

But you are going to lose a lot of friends really quickly, if you persist in this manner.

I think there are quite few people on the forum, working to feed a family by any means possible, that includes service department jobs(helped pay for my first car while i was at uni)

Some are doing quite well, and some not so well, but i dont think anyone likes their intelligence or perceived lack of it shoved down their throat.

Otherwise carry on and keep fighting the good fight.

[Nevermind]

Anyway, not interested in Renault or any other cars mentioned in this little argument thats been going on so that'll do boys.

Off now to test drive the XR5.....

[Nevermind]

Just got back from the test drive.... and loved it. I dont know whether it was the fact I went for a longer drive, but I just liked driving this car more. Power was nice, had the car salesman sitting next to me so I couldn't give it too much of a thrashing, but it certainly had plenty of go. It sounded great as well.

So far the XR5 is infront of the WRX with two to go....

[Rev28K]

How about the Volvo C30/S40’s. More expensive than an XR5 but you do get the option of having an auto.

If you’ve tested a WRX you may want to try a Lancer GSR when they ever come out.

[Mechan1k]

Good to hear the XR5 sounds like it is a nicer "driver's" car than the WRX.

I'll go into bat for the Golf though ... work colleague only has the 2L TDi ... but that punts along extremely quickly for what it is .... very nice to drive as well ... and the range on trips ... damn. No reliability issues with his Golf either ... drives as good as it does the day he bought it ... and that's close to 3 years ago now.

[Xitdxr]

Trying not to be to biased here, but the Golf is a fantastic car to drive. My brother has just stepped from a BF typhoon to own a Golf GTI. He did the same thing, test drove the XR5 and its not that the XR5 isnt good, but the GTI with the DSG puts a massive smile on your dial. Ask the dealership about the launch control with the DSG as well, or just look up Golf GTI launch control on youtube.

And to all you people out there that have said VW aren't reliable, I have had my Polo GTI exactly 1 year, it has 41,500kms on it, and its been subject to some pretty hard times, still a dream to drive and is more than capable of holding its own against some bigger powered cars. Knocked off a few XR5 along the way too

[theunfairadvant]

Originally Posted by Rev28K

How about the Volvo C30/S40’s. More expensive than an XR5 but you do get the option of having an auto.

If you’ve tested a WRX you may want to try a Lancer GSR when they ever come out.

Now the new Lancer EVO got 6 speed DSG transmission.

[Casablanca]

ok first of all seeing as your all on FF we should be voting xr5 all the way anyway but i thought the xr5 had it over all of them heaps of power and torque for what it is, does not torque steer unless you power it off the mark and are in the wet : all of the others (and yes i have driven them) do torque steer except the rexy because it is all wheel drive : but do any of them have the comfort levels because i know the xr5 does im 208cm tall and built big and i fit extremely comfortably with plenty of head room and leg room. i also found that in the others a) i was curled in the foetal position whilst driving and felt like i was going to get really hurt if i stopped fast : so to top it all off.

GO FORD OR GO HOME :

who would go anything else? :

[ClevlndStemer]

only a big minus to the XR5 would have to be the waiting time. I purchased mine in October (it had been initially ordered in July by the dealer but not built until october) and won't see it before Jan. IMO that is a ridiculous waiting time, I don't care what it is. We don't get the nice options (only leather), we're just thrown down the list.
If I knew back then what I do now I would have went the Mazda.

[T-BOOST]

Originally Posted by Nevermind

Just got back from the test drive.... and loved it. I dont know whether it was the fact I went for a longer drive, but I just liked driving this car more. Power was nice, had the car salesman sitting next to me so I couldn't give it too much of a thrashing, but it certainly had plenty of go. It sounded great as well.

So far the XR5 is infront of the WRX with two to go....

Thats one thing i noticed about the XR5, it sounds unreal when the pedal goes down. One of the guys from the ORSM club gave his a kickin on take off outside a car wash the other week, and it just amazed me how racey it sounded.

[Grasshoppr]

You really have to test drive them all. I did and choose the GTI with DSG. The changes are so quick its beats the manual hands down and the car has enough pick up to keep most people in this segment happy.

My heart wanted to go the XR5 but after crapy sales people, bad deals/trade in and no real oomph I left the ford dealers quite upset.

My experience with the GTI was impresssive to say the least. Sale people are spot on, great trade in price and willing to work on the price of the GTi and also gave and took me on a great drive to show how good these things really are.

This is my opinion only so refer back to the first sentence. You will be able to answer your own question after doing this, and you wont have to worry about half the comments on here from people who wouldnt know any better since they have never driven them.

Good Luck

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Xitdxr

Trying not to be to biased here, but the Golf is a fantastic car to drive. My brother has just stepped from a BF typhoon to own a Golf GTI. He did the same thing, test drove the XR5 and its not that the XR5 isnt good, but the GTI with the DSG puts a massive smile on your dial. Ask the dealership about the launch control with the DSG as well, or just look up Golf GTI launch control on youtube.

And to all you people out there that have said VW aren't reliable, I have had my Polo GTI exactly 1 year, it has 41,500kms on it, and its been subject to some pretty hard times, still a dream to drive and is more than capable of holding its own against some bigger powered cars. Knocked off a few XR5 along the way too

Is launch control standard? Do they have anti-lag aswell? That would be awesome to have standard.

[Xitdxr]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Is launch control standard? Do they have anti-lag aswell? That would be awesome to have standard.

If you get the DSG, its standard. Basically, you select Sports on the shifter, turn the ESP off, left foot brake and nail the throttle to the floor, loads up about 3000rpm and you will know what to do after that :eclipsee_

[Disciple]

Originally Posted by Xitdxr

If you get the DSG, its standard. Basically, you select Sports on the shifter, turn the ESP off, left foot brake and nail the throttle to the floor, loads up about 3000rpm and you will know what to do after that :eclipsee_

Hold on to the wheel for dear life while it torque steers all over the place?

[Grasshoppr]

Originally Posted by Disciple

Hold on to the wheel for dear life while it torque steers all over the place?

Yeah, and we all launch our rear wheel drive cars hard from the light with no hands on the steering wheel :

Yes front wheel drives have torque steer, if you are holding the wheel you wont have too many problems.