Alleged War Crimes by Australian Soldiers

[Cav]

[Cav]

This is from the president of an association whose unit served in Vietnam

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

^^^

Off topic, but I had the pleasure of meeting Angus a few times during my time in Defence. He always had time to speak to anyone, no matter what their rank or role within the organisation. He could talk to the top brass and he could talk to new recruits in exactly the same way. He was very personable.

I was very surprised when he was chosen to become CDF after he stood up to the pollies during the Children Overboard affair. Sure he showed integrity with his reporting of the affair, which i personally respected, but to do so publicly as he did is normally a career-ending move.

A man that I would consider to be a true leader.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

^^^

Off topic, but I had the pleasure of meeting Angus a few times during my time in Defence. He always had time to speak to anyone, no matter what their rank or role within the organisation. He could talk to the top brass and he could talk to new recruits in exactly the same way. He was very personable.

I was very surprised when he was chosen to become CDF after he stood up to the pollies during the Children Overboard affair. Sure he showed integrity with his reporting of the affair, which i personally respected, but to do so publicly as he did is normally a career-ending move.

A man that I would consider to be a true leader.

It is always good to hear first hand accounts of good leadership, but I fear that his handling of this matter was more about him rather than the troops that were under his command.

A good leader in my opinion is someone who puts the troops first.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Cav

It is always good to hear first hand accounts of good leadership, but I fear that his handling of this matter was more about him rather than the troops that were under his command.

A good leader in my opinion is someone who puts the troops first.

Do you mean the alleged war crimes, Cav or the Children Overboard affair? I haven't kept up to date with the war crimes story, so really can't comment one way or the other on his comments/involvement in that.

But I take on board your point, Cav.

[Cav]

[LG17]

Originally Posted by Cav

image

I agree with that 100%.
It's basically what I said way back on page 1.

[PG2]

Posting up archaic opinions bagging someone who used to be a he and is now a she will not help the challenges that these soldiers are currently facing.

I am as much of a dinosaur as the next middle aged white male, but I also know when to keep my mouth shut when it comes to 'modern ideas'.

Whether some of us like it or not, we live in times where these sort of things are accepted - get used to it.

[Streets]

This stuff about machine gun fire and watching mates die is all very true; I wonder how the guys who've had it happen to them feel about the heroes in the special forces murdering prisoners of war and planting weapons on them as an initiation ritual. Imagine going through all that kind of harrowing, life-or-death **** in the course of your duty and along comes a few unhinged maniacs to desecrate not only all the hard work you put in but the reputation of the ADF at large

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Cav

image

As soon as I read "MSM" a flag went up and I could hear banjos...

https://www.facebook.com/Aussietothe...=page_internal

[lra]

On a tangent from the thread title, it now appears that the ADF members deployed to COVID19 duties in Melbourne are complaining about isolation, lack of proper food, hours worked, lack of time off for exercise and other things.

Another case of 'Off you go, do the best you can under the circumstances, see you later'.
Meanwhile Political MPs and Top Brass take the credit for fixing a problem that should not have been there initially.

[Bossxr8]

Okkkkaaayyyy then.

[Ratmick]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

As soon as I read "MSM" a flag went up and I could hear banjos...

https://www.facebook.com/Aussietothe...=page_internal

[nuthin' fancy]

There is an enormous difference between "I do not agree with what you say" and "you are an idiot for saying that".

Please learn the difference and practice the former to avoid long holidays or permanent absences.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

As soon as I read "MSM" a flag went up and I could hear banjos...

https://www.facebook.com/Aussietothe...=page_internal

Sorry FGS, I'll try not to play so loud...

[MITCHAY]

I'm glad they have backed down from stripping unit medals but holy **** how out of touch do you have to be to think that wouldn't have been well received

They are allegations at this point and anyone can make them.

[marty351]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I'm glad they have backed down from stripping unit medals but holy **** how out of touch do you have to be to think that wouldn't have been well received

They are allegations at this point and anyone can make them.

Leftist virtue signalling = dangerous.

The military is not a democracy, and politically correct posturing only serves those with that agenda.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by marty351

Leftist virtue signalling = dangerous.

The military is not a democracy, and politically correct posturing only serves those with that agenda.

Tell that to those who have fallen...

[marty351]

Originally Posted by LG17

Tell that to those who have fallen...

That the military hierarchy are playing pc with the memory and families of the fallen? Then yes.

[Cav]

From the Daily Telegraph...

War crime allegations: Elite soldiers furious at being disbanded
Australia’s most elite soldiers are upset at plans to dismantle their squadron in the wake of a report accusing some soldiers of war crimes in Afghanistan.

Special forces soldiers are in “absolute uproar” and threatening to discharge from their positions in protest of their squadron being disbanded in the wake of the Afghan war crimes report.

Chief of Army Rick Burr last month removed 2 Squadron Special Air Service Regiment from the Army’s Order of Battle following the release of the Brereton Report, arguing the group was a “nexus of activities” related to the war crimes allegations.

It is the squadron in which Australia’s most decorated living soldier and Victoria Cross recipient — Ben Roberts-Smith — served.

Former officer in the Sydney-based special forces 2nd Commando Regiment Heston Russell told The Daily Telegraph “more than 60” current serving and reservist SAS members “have or intend” to submit their discharge paperwork in disgust over the “group punishment”.

“The 2nd squadron has been there since 1964 and has generations of veterans who fought in Borneo, Vietnam and many other deployments in between, many of whom never even deployed to Afghanistan,” he said.

“Disbanding punishes nearly 60 years, multiple generations, of those who served.”

Mr Russell said the squadron members were in “absolute uproar” but unable to mount a public defence.

“I think over 350 letters have been written to the Prime Minister because that’s all they’re allowed to do,” he said.

“They can’t get on social media or get their voice out in public.”


It comes as a scheduled parade to “farewell” the squadron scheduled to take place *tomorrow has been cancelled.

A Defence spokeswoman confirmed the planned “activity to mark the removal of 2 Squadron” at Campbell Barracks in Perth would not go ahead at this time.

“In light of sensitivities related to the inquiry, the Chief of the Defence Force has requested the Chief of Army delay the activity until the implementation plan for the inquiry is fully developed,” she said.

The spokeswoman said Defence “acknowledges the long history” of 2 Squadron and the “service” of its veterans.

Special Forces Soldiers face sack after war crime report
“Defence will work with the 2 Squadron veterans community and ex-service organisations to appropriately acknowledge their service,” she said.

However one veteran told The Daily Telegraph the event was not going ahead as many people, including people in the SAS Association, had decided to boycott it in protest of the handling of the decision to axe the squadron.

[DJR-351]

I remember watching Medic 'Dusty' Miller on 60 Minutes earlier this year and really felt for the guy for having been put in this situation by his 'mates', it took a lot of guts to come out publicly and say what he said, and to face the victims family, well i got no words for that.....towards the end of the footage he strenuously makes the point that these incidents are the actions of a minority group and that the vast majority of the SAS are professional in there actions and are doing good work.....

IMO we should not be punishing the majority in any way at all because of the actions of a few, those individuals presumed responsible need to be rooted out and if found guilty punished, and all this needs to be done publicly no matter how far up and down the chain of command it goes, conducting this behind closed doors or keeping it 'in house' will remove any credibility in the eyes of the public...we need to clean house and it needs to be seen to be done...


I tip my hat to the guy, he's a hero in my eyes...

[Cav]

Move to scrap SAS squadron delayed after Diggers’ outrage

The axing of a special forces unit at the centre of war crimes allegations has been delayed, but not cancelled, according to the Defence Minister.

Finn McHugh
NCA NewsWire
DECEMBER 7, 20201:52PM

Top Defence officials have walked back a decision to revoke bravery medals given to SAS soldiers who served in Afghanistan after a public backlash.
A plan to disband a special forces squadron at the centre of war crimes allegations has been delayed.

It comes after The Daily Telegraph reported special forces soldiers planned a mass walkout over the decision.

Defence Chief Angus Campbell said the 2 Squadron Special Air Service Regiment would be axed after the release of the damning Afghan war crimes report, which found evidence of 39 murders of Afghan civilians and prisoners by Australian special forces.

But a Defence statement on Sunday said he had requested the plan be delayed.

“In light of sensitivities related to the inquiry, the Chief of the Defence Force has requested the Chief of Army delay the activity until the implementation plan for the inquiry is fully developed,” it read.

Defence Minister Linda Reynolds said the disbanding had been delayed but not cancelled.

“My understanding from the Chief of Defence Force is that it will proceed for the reasons that the Chief of Army and the Chief of Defence Force have said,” she confirmed to reporters.

“Given the gravity of the circumstances that have led to that, I fully support it.”

A “farewell” parade to commemorate the end of the squadron was scheduled for Tuesday but has been postponed.


More than 60 soldiers threatened a walkout over the plan.Source:News Limited

Labor Defence spokesman Richard Marles conceded the decision had sparked anger but said the report’s recommendations should be implemented.

He warned Defence needed to be given space to work through its findings during “a very painful period”.

“The material that was dealt with by the Brereton report was as difficult as anything we’ve seen for our Defence Force,” he said.

“This is painful for many, many people serving in our Defence forces, but it’s really important that we face up to the terrible allegations that are contained within it.

“That’s what this investigation did. It’s really important at the end of the day that the recommendations contained in the Brereton report are ultimately implemented.”

Senator Reynolds also confirmed last week the government had expressed concern over General Campbell’s plan to revoke a meritorious unit citation, a move that could affect up to 3000 veterans.

General Campbell said last month he would request soldiers who served in Afghanistan at the time of the alleged murders be stripped of the decoration.

He said the collective award was no longer sustainable given the number of allegations levelled in the Brereton report.

But he has since bowed to public pressure, confirming no final decision has been made.

[LG17]

I'm glad that the brass making these decisions aren't making them on the battlefield.
Can you imagine the ****fight if they kept changing their minds in the heat of battle?

[marty351]

imagine the ****fight if they kept changing their minds in the heat of battle?

That's why we need decent leadership, not pandering to social expectations.

[MethodX]

Are they taking away the medals? hope so.
Aussies have always thought their soldiers and sports people and teams are holier than though and hung it on other nations.

Great to see evidence pile up over the last few years.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Are they taking away the medals? hope so.
Aussies have always thought their soldiers and sports people and teams are holier than though and hung it on other nations.

Great to see evidence pile up over the last few years.

Taking away the medals of those who are found guilty(if found guilty in a court of law) is ok but taking away the medals of every soldier is not on.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

As soon as I read "MSM" a flag went up and I could hear banjos...

https://www.facebook.com/Aussietothe...=page_internal

While FB is a great connection tool, my god if it was shut down tomorrow I wouldnt be sad. These numpties would be be relegated to some drug-fecked town shed so they could chant themselves to sleep cradling each others balls..

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Are they taking away the medals? hope so.
Aussies have always thought their soldiers and sports people and teams are holier than though and hung it on other nations.

Great to see evidence pile up over the last few years.

What a scummy post. You're happy to see some of our soldiers do the wrong thing?

[Cav]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Are they taking away the medals? hope so.
Aussies have always thought their soldiers and sports people and teams are holier than though and hung it on other nations.

Great to see evidence pile up over the last few years.

Perhaps you could share this 'evidence' seeing as it has influenced your opinion.

BTW, soldiers will not lose their medals.

What is at issue is whether all soldiers will be stripped of the meritorious unit citation from the Special Operations Task Group (SOTG).

It looks similar to this and it is worn on the right breast, whereas medals are worn on the left breast.

[lra]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Are they taking away the medals? hope so.
Aussies have always thought their soldiers and sports people and teams are holier than though and hung it on other nations.
Great to see evidence pile up over the last few years.

Why has this uninformed, antagonist, un-Australian post not been deleted.