The Thailand Special Thread - New Developments/News

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There has to be more to it, because if it was only 300kg then they all would have been able to make 100km/h and wouldn't have used 30L/100km pulling only 300kg.

The Thailand Specials we're all holding gears pulling redline struggling to pull that thing.

Didn't sit through it but maybe the ute was loaded with 300kg in the tub and pulled a trailer as well in the test.

Kilonewton to Ton-force (metric) Conversion Table
Kilonewton [kN] Ton-force (metric) [tf]
2 kN 0.2039432426 tf
3 kN 0.3059148639 tf
5 kN 0.5098581065 tf

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There has to be more to it, because if it was only 300kg then they all would have been able to make 100km/h and wouldn't have used 30L/100km pulling only 300kg.

The Thailand Specials we're all holding gears pulling redline struggling to pull that thing.

Yep, no way is it 300kg. Most would barely even notice 300kg on the back. Except the Navara

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yep, no way is it 300kg. Most would barely even notice 300kg on the back. Except the Navara

That trailer dyno thing goes up to 10kN - they should do the test again at maximum load on the trailer dyno and see how many break in half

They had a failure on the Silverado where it's trailer brakes didn't work, so it did the hill decent on it's brakes.

I can't believe how much of a ****box the Navara is, it's hilarious when it got chopped by the GWM Cannon which has the lowest power and torque numbers out of the entire field.

[roKWiz]

So what was the load weight, your own results show those figures as 3kN.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

So what was the load weight, your own results show those figures as 3kN.

There was nothing in the tub on those tests, it was just the trailer dyno set to 3kN where they all struggled.

You can see it in the 0-90 times, since when would 300kg make them all take 20-30 seconds to get to 90 flat to the boards?

300kg is probably a 6x4 trailer with garden clippings in it

The conversion says 300kg but there's more to it - the trailer itself has a retarder, a drive shaft and a diff inside it doing something - I figure that 3kN figure has to have something to do with the retarder acting on the trailer.

I'll ask the question on the review let's see if they respond.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There was nothing in the tub on those tests, it was just the trailer dyno set to 3kN where they all struggled.

You can see it in the 0-90 times, since when would 300kg make them all take 20-30 seconds to get to 90 flat to the boards?

300kg is probably a 6x4 trailer with garden clippings in it

That's what I wanted to know. Wouldn't it have been better to have loaded them to GVM/GCM like bent8 suggested early in the piece.

I like real world figures. Funny reading all the BS fuel economy figures on new vehicles considering the way punters race the things between stop lights.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

That's what I wanted to know. Wouldn't it have been better to have loaded them to GVM/GCM like bent8 suggested early in the piece.

I like real world figures. Funny reading all the BS fuel economy figures on new vehicles considering the way punters race the things between stop lights.

I agree with the GVM/GCM but what ever this trailer dyno thing does is rip the *** out of them that's for sure.

They did also do a 2500kg trailer on the back and even being 1000kg short of the advertised figures they still struggled, some more than others (Navara lol)

Look at the effects on the 0-90 and 0-100 times compared to the American utes and the Raptor with the trailer dyno on the back. It confirms in my mind that when you're using something for work that there's no replacement for displacement (or a ****load of forced induction - see Raptor that ripped the American utes with their V8s)

I agree I'd like to see them at GVM/GCM and go another run, they couldn't get their hands on the lovely VDJ79 unfortunately for the test, shame because it would have shown how it's not worth the price for entry

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I agree with the GVM/GCM but what ever this trailer dyno thing does is rip the *** out of them that's for sure.

They did also do a 2500kg trailer on the back and even being 1000kg short of the advertised figures they still struggled, some more than others (Navara lol)

Look at the effects on the 0-90 and 0-100 times compared to the American utes and the Raptor with the trailer dyno on the back. It confirms in my mind that when you're using something for work that there's no replacement for displacement (or a ****load of forced induction - see Raptor that ripped the American utes with their V8s)

I agree I'd like to see them at GVM/GCM and go another run, they couldn't get their hands on the lovely VDJ79 unfortunately for the test, shame because it would have shown how it's not worth the price for entry

Find it rather amusing these tests, driving upto $ydney last week and sitting on 105km/h 1/2 loaded (1.5T payload) still passed most caravans and semi's @ 38mpg (16kml) in a 34 year old truck.

[BENT_8]

Who'd have thought the Raptor and Wildtrak, both sporting 3.0l capacities, would find no trouble pulling to 100 and up a hill.

I'll say it again..THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT!!!

who remembers the 2.0l v 3.2l caravan test when PX3 was released?
I believe they only used a 2.5t van.
My money says had that van been 3.5t the results would have been much closer uphill and the 3.2l a clear winner downhill with the 2.0l a pile of scrap in a ditch off the road due to zero engine braking and weak brake hoses.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Look at the effects on the 0-90 and 0-100 times compared to the American utes and the Raptor with the trailer dyno on the back. It confirms in my mind that when you're using something for work that there's no replacement for displacement (or a ****load of forced induction - see Raptor that ripped the American utes with their V8s)

Forced induction+3.0l V6=V8killer...

Or a milk bottle 4 banger with 10 cogs as apparently swapping cogs every 10s is a suitable replacement, until the pump packs in from being overworked that is.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yep, no way is it 300kg. Most would barely even notice 300kg on the back. Except the Navara

I agree. Has to be a Typo...!!

My Guess is the that were Simulating a 3 Tonne Load..!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hayseed

I agree. Has to be a Typo...!!

My Guess is the that were Simulating a 3 Tonne Load..!

This is whats in that trailer that allows them to simulate a heavy load:









There's that 3kN figure again - so I highly doubt that 3kN/300kg figure translates to 300kg that the car is pulling because there's no way all these cars couldn't pull 300kg and struggle to break 90km/h on a flat road flat to the boards screaming at redline

[roKWiz]

Might as well just turn up at the local tractor pull event and test them for what that would be worth.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

This is whats in that trailer that allows them to simulate a heavy load:

image

image

image

image

There's that 3kN figure again - so I highly doubt that 3kN/300kg figure translates to 300kg that the car is pulling because there's no way all these cars couldn't pull 300kg and struggle to break 90km/h on a flat road flat to the boards screaming at redline

I wonder what the Torque Multiplication factor (IE: Gearing) is between the Dyno & the Wheels.....??

[vbomber]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

This is whats in that trailer that allows them to simulate a heavy load:

image

image

image

image

There's that 3kN figure again - so I highly doubt that 3kN/300kg figure translates to 300kg that the car is pulling because there's no way all these cars couldn't pull 300kg and struggle to break 90km/h on a flat road flat to the boards screaming at redline

The trailer is 1600kg with just the equipment not turning any of the KN stuff on

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hayseed

I wonder what the Torque Multiplication factor (IE: Gearing) is between the Dyno & the Wheels.....??

Enough to make all the Thailand Specials **** the bed thats for sure

[BENT_8]

Drive article suggesting Ranger march onwards builds losing some safety tech despite price rises.
Due to semiconductor shortages apparently

[vbomber]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Drive article suggesting Ranger march onwards builds losing some safety tech despite price rises.
Due to semiconductor shortages apparently

Nothing to do with safety, interior motion sensor for the alarm and heated exterior mirrors

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by vbomber

Nothing to do with safety, interior motion sensor for the alarm and heated exterior mirrors

Yep. Still gets perimeter alarm though, just loses the interior motion or "moth" sensor. So called because a moth inside the car has been known to set it off.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by vbomber

Nothing to do with safety, interior motion sensor for the alarm and heated exterior mirrors

Sorry, meant to say security not safety.
Also misses out on the sensor thats triggrered if someone jacks it up to flog the wheels I believe

[Franco Cozzo]

Thailand Special offroad shootout:

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Thailand Special offroad shootout:

Hmmm, I bet Ford won't be happy having customers requesting that green colour considering it is not represented as available on their website.

[Franco Cozzo]

For those of you can't be bothered watching an hour long Thailand Special test, I've put together a summary:

Raptor first up - passed roller test in both 2WD and 4WD where they put half the car on rollers and the other half on the road, took a little bit more throttle to get the car to send torque to the other side of the car, at least enough to move it up hill.

Passed flex test where they put it in an offset rut on dirt to see if the doors open/close, and it managed to get itself out of the ruts no drama.

Raptor fails gravel mountain test (45% incline on loose gravel) in 4L with just rear diff lock - but passed with flying colors with both diffs locked.

Hill descent control worked perfectly,

Raptor set the bar first up.

Mazda BT50 in 2WD was real sketchy on the roller test, it rolled all the way back, hit the grate, before it even sent torque to the other side of the car then struggled to get off the rollers - fail.

Passed the test in 4WD high range but it was a bit sketchy,

BT50 passes flex test, super sketchy getting itself out of the ruts but barely managed it.

Gravel mountain, 4L and rear diff lock, failed the test, couldn't get itself all the way up.

Hill descent control super sketchy and way too quick, it went down the hill at a zillion miles - fail

So the BT50 basically sucks *** everywhere off road, which could come down to the ****ty programming of its traction control setup, puts the 'Special' in Thailand Special. This thing is at home on the Monash Freeway in peak hour.

Ssangyong Musso XLV up next,

2WD roller test, but has automatic locking rear diff so you can't manually turn on/off.

Auto rear diff lock kicked in pretty hard, chirped rear wheel and up she went (they didn't use diff locks on the other cars for this test).

4WD roller test, rear diff lock kicked in hard again and up it goes - its very aggressive when it kicks in.

Ssangyong Musso flex test, door is sketchy and wont close - chassis fail due to flex. But it got itself out the ruts no drama with the auto rear diff lock.

Gravel mountain, 4L, auto rear diff lock, failed, got most the way up then crapped out.

Hill descent control it went down at a zillion miles an hour like the BT50, had to intervene - fail.

So the Ssangyong Musso XLV sucks as well.

Next up GWM Ute Cannon-X

2WD roller test, needed 100% throttle and it still rolled back and just missed the grates by the skin of its teeth.

4WD roller test, really struggled, rolled back all the way, touched the grates and needed a ****load of throttle to get up - fail.

Flex test, doors opened and closed no drama, couldn't get itself out the ruts then overheated the 4WD system and crapped out, had to lock rear diff to get itself out - fail.

Gravel mountain, 4L and locked rear diff, failed right near the top and couldn't get itself up.

Hill Descent Control, pass!

I reckon the GWM Ute Cannon-X (thats a mouthful) sucks - puts the Special in Thailand Special even though its Chinese.

Chevrolet Silverado up next,

2WD roller test, has self locking rear diff just like the Ssangyong, kicked in really quick and hard, got itself up the rollers.

4WD roller test, diff lock kicks in and up it went.

Flex test, no dramas with the doors, rear diff lock kicks in and gets itself out.

Gravel mountain, 4L, rear diff lock is auto, and in offroad mode, smashed the test no dramas without the front diff locked like the Raptor needed :shock

Hill descent control, did a good job on the way down with adjustable speeds.

Silverado passed with flying colours, to the point it beat the Raptor up gravel mountain

Navara Clownshow Warrior up next,

Roller test, 2WD, passed the toller test no dramas, 4WD up next, very easy no dramas there.

Flex test, door opened and closed no dramas, it got itself out the ruts, but it bounced itself around a lot.

Gravel mountain, 4L, rear diff locked, got itself up the mountain, then the trans decided to kick down and flared, then it started struggling, but it made it up and passed.

Hill descent control, worked really well, walked its way down no dramas.

Surprising result for me, given it was an absolute turd on the previous towing test, one of the better Thailand Specials off road to this point (outside of the Raptor)

Isuzu DMax up next,

Expecting this to behave the same way as the BT50 thats based on it,

Rollers up first, 2WD, rolls backwards, touched the grates while wheel spinning and fails the test, just like the BT50 - surprise surprise.

Rollers 4WD test, passed and got itself up but it took a while.

Flex test, passed test, doors open and close, got itself out of the ruts but it took a while, mad wheel spin before traction control got its **** together.

Gravel mountain, 4L, rear diff lock on, struggled at the bottom of the hill and barely made it half way up - absolute potato, didn't even make it close to the BT50 for some reason.

Hill descent control, went down at a zillion miles an hour and intervention required - fail.

Given Isuzu only makes the DMax the fact their TCS is horrid off road and all the software stuff is absolute junk, get your **** together, puts the Special in Thailand Special.

Stellantis Special up next (Jeep Gladiator Rubicon), that company is like Captain Planet except its summoned by AIDS, chlamydia, syphilis, gonorrhea and herpes instead of earth, fire, wind, water and heart. This thing has rear diff lock, front diff lock and sway bar disconnect.

Rollers, 2WD and back down she goes and nearly touches the grates, just pulling up before it fails, required all the white blood cells to come back - passes but like me in high school PE, out of breath and sympathy.

Rollers 4WD test, no dramas got itself up the rollers no problems what so ever.

Flex test, no dramas doors open and close, got itself out of the ruts no dramas

Gravel mountain, 4L, rear diff locked, offroad mode, no dramas what so ever, beats Raptor up the hill, didn't even need to lock front diff. They did it again just to test all its features, locked the front diff + swaybar disconnect just to test - no dramas, no fuss, made it look easy.

Hill descent control, come to a full stop, but speed was set to 2km/h, it works very well passed.

Of course this thing did a good job here, except for the 2WD roller test it was a bit of a struggle.

RAM1500 up next,

2WD roller test, no locking diff for the RAM, only an LSD, nearly failed the test, took a lot of throttle but passed by the skin of its teeth.

4WD roller test, no drama way better - pass.

Flex test, no dramas getting the doors open, didn't have too much drama getting out of the ruts either.

Gravel mountain, 4L, no rear diff lock or no off road modes, walked up without any dramas, which the Silverado did as well.

Hill descent control, doesn't have it, lock in first gear, and 4L, - has to ride the brake then it starts running away if you let it go - automatic fail.

Interestingly the American utes aren't having a drama on the rut tests nor gravel mountain which has iced the Thailand Specials or required the front diff lock as well, for road going vehicles they're tackling the offroad stuff quite well.

The Thailand Special King is up next - Toyota Hilux Rogue,

2WD roller test, it did quite well no dramas.

4WD roller test, even less dramas, too easy.

Flex test, no dramas with the doors, the ruts it got itself out with very minimum of fuss.

Gravel mountain, 4L, rear diff lock, it got up with a bit of wheel spin but nothing too major, no going backwards, did exactly what it was meant to do, didn't need a front diff lock like the Raptor either.

Hill descent control, had to turn off rear diff lock to use it, its a bit quick but it worked well.

Well there you go, so it does exactly what it says on the box, you can tell Toyota has put in the work with the electronics side with the TCS programming and how it operates, solid effort here for the Thailand Special brigade.

Mitsubishi Triton up now, what an ancient ****box, I want it to blow goats at everything but lets see how it goes - the press car is banged up because of a car park accident.

2WD roller test, minimum of fuss, limited roll back, easy pass.

4WD roller test, super easy, no dramas and a pass.

Flex test, no problems doors opened super easy, little bit of drama getting out of the rut until traction control sorted out.

Gravel mountain, 4L, rear diff lock on, drive modes wont work with the rear diff locked, no dramas, no ****s given about gravel mountain

Hill descent control, worked a treat, handled it with ease.

Wow there you go, I guess it shouldn't be so surprising given they were responsible for the Pajero which was actually a half decent 4x4, but given how much of a second rate manufacturer they are these days, the Triton certainly is good for off road.

Ranger Wildtrack up next,

2WD roller test, easy pass no dramas, little roll back that was it.

4WD roller test, no dramas and an easy pass, slight roll back and up she went.

Flex test, doors opened no problems, got itself out the ruts without an issue.

Gravel mountain, 4L, mud ruts mode, locked rear diff, had a bit of drama with wheel spin but it made it over the top WITHOUT needing the front diff lock that the Raptor did

Hill descent control, no dramas, super easy descent.

Interestingly the regular Ranger Wildtrack did better than the Raptor up gravel mountain.

So the offroad tests for the Thailand Specials, the BT50/DMax, the GWM Cannon-X and the Ssangyong Musso are all absolute clown shows offroad.

The American utes did really well which was surprising as they're more geared towards on highway type stuff.



This is where the Raptor crapped out on Gravel Mountain without its front diff lock engaged where as the Wildtrack made it up with just the rear diff lock engaged:



All vehicles tested with their factory tyres they came off the showroom floor with, the cars aren't modified.

It shows you how potato some of the TCS programming is, there's no excuse for the DMax/BT50 twins to be as ****ful as they are IMO, you expect it out of the ****boxes like the Ssangyong Musso and the GWM Canon-X, but for established brands to put out potato-spec TCS in a vehicle designed (and advertised) for 4x4ing is a bit of a joke.

[FTE217]

maybe they gassed it up too much with the Raptor, who knows.
The toy fanboi's as quoted rejoice lol......
I'm more glad to see the wayway typical over priced Yank Rubicon cut the mustard !

[Franco Cozzo]

Interesting to see how the Triton/Navara and the AIDS-on-wheels Stellantis job all blow goats in the previous on road test but came into their own on the offroad tests.

Shows you how versatile those American utes are though, they're great on road, they're great for towing and they're great at offroad tasks too, at least anything the Average Joe is going to throw at them.

The Hilux can actually do what the advertising brochure says it can which is a nice touch, except maybe the 3500kg towing

I think there needs to be some asses kicked around how lame the Thailand Specials are when you test them on the 'limits' of their towing capacities, its obvious that above 2500kg they start struggling badly, they need to revise the 'capabilities' they list there I reckon.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Interesting to see how the Triton/Navara and the AIDS-on-wheels Stellantis job all blow goats in the previous on road test but came into their own on the offroad tests.

Shows you how versatile those American utes are though, they're great on road, they're great for towing and they're great at offroad tasks too, at least anything the Average Joe is going to throw at them.

The Hilux can actually do what the advertising brochure says it can which is a nice touch, except maybe the 3500kg towing

I think there needs to be some asses kicked around how lame the Thailand Specials are when you test them on the 'limits' of their towing capacities, its obvious that above 2500kg they start struggling badly, they need to revise the 'capabilities' they list there I reckon.

John Cadogan actually has a video on their towing capabilities.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hackney

John Cadogan actually has a video on their towing capabilities.

I've seen it, it talks about how caravans are unstable by nature of design (pig trailer) and about how you shouldn't tow a pig trailer thats heavier than the tow vehicle.

You saw some of this in the towing test with the 2500kg trailer pushing the rear of some of the Thailand Specials around - that video is linked in in this thread.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Interesting to see how the Triton/Navara and the AIDS-on-wheels Stellantis job all blow goats in the previous on road test but came into their own on the offroad tests.

Shows you how versatile those American utes are though, they're great on road, they're great for towing and they're great at offroad tasks too, at least anything the Average Joe is going to throw at them.

The Hilux can actually do what the advertising brochure says it can which is a nice touch, except maybe the 3500kg towing

I think there needs to be some asses kicked around how lame the Thailand Specials are when you test them on the 'limits' of their towing capacities, its obvious that above 2500kg they start struggling badly, they need to revise the 'capabilities' they list there I reckon.

I agree about towing limits..as one who has experienced a jack-knife after the towing trailer blew a tyre and the towing vehicle didn't have the power or weight to keep it under control, I'll never tow anything greater than the weight of the towing vehicle....for example I regularly tow with my Vito having about 800kg in the van and about 2400kg of trailer including the load within. Vans official towing limit is 2500kg so I've maxed out van's internal payload and towing limit but it's totally stable and apart from the initial take-off...hardly noticed on the move...the van and its load is still greater than the trailer and its load.

I don't think I'd want to be towing something 1000Kg heavier than the tow car. with these tested utes (apart from US utes)....can any of these Thailand utes carry a tonne and tow 3500kg and remain legal, or am I wrong?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I agree about towing limits..as one who has experienced a jack-knife after the towing trailer blew a tyre and the towing vehicle didn't have the power or weight to keep it under control, I'll never tow anything greater than the weight of the towing vehicle....for example I regularly tow with my Vito having about 800kg in the van and about 2400kg of trailer including the load within. Vans official towing limit is 2500kg so I've maxed out van's internal payload and towing limit but it's totally stable and apart from the initial take-off...hardly noticed on the move...the van and its load is still greater than the trailer and its load.

I don't think I'd want to be towing something 1000Kg heavier than the tow car...can any of these Thailand utes carry a tonne and tow 3500kg and remain legal, or am I wrong?

I know we all dislike Giovanni Cadogani here, but go to about 10:55 on this clip below:



There's a gap between what the end user/customer does, what the legislation/authorities say/enforce and what the car companies marketing departments advertise.

If police (QLD) are saying 90% of the vehicles they encounter on the roads are in breach of the regulation then common sense says:

A) We need to do more education on towing for road users
B) There needs to be more transparency on the rules/regulations
C) The OEMs need a kick in the *** for selling half truths about the capabilities of their vehicles
D) Caravan manufacturers need to be involved in the discussions

Even the Nissan Patrol has some shifty crap going on with its creative accounting towing figures - it has a payload problem at its maximum towing capacity. 9:05 onwards to skip all his usual schtick below:



I'm pretty sure the RAM 1500 has an issue with rear axle capacity as well at its 4500kg towing capacity - the thing about the American utes is the numbers in their names refer to its capabilities, the 1500 models (RAM 1500/Silverado 1500/F150) is their equivalent of our Thailand Specials.

Its once you start going to 2500/3500/F250/F350 is that things start getting serious, and if you get under one on a hoist or even just pop your head under and look through the wheel arches you'll see where the changes are.

Look at their websites and you'll see the stats they quote for their 1500 models:





Thats for the 4WD model single cab, you gain 200lbs in payload and towing if you ditch the 4WD and go back to 2WD, but you can see how they're the American version of the Thailand Special when you're talking payload and towing numbers.

My line of thinking is that once we start getting to weights like 2500kg, should we enforce on caravan/trailer manufacturers that they have to go to a 5th wheel design (based on towing vehicle weight)? Given the Thailand Special is the most popular vehicle on our roads now, I don't see the problem with this given its easy to retrofit a 5th wheel hitch to a dual cab ute.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

...can any of these Thailand utes carry a tonne and tow 3500kg and remain legal, or am I wrong?

No. Ball weight is part of the vehicles payload. Not many have 1t payload to start with.

Most of them have enough spare capacity left to allow the driver, unless you're fond of baked goods, then you might need to find a jockey to take your place. That's if you hook up the full amount.