Serpentine conversion done, now start the dramas ! - Page 4

megsy · 28-09-2005, 09:23 PM

had a thought to what you said about the harmonic balancers, did you put them back to back or one on top of the other when changing the marks over, because for what you said about the flames it is not firing on or just after TDC

EDIT:
those compression figures should still let it fire

EFFalcon · 28-09-2005, 09:26 PM

if its firing when the inlet valve is open, then the timing is way advanced, and firing way way way before 10 degrees BTDC

MAD · 28-09-2005, 09:29 PM

Is the rotor button seated properly on the dizzy shaft? A long shot probably.

Psycho Chicken · 28-09-2005, 09:29 PM

Ignition timing may be spot on but cam timing out. Unlikely I know, but possible.

spope · 28-09-2005, 09:32 PM

I'd go with that rob, when we checked it with the rocker cover off, it appeared that number one was on compression, number 2 inlet valve was open and number 3 exhaust valve was open. At TDC that is.
I tried to work out in my head if that was correct, but I can't. Any ideas?

EA2BA · 28-09-2005, 09:35 PM

I can find no reason for it not to work, and i have looked, tried, changed and thought of everything, and quite a few other ideas off this thread, all to no avail.

I think its just a matter of admit defeat finally, I may try again the weekend, one last attempt but I doubt anything will happen.

Psycho Chicken · 28-09-2005, 09:39 PM

Both valves should be closed at TDC. If the cam has retarded itself enough the the inlet valve may be closing at ignition.

megsy · 28-09-2005, 09:42 PM

still recon the timing it out ;)

when you find TDC, dont use the timing case mark, take one of the plugs out and look down the cylinder with a torch, then set the timing off that, and check the cam timing against that point as well just to be sure

EA2BA · 28-09-2005, 09:49 PM

megsy i did that method the first time before i started it, as i wanted to be sure I had it right, and it was kicked first go, ran for 30 seconds the stalled, and never started again, for no reason.

megsy · 28-09-2005, 09:56 PM

it HAS to be something timing related, symply because of the flames out of the inlet

28-09-2005, 09:57 PM

yes check cam timing, its possible it has slipped a few teeth. set to TDC and make sure that the timing dot on the cam gear is 3mm above the head on the inlet side.

EA2BA · 28-09-2005, 09:59 PM

done that john, i will give it another whole attempt on the weekend, never know ya luck, but i think its just done its time, and gone to the great garage in the sky.

EFFalcon · 28-09-2005, 10:01 PM

thats cool.... a new engine will see an easy 100rwkw

EA2BA · 28-09-2005, 10:02 PM

I did really want the el ecu in and 100rwkw from the ea motor, just cause i wanted too, but damn it not to be.

megsy · 28-09-2005, 10:06 PM

i wouldnt be giving up just yet, it still turns doesnt it, therefore it's still alive,

EA2BA · 28-09-2005, 10:11 PM

I havent given up completely, just deciding to take a dose reality that its not starting for no apparent reason

Psycho Chicken · 28-09-2005, 10:15 PM

Spark is firing with the inlet valves open! There is no other way to get flame out the manifold.

smoke · 28-09-2005, 10:18 PM

distributor didn't slip out of place just a small bit?

EA2BA · 28-09-2005, 10:21 PM

hence as the ford book says, answer yes to all these questions, its a mechanical fault.

InitialD · 28-09-2005, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dellboy999

I did really want the el ecu in and 100rwkw from the ea motor, just cause i wanted too, but damn it not to be.

I win :P

I still think its something todo with the driveshaft but thats IMO. The block you mentioned to me earlier about should do the trick. Its certainly wierd that it just cranks and even with the leads 180deg around no change. Also the Afterburner effect thru the throttlebody is something a little scary (Jasons car is actually a F16 i know it)

NZ · 29-09-2005, 10:19 AM

Did you use the EF timing case? They have one timing mark yeah? Do we know if thats TDC or if its 10deg BTDC?

EA2BA · 29-09-2005, 10:23 AM

Used the EA timing case, and marked the hamonic balancer for the timing mark to match the EA one, well put together and set as per how I normally do it, it started 1st go (for 30 seconds) then stalled, so it had to be right.

Pilch · 29-09-2005, 10:37 AM

It is to do with timing / valves / compression. Sounds to me like like either your timing is way off, your cam is not set right (jumped some teeth) or your valve train is playing funny buggers some how and not opening/closing correctly.

Because one of these is out you don't have compression when there is spark as both your valves aren't closed, so you get no sign of life! As EFFalcon said, commmmmmmpression!!!!!

jeffb · 29-09-2005, 10:45 AM

Lets review,

all you have done is change the pully drives and belt yeh?

did you use the existing alternator? Ac comp and power steering pump and just change the pulleys? or get new ones?

and now you have checked everything 50 times and played with lots of , has compression, has spark, has fuel and air.

Take the belt off, disconnect the alternator and see what happens then when you try to start it.

EA2BA · 29-09-2005, 11:23 AM

new water pump, change alternator (was whole reason for conversion), changed a/c pump, brand new belt, disconnected alt (with belt on) still no start anyways.

jeffb · 29-09-2005, 11:35 AM

well....... there is not a lot left,

the only thing left in the back of my mind is that the injector timing is out or they are stuck open.

edit: pull the fuel pump relay out and then get a squirty bottle with fuel in it and shoot it in the itake when winding it over, if ignition and timing are ok it should atleast fire. wind it over a bit before you start shooting fuel into it just incase it is flooded.

MAD · 29-09-2005, 05:39 PM

Is the spark still weak, or has it picked up with a charged battery?

eafalcon · 29-09-2005, 06:09 PM

When buggering around with a KOEO test it stalled and the injectors stay open and flood the engine, it took for ever to get it started again. Also a good spark outside the engine does not mean a good spark under compression. TFI modules can also change timing when faulty.
I know that this sounds farfetched but the cam has a pin that locates the cam sprocket. Is it possible that the pin has sheared and allowed the cam timing to move. I know it would be coincidental but funnier things have happened.
My EA is running EL ecu etc and some times it will not start first time u turn the key or the second but always on the third. I have been unable to find a solution to this so far so anything is possible. Time to start thinking outside the square. Try anything
Good Luck

NZ · 29-09-2005, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eafalcon

When buggering around with a KOEO test it stalled and the injectors stay open and flood the engine, it took for ever to get it started again. Also a good spark outside the engine does not mean a good spark under compression. TFI modules can also change timing when faulty.
I know that this sounds farfetched but the cam has a pin that locates the cam sprocket. Is it possible that the pin has sheared and allowed the cam timing to move. I know it would be coincidental but funnier things have happened.
My EA is running EL ecu etc and some times it will not start first time u turn the key or the second but always on the third. I have been unable to find a solution to this so far so anything is possible. Time to start thinking outside the square. Try anything
Good Luck

Not meaning to take this off track, but how did you get an el computer to work in an ea which wouldnt have had smartlock?

parawolf · 29-09-2005, 09:50 PM

How about you buy a lovely second hand BA *points at signature*

:

Sorry couldn't resist...