Gay Marriage in Australia?

[mcnews]

depends on your point of view. Every poll on this subject says the majority support it...

[Penelope Pitstop]

Fact is this debate has been raged before except last time it wasn't gay marriage it was interracial marriage and whether or not it should be allowed.

These days the majority of people would not bat an eyelid over a mixed race marriage or god forbid, a mixed race child...

Hopefully it wont take long before gay marriage is legalised in Australia and is just another lifestyle choice offered to us all should we want/need to choose it.

[BLUEYBA]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

That is a question that can cause a lot of arguements too. Minority groups, whilst small (hence the minority bit) can change things. There are instances right through history to support this...suffragettes being one that springs to mind.

it would cause alot of arguments. another question then comes to mind is can all minorities then demand that a law be changed to suit there needs?
again just putting it out there for discussion. if inappropriate please remove mods as i don't mean to offend

[BLUEYBA]

Originally Posted by mcnews

depends on your point of view. Every poll on this subject says the majority support it...

true but remember the saying there are lies, damn lies and statistics. until we as individuals get a chance to vote on this we will never get a real idea who the majority is.
polls can be doctored and the sample taken are only a small percentage of the population. Politicians shouldn't be making this decision the people of Aus should be. Maybe at the next Federal election

[Geez Louise]

Post deleted....It was off topic.. kind of and could be seen as political anyway. Sorry

[BLUEYBA]

Originally Posted by Geez Louise

BLUEYBA, it is the same question only worded differently.

Would greenpeace supporters be considered a minority group now? Everyone knows about them, everyone knows what they stand for and yet...They are indeed still considered a minority group.

i can see where you're coming from. gotta go now but this has been a really good discussion. very balanced and calm but i hope i didn't upset anyone with my posts as this was not my intention. thanks all

[ebxr8240]

Gay marriage or same sex marriage is like a two wheel trike..
There's no such thing..

[FalconForce]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Maybe there should be a poll??

ill do it now

[Streets]

Originally Posted by BLUEYBA

So if the gay community is a minority should we be changing something for a minority???? This is just a question. just wanted to see what people thought about it

I think yes, we should be. There is nothing wrong with changing something to benefit a minority.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Streets

I think yes, we should be. There is nothing wrong with changing something to benefit a minority.

We have on many occasions already in this great land of ours.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Streets

What is it taking away from them?


Why?


How?

I mean, do any of you have any actual reasons to back any of this up, or is it all just posturing?

answering your question . why am i insulted by two people of the same sex wanting to be called married .
my answer is this . MALE AND FEMALE are different physically to each other, it is the only natural way to produce another human . those 3 things are sacred ,( and outweigh 2 people of the same sex loving each other .) that is something different _ it is not a marraige _ that word symbolises man- woman , together forever. not man-man , or woman-woman .
who do people think they are taking that away from a male and female union.

and they think we heterosexual married people with children , dont have a right to chalange or be concerned about this theft a special term (married ).

if your gay be proud of it , be a good person , and dont worry about being married . that is for opposite sexes only . and opposite sexes cannot be simulated with same sex relationships . to me its simple . a spade is a spade , not a hammer , why cant people just accept that .

[FalconForce]

the thing that really eats me up about this topic, that im allowed to be gay and people always say good on you for being so open about it blah blah blah.

but i cant get "married" (for lack of a better word) to my partner when i find one and everyone expects us to just live with it and i would be happy to cal something else as long as we get the same rights as everyone else including children because i believe its nature not nurture

EDIT: i would like say this is a good discussion and thank you for keeping it clean and fairly on topic

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by FalconForce

the thing that really eats me up about this topic, that im allowed to be gay and people always say good on you for being so open about it blah blah blah.

but i cant get "married" (for lack of a better word) to my partner when i find one and everyone expects us to just live with it and i would be happy to cal something else as long as we get the same rights as everyone else including children because i believe its nature not nuture

i agree .

[Windsor342ci]

First of all poor GeckoGT is work in overtime with this thread.

To the OP. I simply disagree with it. In all forms and fashion. I am a man of faith and this goes against all my values as a man. I by no means hate gays but do not agree with there choice of lifestyle. The fact that people with similar values to me feel we need to tread on egg shells because it such a sensitive topic disappoints me. The same way a gay person feels happy to voice there opinion and share there feelings is the same as what Im doing now. Im proud of the fact of how I feel and hold my head up high for having a strong belief in this.

My 2 cents

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by CRYHSV

The fact that people with similar values to me feel we need to tread on egg shells because it such a sensitive topic disappoints me.

Out of interest, do you feel that you are walking on egg shells here or is it out in the real world that you are referring to?

[Ben73]

Another vote for who cares here.

If gay people want to marry, let them. Does it really affect anyone else in any way. They still do the same things married people do. The only difference is their gender. So who cares, just let them

[FalconForce]

Originally Posted by CRYHSV

First of all poor GeckoGT is work in overtime with this thread.

To the OP. I simply disagree with it. In all forms and fashion. I am a man of faith and this goes against all my values as a man. I by no means hate gays but do not agree with there choice of lifestyle. The fact that people with similar values to me feel we need to tread on egg shells because it such a sensitive topic disappoints me. The same way a gay person feels happy to voice there opinion and share there feelings is the same as what Im doing now. Im proud of the fact of how I feel and hold my head up high for having a strong belief in this.

My 2 cents

good on you for putting your opinion in such a nice, straight to the point way without being offensive. I dont think that anyone should have to tread on eggshells as a gay man i actually prefer when people tell me what they actually feel without being offensive because i can take info away from that comment and help to shape my view on how others feel about it.

surely a civil wedding wouldn't offend any people of faith?

[bigdude1011]

I'm quite a big fan of the French system - both same-sex and heterosexual couples have civil unions, and if they choose to marry for religious/cultural reasons, they can.

However, same-sex couples, as well as singles should be allowed to adopt children if they are fit to. Though, after the sperm donation issues, I don't think sperm donation, IVF or surrogacy should be given to anyone except for infertile couples.

[Neale]

Even though I have friends that are gay. I still struggle to get my head around the idea of it.

One thing I want to know is, If say you have 2 gay men. They cant get married obviously, but say one gets a sex change to a woman. Would that meen they can get married??? Would they still be a gay couple.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Neale

Even though I have friends that are gay. I still struggle to get my head around the idea of it.

One thing I want to know is, If say you have 2 gay men. They cant get married obviously, but say one gets a sex change to a woman. Would that meen they can get married??? Would they still be a gay couple.

Lets leave that alone and keep it simple thanks.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by bigdude1011

I'm quite a big fan of the French system - both same-sex and heterosexual couples have civil unions, and if they choose to marry for religious/cultural reasons, they can.

However, same-sex couples, as well as singles should be allowed to adopt children if they are fit to. Though, after the sperm donation issues, I don't think sperm donation, IVF or surrogacy should be given to anyone except for infertile couples.

Interesting idea. I would like to play with that for a bit.

The way I understand it is many are against same sex marriages because marriage is an institution of God and the bible states that homosexuality is an "abomination". In this line of thought marriage in the eyes of god should be kept sacred. Ok, I can see how that is important to the religious and I can respect that.

Some say they don't care, let it be so. Ok thats fair.

The subjects of the discussion say that they want the security from a legal perspective, the recognition of their bond and the equality. That is fair too, we all want to be treated as equals.

Many of the religiously minded and others I suppose have said they are not against it if it is not called marriage. If it is called something else but just as binding and symbolic. I understand that many of the couples wanting the recognition of their relationship don't necessarily need to call it marriage, they just want legal and social recognition.

Well my suggestion is this. Weddings conducted in the church, between believers in religion by a minister, priest etc may be called a marriage and issued a marriage certificate. That way a marriage in the eyes of god is termed appropriately. Those weddings of same sex couples or non religious opposite sex couples conducted by a celebrant, captain of the ship etc are not called a marriage and therefore a marriage certificate is not issued. Instead they are called something else but the legal and social recognition is the same with appropriate certification (just a different name), just the religious aspect is different.

To me, an atheist can not claim religion as a reason for not allowing same sex marriages, religion is a package and you have to take the lot. If atheists can marry, why can't the gay, both are not ideal in the eyes of god.

Most of all I can see the need to review our laws, this is a question of equity and the answer affects possibly more than a million people, it is not a small minority group.

[burnz]

the only thing in all this is who gets the "surname"?

[Zero_PSI]

This is Australia. I promote the freedom to choice. If a man wants to be with another man, let it be. Being a straight man doesn't mean I have the right to determine what's right and what's wrong in someone elses opinions and values. That's what ****** me off so much about Christianity, it's all about living in harmony until something differs from the norm.

If it's okay for a Christian to promote their beliefs, why can't 2 humans of the same sex promote their love? Take a step back and look at the ******* 1 big book of contradictions (the bible)......................

Welcome to modern society.

[SEZ213]

I can completely see where some come from when they suggest they're being discriminated against, particularly if you put the shoe on the other foot and were told you couldn't marry your partner of opposing sex, because it upset others (whose business it is none of anyway)...it seems a little hypocritical to me.

Why should a same-sex couple NOT be afforded the same right that is afforded to 'straight' couples...?

[gtxb67]

in my opinion, marriage should be between a man and a woman
and kids should only be conceived by a hetero coupe who are in love, either naturally or through medical miracles
these are not my view through religion, just my views

i cannot understand why it is so important for same sex couples to get married. it seems to me that it is a minority group wanting something, simply because it is not available
there are 3 parts to a wedding (the piece of paper is a distant fourth . . . at best)
the first part is the planning, complete with the anticipation, frustration and unbelievable excitement
the 2nd part is the day itself, where the only objective is to commit yourself to the person you love most in front of everyone else you love - not to receive a piece of paper
the 3rd part is the memories which includes photographs. i look through our wedding photographs regularly

there is nothing in the world stopping a same sex couple from enjoying those 3 points as much as a hetero couple would. the only thing missing is the piece of paper. i know where our piece of paper is, but have not looked at it unless necessary. both hetero and same sex couples are protected by the law in a de facto relationship, so it seems to me that the only thing needed is the government authorising the union . . . . which is weird to me, because less than 30 years ago, some governments in australia did not allow same sex couples at all. why then is it so important for their approval. i do not care for a governments approval, just my wife's and mine . . . . and if our family and friends approve that makes it even better. it wouldn't matter if she was called my wife, life partner, best friend or something else - i am committed to her and that is all that matters

it was suggested that allowing marriages would reduce stigmas and by extension suicides. straight men suicide too. hetero people may be homo-phobic but some gay people are hetero phobic. gay men hang crap on lesbians. lesbians hang crap on gay men - it is the lowest common denominator situation with a touch of human nature involved

it has also been suggested here and on other media that it is a human rights issue. i don't think so. a human rights issue is not allowing trans-gender people to change their birth certificate. if the do gooders of the world want change, then maybe they should campaign for that . . . . or is that injustice out of sight and therefore out of mind


in short, a same sex couple have the same rights as a hetero couple. they can do anything that a hetero couple can in relation to committing their love goes . . . except for a piece of paper. there are much bigger things in life

[geckoGT]

In my understanding a de facto relationship is not completely the same as a legally married relationship in the eyes of the law.

I understand that a married relationship is much more binding and absolute when in a situation of medical capacity and consent is an issue. Such as when one of the partnership is on life support and does not wish this. Whilst his defacto partner may know without doubt that consent would be withdrawn regarding treatment, other family may insist for treatment to continue. A married couple have more legal rights in this situation and it is harder for other family to contest that power.

Another example of when other family have the power to contest the defacto relationship is when a deceased estate is contested if a clear will is not present.

[gtxb67]

those rules need to be changed then because they are unfair

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

those rules need to be changed then because they are unfair

Yes they are but that is where it gets confusing without the ability to get "married". What is the criteria for a defacto relationship that is as binding as being married?

Being able to get married is two people having that right to publicly make the declaration on how they want their relationship to be seen by others and the law. Without it they have no right to make that declaration that other couples do, now it is a human rights issue.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by bigdude1011

I'm quite a big fan of the French system - both same-sex and heterosexual couples have civil unions, and if they choose to marry for religious/cultural reasons, they can.

Bingo. Everyone is happy.

Marriage affords many legal entitlements that are unavailable to simple couples, hetero or gay. The basis behind the movement of same sex marriage was to allow gay couples to also adopt those legal entitlements. It's not about poking religion in the eye.

Call it whatever it needs to be called, but if two same sex people want to spend their life together in monogamy, why shouldn't they be entitled to the same benefits a married couple are entitled to?

[xbcool]

I don't a crap if they marry,
one of my close neighbours is gay and lived near us for about 10 years before he told us ,we had our suspicions.
it hasn't changed the way I view this person ,he's a great bloke and his partner is just as great ,always polite and respectful.

don't know if the wish to marry and it's none of my beeswax .

to quote my neighbour "I just don't care too much for the mincing around type they give the gay comunity a bad name "