phase 3 vs FG GT

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

i have to say this . if the FG GT . HAS MORE POWER ,HIGHER REVS, than its predecessors , and gets a better wrap off the mags with track times etc . then why is it slower at bathurst , than a BF XR8. FFS.

I SEE HOLDENS ARE DOING BETTER TIMES TOO.

for me , i think sales will be effected to some degree here . somethings wrong . ARE WE BEING MISS LED BY FORD . and where was the F6 310 KING ???

Relax a little, driver ability could be worth 10 or more seconds a lap around bathurst.

[smciner1]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Relax a little, driver ability could be worth 10 or more seconds a lap around bathurst.

Very good point Nugget, if one of us hopped in Lowndes V8 Supercar and did a few Laps around bathurst, we would be no where near Lowndes times, thats why he is paid the Big bucks to race the thing.

[ehast13]

A bit dissappointed to see Steve Johnson (no slouch around Bathurst) unable to break 2:40.
Especially compared to John Bowe's 2:35 in a 260kw BF XR8 the previous year.

I wonder how developed the car was??

It might have been stock as arock apart from brake pads and cage. If so, the rolly poly suspension in current FPV's wouldn't help anything.

Does anyone remember what times the Old AU TE50 did? It was always pretty quick...

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by ehast13

Does anyone remember what times the Old AU TE50 did? It was always pretty quick...

According to Natsoft 2:39

[TIC-302]

Originally Posted by FGXR270

Is the VT running a trent 900 engine or something? (Airbus A380 engine for the unaware)

Na mate, it had the trusty old 3.8L :

[flappist]

Originally Posted by smciner1

Very good point Nugget, if one of us hopped in Lowndes V8 Supercar and did a few Laps around bathurst, we would be no where near Lowndes times, thats why he is paid the Big bucks to race the thing.

Well I have beaten Craig Lowndes in a circuit race......

Oh ok, it was the sunny coast tourist go-carts and my cart was quicker than his

BUT....

A WIN IS A WIN.....

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by TIC-302

Na mate, it had the trusty old 3.8L :

Probably good for a 1:55 in a Reynard :

[Gammaboy]

Hasn't someone run something like a 2:05 in a F5000 at the Bathurst historics?

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by ehast13

On a side note. The comparo between VPSS, EB XR8, VH grpIII and Phase three was won by the phase three. Not by much but it was hardly a sprint. Even on old aquejets, no cage, etc it pulled a 2:58

Thanks for that clarification. I remember the times being so evenly matched. My recollection was about 1s off the correct time too!

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

Hasn't someone run something like a 2:05 in a F5000 at the Bathurst historics?

In 1970, Niel Allen drove a McLaren M10B F5000 around the track in 2m07.7s. He wasn't being pushed so should have been able to go faster. Wings & slicks open wheelers haven't been on that circuit since.

F5000 was around for more than a decade past then and the cars got appreciably faster.

[philstoj]

Originally Posted by ehast13

On a side note. The comparo between VPSS, EB XR8, VH grpIII and Phase three was won by the phase three. Not by much but it was hardly a sprint. Even on old aquejets, no cage, etc it pulled a 2:58

The phase 3 actually had pirelli P6000 tyres from memory, as the owner of the car said, they were the only tyre available that were closest to the original tyres.

[TURBOTAXI]

I just want to see a youtube video of such a race - I dont even care who wins.

[Ives]

Do a 24hr-endurance race to find the real winner.

[FGXR270]

Originally Posted by TIC-302

Na mate, it had the trusty old 3.8L :

Trusty???Nothing sounds worse or goes slower,worst engine holden ever used (ecotec).

[Supercharged]

Originally Posted by PURSUIT-250

Dont forget that the FG is a little Fatter than the XY.

Would't the Phase 3 be about 300 kilo's lighter.

[smally289]

Originally Posted by FGXR270

Trusty???Nothing sounds worse or goes slower,worst engine holden ever used (ecotec).

They don't call em 'ecowreck' for nothing.........

[FTe342]

Since the FG can't run on the track the way it was, you would have to get a Ph3 to run on the track the way it is now. Better surface should make it faster.

The FG GT certainly is a great Grand Tourer, but a 4 door race car its not. The XY Ph3 was a great 4 door race car, and probably not a bad tourer in its day.

But the times the FG produced in the hands of seasoned drivers shows there is a problem. I believe its nose heavy and this affects its corner speed which ultimately affects your terminal speed at the end of each straight. Because Bathurst is a long track this multiplies the problem. To be so far behind the opposition is embarrassing

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by Ives

Do a 24hr-endurance race to find the real winner.

The real winner of what?

The topic at hand is'nt Lemans, its bathurst and GT's..

[v8falconsrule]

Originally Posted by shaynet

Since the FG can't run on the track the way it was, you would have to get a Ph3 to run on the track the way it is now. Better surface should make it faster.

good idea, however i can't imagine there'd be too many people lining up to thrash a genuine, original condition ph3 just to settle a discussion like this one.

[platinumXR]

sleep:

[platinumXR]

sleep:...*...wha? sorry...um..1 lap sprint? FG no doubt both in STOCK TRIM not Biante trim 500hp

Enduro? PH3 as the FG are too fragile and something would break...bound to...IMHO

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by shaynet

Since the FG can't run on the track the way it was, you would have to get a Ph3 to run on the track the way it is now. Better surface should make it faster.

The FG GT certainly is a great Grand Tourer, but a 4 door race car its not. The XY Ph3 was a great 4 door race car, and probably not a bad tourer in its day.

But the times the FG produced in the hands of seasoned drivers shows there is a problem. I believe its nose heavy and this affects its corner speed which ultimately affects your terminal speed at the end of each straight. Because Bathurst is a long track this multiplies the problem. To be so far behind the opposition is embarrassing

i understand your points . but FORD and the MAGS all trumped on about how the FG was a marked improvement over BA/BF in all these key areas. i think even race drivers backed it up with track times .

SO WHY DOES A BF 260 BEAT A GT 315 later improved model ????
to me maybe we are being HAD ( LIED TO BY FORD) marketeering. CDAA atests to this in another thread with his test drive of the FG GT.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

i understand your points . but FORD and the MAGS all trumped on about how the FG was a marked improvement over BA/BF in all these key areas. i think even race drivers backed it up with track times .

SO WHY DOES A BF 260 BEAT A GT 315 later improved model ????
to me maybe we are being HAD ( LIED TO BY FORD) marketeering. CDAA atests to this in another thread with his test drive of the FG GT.

The car driven in the 2008 Enduro by John Bowe and Co has been raced for a few seasons, it's well set-up in the handling department and im pretty sure in the class they race they can upgrade to 4 Pot brakes on the front.

Like it or not, a well tuned BF XR8 V a Never before raced and poorly prepared FG GT.. we'll lets just say the proof was in the results, with the amount of body roll the thing had i'd be suprised if it even had a decent Spring & Shock combo under it.

So the BF would have killed it going up the mountain and coming down, under brakes would have been similar since the XR8 had a fronts upgrade and the rears on a b series do sweet FA, now down the straights i'd be suprised if that FG even had a tune, so a factory tune FG GT V a Well tuned BF XR8, wont be much in it.

Over the whole lap, the FG won't have been faster anywhere.

Give that same GT a season or a few tests race meetings (Like the FG Xr8...) and it begins to show more potential.

Why Steven johnson even accepted the drive is beyond me, hell Djr could have slapped a better example of a "racecar" together than that in under a week and had time to tweek it a bit.

[JACK250]

Originally Posted by Ives

Do a 24hr-endurance race to find the real winner.

Good way to build arms I guess

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

SO WHY DOES A BF 260 BEAT A GT 315 later improved model ????
to me maybe we are being HAD ( LIED TO BY FORD) marketeering. CDAA atests to this in another thread with his test drive of the FG GT.

Simple.. well sorted set-up. That same BF XR8 spanked allot of HSV's too...

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Simple.. well sorted set-up. That same BF XR8 spanked allot of HSV's too...

perhaps , but hardly seems a fair race if ones stock the other modded . yet i dont know the rules , however i've always liked the idea of manufacturers cars racing . . if DJR raced a completely stock vehiclew against modded vehicles ( which i doubt) , then they were probably settinmg themselves up for a fall. and further if that is so. then it doesnt say much for factory performance vehicles . on australian cars . imagine getting a porsche tuned and aftermarket mods !! that would be sacreligious .

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

perhaps , but hardly seems a fair race if ones stock the other modded . yet i dont know the rules , however i've always liked the idea of manufacturers cars racing . . if DJR raced a completely stock vehiclew against modded vehicles ( which i doubt) , then they were probably settinmg themselves up for a fall. and further if that is so. then it doesnt say much for factory performance vehicles . on australian cars . imagine getting a porsche tuned and aftermarket mods !! that would be sacreligious .

Both cars will be within the "stock" rules of the class however simple basic things like shock settings, spring rates, wheel camber, tyre compounds etc can make an enormous difference to lap times, one has been optimized through trial and error, the other isnt, that's the difference.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by smally351

They don't call em 'ecowreck' for nothing.........

Still quicker than most of the Falcons, and as I said earlier, good for around a 1:55 lap in a Reynard chassis.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Both cars will be within the "stock" rules of the class however simple basic things like shock settings, spring rates, wheel camber, tyre compounds etc can make an enormous difference to lap times, one has been optimized through trial and error, the other isnt, that's the difference.

I see . thanks .