SCT Advisory

[Penelope Pitstop]

Originally Posted by Charlie@sct

What name is on the outside of your tuner box?

And this guys is where SCT have got us.

It is my understanding that once an Australian company import a product from certain countries overseas the deeming laws kick in and the importer becomes the manufacturer - even though they didn't technically manufacturer it.

Our beef should be with Herrods and Capa... as sad as that is - and this bloke from SCT knows it.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Charlie@sct

After 90 days, your device will program you vehicle like it was designed to do.

Smoke and mirrors, that is not what I asked.

I asked if I will be able to get the tunes modified in 2 years time as I was led to believe by your distributors that I could as there was no chronological limitation on the device, just a limit to the number of different VIN's the box could be used on?

So to make it clear, can the tunes on my X1 be modified by a tuner beyond this 90 days?

[bdave351]

Originally Posted by Penelope Pitstop

And this guys is where SCT have got us.

It is my understanding that once an Australian company import a product from certain countries overseas the deeming laws kick in and the importer becomes the manufacturer - even though they didn't technically manufacturer it.

Our beef should be with Herrods and Capa... as sad as that is - and this bloke from SCT knows it.

That very interesting Penelope and most likely part of SCT's thinking.

However since they have then taken a deiberate action to damage another partys product they should still be liable.

[GT-E]

Charlie,
As you are very good at not directly answering questions, here are specific questions that only require a Yes or No answer:

1. After 90 days, can we have the X1 reset for a new car?
2. After 90 days can our tuners still create custome tunes, upload them to our X1's and the we upload them to our car ?

This seems to be the clouded questions that you are not answering.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by Burnedout

However I think, if I understand what Charlie is trying to tell me, if I got to a Tuner in the next 90 days my X1 may still function as intended ----- Charlie is this the case?

It will work forever unless it has a malfunction, but if you want a tune changed or modified you have only 90 days to do this.

[Justin@]

Originally Posted by Penelope Pitstop

And this guys is where SCT have got us.

It is my understanding that once an Australian company import a product from certain countries overseas the deeming laws kick in and the importer becomes the manufacturer - even though they didn't technically manufacturer it.

Our beef should be with Herrods and Capa... as sad as that is - and this bloke from SCT knows it.

Does that mean that these guys have the legal right to do this?
Is there any legal comeback on capa or herrord?

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by ZapXR6T

Charlie,
As you are very good at not directly answering questions, here are specific questions that only require a Yes or No answer:

1. After 90 days, can we have the X1 reset for a new car?
2. After 90 days can our tuners still create custome tunes, upload them to our X1's and the we upload them to our car ?

This seems to be the clouded questions that you are not answering.

Exactly!

Charlie has indicated his company knows WHICH X1's have been fiddled, ergo he knows who had diddled the company - so why kick us?

Because this how you find out how many other dodgy X1's are out there - perhaps?

[DJR02]

Charlie,

I am not pleased with what is happening here, but I can understand that you need to protect your interests.

However it should not be the people that have used their hard earned money and supported your company in good faith over the past few years that are held liable.

The way I see it there is a design flaw in your product, you have given to many options in relation to the long term use of the tuner.

If you had limited the box to be used on 1 car only, with the box staying with the car for the life of that car, would people have purchased the tuner,

Absolutely as at the time there was no other options.

Would we be having this discussion now, i'll bet not.

I don't know if it is possible but can the tuner boxes be locked to their current vehicles and therefore used for the life of that vehicle, then if someone purchases a new car and wanted to tune it they wouild need to purchase a new flash tuner.

I think this would make things more acceptable to the general public.

Cheers Jeff

[snappy]

Please forgive me but this discussion is a mess.

Xcal 1 good for updating tunes for 90 days = yes
Xcal 1 will still work swapping tunes in your vechicle for the life of the box = yes
xcal 2 has not been affected and is a cheaper allternative to the xcal 3 = ?
Or the xcal 2 is affected an may be shut down like the xcal 1 = ?

Xcal 3 will never get shutdown like the xcal 1 = ?
Is there a trade in offer for the xcal 1 =?

sorry but im struggling to get my brain around it all.

Charlie wake up were not done with you yet.

[Daymoe]

Someone with the tuning software/flash tuner itself, look through the EULA on the software/tuner and see if you can find a clause in there to back up your argument. There might be something interesting in there.

Look, I don't actually have one of these flash tuner things, nor do I own a car but I believe the original intent of the product was to allow a user to get custom "tunes" applied to their car, I can understand not updating the software anymore, just like Microsoft wouldn't continue software updates for Windows 3.11 anymore (for example). But when you release a new product, I don't think that gives you the right to "cripple" the older ones that people payed good money for. They may still do part of the job by holding the original tune, and allow them to switch between each of them still, but de-activating an important feature that was a selling point of the product just because there is a new one out.

For example, it would be like having Microsoft Office 2007, it all works perfectly up until Microsoft Office 2009 comes out, it forces an update of your software that disables the "print" and "save" functions, but it still allows you to part of its original purpose (which seems to be the case with your product).

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

It will work forever unless it has a malfunction, but if you want a tune changed or modified you have only 90 days to do this.

Not unless your dealer (or someone like myself) still has Advantage 2.9. You can tune most cars prior to the BFII Boss 302/FG Falcons.

I wonder how many dealers are left with Advantage V2.9 as well as V3.xx? Charlie, how about converting V3 files back to V2.9 files to allow those tuners who want to service customers with XC1 boxes to do so?

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by DJR02

Charlie,

I am not pleased with what is happening here, but I can understand that you need to protect your interests.

However it should not be the people that have used their hard earned money and supported your company in good faith over the past few years that are held liable.

The way I see it there is a design flaw in your product, you have given to many options in relation to the long term use of the tuner.

If you had limited the box to be used on 1 car only, with the box staying with the car for the life of that car, would people have purchased the tuner,

Absolutely as at the time there was no other options.

Would we be having this discussion now, i'll bet not.

I don't know if it is possible but can the tuner boxes be locked to their current vehicles and therefore used for the life of that vehicle, then if someone purchases a new car and wanted to tune it they wouild need to purchase a new flash tuner.

I think this would make things more acceptable to the general public.

Cheers Jeff

Jeff

I can see where you are going but I do not see this as acceptable.

I purchased the device on the understanding that when I sell that car, which I have, I will be able to use it (with a new tune) for my new car, which I want to. The suggestion you put forward still prevents me from accessing the features that I bought the product for, unacceptable.

[Penelope Pitstop]

Originally Posted by bdave351

That very interesting Penelope and most likely part of SCT's thinking.

However since they have then taken a deiberate action to damage another partys product they should still be liable.

I am not a legal professional and only have limited knowledge on this subject off the top of my head from the point of view of a Professional Indemnity and Liability Agent.

I am reluctant to say much more at this stage but I do hope that both Herrods and Capa have their Products Liability and Professional Indemnity up to date with good coverage because I would hate to see an Aussie company fall over due to the actions of their American supplier.

[DJR02]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Jeff

I can see where you are going but I do not see this as acceptable.

I purchased the device on the understanding that when I sell that car, which I have, I will be able to use it (with a new tune) for my new car, which I want to. The suggestion you put forward still prevents me from accessing the features that I bought the product for, unacceptable.

Gecko,

I know it would not be a perfect outcome, but as I see it the x1 is now dead and this might be the best of a bad option.

At least it would allow people who have an x1 to use it.

Jeff

[Buf-Phoon]

Originally Posted by Charlie@sct

I can only spend so long before another post comes up. I'm doing my best for it being 4:00 in the morning.

I'll try to keep up

Charlie@sct

I know it's probably against this forums rules and I do respect that, but Charlie most of the customers that purchase these units drive xr6 Turbos.

Might be worthwhile poking your head in there as well fordxr6turbo.com

the natives there are also looking towards a comfortable resolution for all parties.There are already 200 plus posts with very unhappy members.

To the moderation team of FFA this is also an industry not site related dilema.
My point is, this issue is bigger than any site alone.

Thanks for your support

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

It will work forever unless it has a malfunction, but if you want a tune changed or modified you have only 90 days to do this.

Got that, Thanks.

[SpoolMan]

I done the answers in red to the best of my understanding.
Its 5am in Florida Charlie may have gone to bed..

Xcal 1 good for updating tunes for 90 days = yes correct
Xcal 1 will still work swapping tunes in your vechicle for the life of the box = yes correct
xcal 2 has not been affected and is a cheaper allternative to the xcal 3 = correct
Or the xcal 2 is affected an may be shut down like the xcal 1 = ?
I was told x cal 2 is ok, it dont suffer from piracy issues.
Xcal 3 will never get shutdown like the xcal 1 = dont know, i hope not
Is there a trade in offer for the xcal 1 = I was told it would be $100

[BOSHOG]

im new around here and am interested in buying a tuning product, after reading all this dribble i dont think i could buy a SCT product due to the lack of after sale service being offered to people that have indirectly pumped millions of their hard earned dollars into your company

im sure tuners pay fees to use your software, now those tuners will be forced to use different software due to the ford community having the door slammed in their face like this, good luck for future endevours

[WASP]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

So to make it clear, can the tunes on my X1 be modified by a tuner beyond this 90 days?

This is my question as well. First I was under the impression that it wasn't able to, but then Charlie suggusted it could when responding to post 59.

Originally Posted by Charlie@sct

Please re-read your post. ABC are covered even once the 90 days has lapsed.

But i commend you for being polite about it.

Charlie@sct

I clear understanding of this will put alot of peoples minds at rest thanks Charlie.

Colville

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by DJR02

Gecko,

I know it would not be a perfect outcome, but as I see it the x1 is now dead and this might be the best of a bad option.

At least it would allow people who have an x1 to use it.

Jeff

I agree, but it is still a failure to deliver the features that were advertised for the product. With this in mind I do not find the suggestion acceptable, nor do I wish to give any indication that I will in the future.

Why do we have to give quarter on this issue when we are not at fault but it is the consumer taking the financial hit?

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by Charlie@sct

And if your box was used multiple times you'll pay me $1000 per vehicle in the history? I think my odds are pretty good

If it has been used on any other vehicle than mine, I would be very suprised. I purchased this product accross the counter, new off a recognized CAPA dealer and a highly regarded tuner with a great reputation, not some guy off ebay with a feeback rating of 5%. It was in what looked like its original box and packaging and looked like it had never been used.

Whats more, the fact that you are alluding to the fact that it isn't tells me how much thought you put into security when releasing the product in the first place. Sounds like it was all too hard and expensive so your company at the time. So you decided to take shortcuts to get your product out there ASAP rather than spend the neccesary time and R&D to do it right in the first place. Now you expect us to pay (again) for your 'money first quality second' attitude and your incompetence.

Rather than trying to screw us all over, how about a bit of product support (for a product that I purchased new only 9 months ago) rather than just giving us a pineapple and talking down to me like an ?

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by Buf-Phoon

I know it's probably against this forums rules and I do respect that, but Charlie most of the customers that purchase these units drive xr6 Turbos.

Might be worthwhile poking your head in there as well fordxr6turbo.com

the natives there are also looking towards a comfortable resolution for all parties.There are already 200 plus posts with very unhappy members.

To the moderation team of FFA this is also an industry not site related dilema.
My point is, this issue is bigger than any site alone.

Thanks for your support

As for most I doubt it, everyone is free to join this Forum, the Ford world is so much bigger than a 6 turbo.
SCT tuning devices from 1990 e-series to 2009 falcons.

Send an email through to SCT Technical department and request it, they asked admin for permission before posting.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

I done the answers in red to the best of my understanding.
Its 5am in Florida Charlie may have gone to bed..

Xcal 1 good for updating tunes for 90 days = yes correct
Xcal 1 will still work swapping tunes in your vechicle for the life of the box = yes correct
xcal 2 has not been affected and is a cheaper allternative to the xcal 3 = correct
Or the xcal 2 is affected an may be shut down like the xcal 1 = ?
I was told x cal 2 is ok, it dont suffer from piracy issues.
Xcal 3 will never get shutdown like the xcal 1 = dont know, i hope not
Is there a trade in offer for the xcal 1 = I was told it would be $100

Further to that Spoolman I think it's important to add:

XCal1 boxes can still be tuned with Advantage v2.9

The 90 day expiry period only applies to current versions of Advantage software.

There's no live updates with the old software, the last database update was done in Aug '07 from memory.
Most models with the exception of some BFII's, Boss 302 BF's and FG can still be supported.
See if your tuner has the old version of Advantage V2.9 to tune your XCal1 box.

I knew there was a reason why I kept it going on an old laptop

[Badcooky]

Actually blaming the onseller for delinquency may just be a ruse.
This may be to cover the shut down the early Flash boxes.

[jetute]

Originally Posted by Charlie@sct

What name is on the outside of your tuner box?

mine actually says sct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

I was the first person in brisbane to buy one (as I told you in my email) and the frst boxes actullay rolled out with sct stickers

[snappy]

See if your tuner has the old version of Advantage V2.9 to tune your XCal1 box.

start burning that program tvs i think there is going to be alot of dealers needing it.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Badcooky

Actually blaming the onseller for delinquency may just be a ruse.
This may be to cover the shut down the early Flash boxes.

It is possible and the exact reason I have previously asked SCT to provide reasoning for their heavy handed and potentially ilegal decision.

There are certainly other options that have been put forward that are considerable less inflammatory.

According to the poll running, after only a couple of hours, near on 85% of people have indicated they will not use SCT in the future. That is a lot of bad PR and I am sure no company would like to see that. I wonder if Charlie has thought "bugger, maybe that was not a good idea" at any stage?

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by jetute

mine actually says sct!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

I was the first person in brisbane to buy one (as I told you in my email) and the frst boxes actullay rolled out with sct stickers

+1 :

Mine has SCT on it to, take a look:

[Daymoe]

Is it just me, or does that thing have an ancient serial port on it?

[data_mine]

It's actually a DB15 port much like a VGA video connection, but yeah it runs a serial connection over it.