Australian Drivers Are Ignoring LPG

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by MO

It seems you were behind the door when the evolution bus loaded and left.
In future before you open your keyboard do some research into what you saying,
Now I must go and sort out the maintenance of the gene pool chlorinator.

DELETE

[Thankfull]

Well I am currently waiting on a well sorted fuel efficent direct injection LPG V8 by Ford to go into production at Geelong in 2010.

We are going to buy one......

[MO]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

DELETE

What part of my quote in your post dont you understand?

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by MO

The concern of some is the rupture of the cylinder in an accident which would/ could lead to it becoming a BLEVE.
Now instead of me spending the next hour explaining this why don't you use google.
And just for a taster when lpg escapes in an uncontrolled manner it expands at roughly 270x.

Ummm I know that (I bet you picked that expansion figure out of the LPG forum just like I did, thread about a truck at a servo right?) but it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
If you bothered to read what I said you wouldn't be arguing with me.

Of course it can explode if the cylinder is ruptured that's a leak for god sake. If it's pressurised it cannot ignite which is what I've been saying the entire time.

I'm talking about people who think if a gas line leak it's going to ignite all the way back to the tank and boom, which is impossible due to pressure (and valves too). I made this situation I was describing quite clear in the second post of this thread which was made before you ignorantly commented.

For no reason you've brought all these other external factors into place that a 2 year old could account for and ASSUMED I was neglecting them despite describing the situation I was discussing in my second post.

Learn to interpret things correctly then talk to me.

EDIT: From my first post:

"It's pressurised for gods sake, petrol isn't. How can something ignite when the pressure is exponentially higher than the outside atmosphere."

How did you not realise I was talking about a pressurised tank? It's direct English for gods sake. Are you also going to tell me it'll explode if someone pulls a chain saw to it? Please tell me more things I don't know.

Incase you still don't get it (which I'm accounting for by typing this) I'm talking pressurised LPG when you aren't.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by MO

What part of my quote in your post dont you understand?

What part of every post in my thread don't you understand/blindly misinterpet?

Oh wait EVERYTHING!

EDIT: I also said this before you mentioned rupturing:

Flammable meaning it's ignited easier what I'm saying is it cannot ignite period in a tank due to lack of oxygen unless the pressure/heat is interfered with (maniplulating the tanks pressure), you can't start a fire without oxygen.

And then you mention a BLEVE? Oh god.

[GK]

Great thread everyone!

I like LPG.

The family wagon (AU) runs fine with a mixer ring setup. It's on the third converter though, and the first factory fitted Tickford item was running so rich, I did a head.

Sadly that was well before I understood much about LPG.

The sedan (AUII) runs an IMPCO gas carby system which over time I've learn to tune. Hopefully no trips to the gas specialist will be needed for a while. This car has a sports exhaust, extractors a 3:7 diff, a five speed and really does well considering the LPG power loss and extra gas system weight.

As for savings, I reckon I'm about $30 a week each vehicle better off, however that is negated by the need for more regular servicing. I would estimate that as $20 per vehicle better off, which is about $2,000 a year better off.

GK

[MO]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

What I don't get is idiots who should be isolated form the public whom rant over LPG exploding.

It's pressurised for gods sake, petrol isn't. How can something ignite when the pressure is exponentially lower than the outside atmosphere. These same people would probably argue water is an explosive, why not, it's pretty much the same principle that they argue with LPG?

It's like believing a AA battery left in the sun could become unstable and cause an explosion 2km in diameter.

I rest my case you cant even remember what you wrote i.e.' exponentially LOWER.'

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

so much complete BS here on the old mixer system being terrible rubbish .

It's true. It's true.!!

We've had our Barge on Gas -Impco- for the last 4 years (appx 60,000kms) and in that time we've had to replace...
A full set of tyres.
Two batteries.
A few oil changes.
One set of plugs and leads (30,000 kms ago)
One air filter.

AND I still have to put gas in it weekly!!


This reminds me, I must get the free 1,000km service done soon.

[Falcon Coupe]

MO and ILLaViTaR, your discussion is not helping the topic, take it to pm please.

[prydey]

people generally pass verdict based on personal experience. i had an el wagon on duel fuel with an 'elko' system. based on that experience, i said i would never own another gas car as long as i live. i now own a bf2 egas. the decision to buy an egas was made easier when a couple of years ago my brother bought an au egas wagon. that was the total opposite to my previous experience.

i would still be a bit dubious about another dual fuel car but i think a lot of issues don't come from the 'type' of system, but from the 'installer/setup' of the system.

the beauty of liquid injection is it intercepts the signals from the factory ecu. this eliminates a lot of the issues with other gas systems, including vapour.

[brenx]

The older systems were expensive to maintain due to the way the filter setup was. Now with screw on filters LPG couldn't be easier IMO. I know if I buy a large car it will be on gas.

[z80]

Originally Posted by prydey

the beauty of liquid injection is it intercepts the signals from the factory ecu. this eliminates a lot of the issues with other gas systems, including vapour.

Vapour Injection does exactly the same thing now.


The only thing to watch out for now is when you get a bad batch of gas it can block your MAP sensor(s).

An inline filter on the vaccuum line fixes that.

[TURBOTAXI]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

You do realise that if it were a more widely used fuel there would be greater demand for it.
Therefore petrol outlets would have more incentive to discount LPG - therefore making it cheaper...

Didnt work with petrol.

[TURBOTAXI]

Clearly I love LPG, I have two turbo falcons on LPG and get fantastic economy.
My mother is 65 and is always flat out with work. She bought an EL Fairlane a few years back with 112k and has just hit 320k Its on LPG of course.

Its a choice thing, its a bit like investing, people know they should do SOMETHING to secure their future/improve their financial situation, but the percentage of people who actually go out and do something is surprisingly small.

People tend to take the path of least resistance, and most of the time only do what needs to be done to minimise discomfort. If they are managing to meet committments buying petrol they are less likely to do anything about it.

I dont really care if more people go to LPG, I know I save a motza with about 55,000k's per years between the two cars.

[Stoney!]

Can't say I am a massive fan of LPG either, small capacity turbo and diesel all the way.

Stoney!

[Mr Hardware]

Can't say I am a massive fan of LPG either, small capacity turbo and diesel all the way

And if you added LPG Fumigation to that, it'd go quicker, the turbo spin up sooner and you'd get better economy and less sooting. LPG IS MAGIC

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

And if you added LPG Fumigation to that, it'd go quicker, the turbo spin up sooner and you'd get better economy and less sooting. LPG IS MAGIC

mag⋅ic

–noun 1. the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring: to pull a rabbit out of a hat by magic

ref: www.dictionary.com

[santb]

Originally Posted by Chilla

If the federal government were fair dinkum about converting OZ drivers to lpg then the pump price would be 15cents/litre and they would cough up more than their current offers of $2000 subsidy on new vehicles and $1750 on second hand, to convert. Charity begins at home Mr. Rudd. If we can afford to import lpg for the low prices we currently are, whats stopping us selling it here for a realistic price. Wake up Australia!

yes! except we export a LOT of natural gas, so you would think that it should already be cheap as for us..

[Road_Warrior]

[QUOTE=TURBOTAXI]
Its a choice thing, its a bit like investing, people know they should do SOMETHING to secure their future/improve their financial situation, but the percentage of people who actually go out and do something is surprisingly small.

/QUOTE]

Which is why I had my car gas converted. I want to try to minimise my family's exposure to petrol/oil as much as I can and LPG was a good way to start.

[NC 5ltr]

i own a HC which is a fairlane and have had it for over 3 years on lpg and the only problem ive had was the injectors sh!tting themselves after 300k

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by z80

Vapour Injection does exactly the same thing now.


The only thing to watch out for now is when you get a bad batch of gas it can block your MAP sensor(s).

An inline filter on the vaccuum line fixes that.

Vapour injection reads the signal then applies whatever timing/mapping is tuned into the ECU to it. LI uses the signal to fire the injectors without this interpretation/tuning in the middle.

Im not sure thats why Australians are ignoring LPG though.

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by flappist

mag⋅ic

–noun 1. the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring: to pull a rabbit out of a hat by magic

ref: www.dictionary.com

Sorry flap I usually see eye to eye with you but magic, in my opinion, is a thread appearing in the LPG forum or LPG related that doesnt end up as a petrol/LPG and/or mixer/SVI/LI bunfight with a lock on it.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

Im not sure thats why Australians are ignoring LPG though.

Well in that you are NOT one of the LPG zealots I will give you a few reasons why I suspect ordinary people may not be interested in pure LPG, LPG conversion or Dual Fuel:

1) Availability.
Despite all the hoopla about LPG being everywhere it is not. Even in places that sell LPG it is not uncommon for it to be "waiting for the tanker". This was the same problem with 95RON 6 years ago but you can't stick a bottle of octane booster into ULP to make a LPG (not dual) car run can you?

2) Safety.
Regardless of all of the raving by the true believers it must be stored in a pressure vessel and filled using specialised techniques. Many drivers (e.g. women or older people) do not like the idea of having to use the gas pump or having their children sitting next to a pressure vessel.
Whether or not it is safe is irrelevant, how many would let their children play with an unloaded handgun?

3) Stigma.
LPG is perceived by many as "cheap taxi fuel used by people who cannot afford proper petrol". Look at this thread. All the pro LPG members are driving old cars and rave about minor money savings (The savings on a LPG falcon would take over 10 years to offset the resale loss on a GT after 1 year). If you really want to save money buy a hybrid or little diesel. (both of which also have not taken off)

4) Tradition.
Australia, the country where N/A large V8 RWD large cars that have not changed in basic design theory in 40 years are huge sellers.

The History of Holden/Falcon:
Bigger more powerful engine....success
Higher performance and speed....success
Bling and bodykits.....success
Bigger heavier more luxurious body....success
RWD....success

AWD....failure
FWD....failure
Smaller size....failure
Aerodynamic modern shape.....failure
Smaller more economic engines (starfire/EA3.2 etc)...failure
Weird fuel.(E85, E10 and now LPG).....

5) Price.
While at the moment LPG is very cheap in Sydney in Melbourne it is much more expensive in other places so the extreme savings are not consistant. The low cost is also directly dependant on a lack of federal government excise which can be added at any time.
Now before all the web links showing all the promises of future low price I remember petrol being 8c/l cheaper here just a couple of months ago and I remember a guarantee that there would NEVER be a GST and I remember no child would be living in poverty by 1990. Governments tend to have fuzzy memories when it comes to tax promises.

6) Resale.
What sort of realse price to you expect to get when you are selling your car into a market made up of tight ***** whose main focus is not spending any more money than they absolutely have to......

So with all these negatives and the ONLY positive is that you may spend a little less on fuel it is not a real mystery why LPG is not popular with most people.

[z80]

The above post is an opinion based on a petrol head forum community consensus and should not be considered as indicative of the real world.


It is a delusion to think that the majority of cars on the road are large full sized rear wheel drives.

In fact if you look around you at the lights it is almost spot the holden or ford as a rarity in some towns.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by flappist

3) Stigma.
LPG is perceived by many as "cheap taxi fuel used by people who cannot afford proper petrol". Look at this thread. All the pro LPG members are driving old cars and rave about minor money savings (The savings on a LPG falcon would take over 10 years to offset the resale loss on a GT after 1 year). If you really want to save money buy a hybrid or little diesel. (both of which also have not taken off)

Yeah, the kids called it 'povo' fuel.

I wouldnt convert to it because it would then limit the large boot and render the useful fold down back seat useless. And I get around 9.7 lt/100km in everyday driving anyway so it would take quite a while to pay for itself. And it introduces something else that can go wrong, when its working so great atm.

[gtfpv]

flappist you have finally surprised me . thats the 1st post in a long time where you have managed not to put absolute sh it on others .
make some valid points too . however as far as only tight ***** using LPG . I DETER . most lpg users like myself are big car lovers , hence one GT in the garage , and a safe bigger work car old on lpg that can go anywhere at a moments notice ie : any car park anywhere , down a boat ramp, through a flood,into a lake or straight to the wreckers, ahh the joy of motoring freedom. rather than a little hyundi getz.

[PoweredByCNG]

So people don't like putting their kids next to a pressure vessel.

What's so different about putting their kids next to a thin plastic petrol tank? The petrol tank is infinitely more prone to explosion due to it's simple nature and the fact that petrol readily ignites compared to LPG.

People aren't interested in LPG simply because THEY DON'T KNOW. Petrol and diesel are considered 'mainstream' enough that any safety concerns are overlooked by most.

Regards,
Dave

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by z80

The above post is an opinion based on a petrol head forum community consensus and should not be considered as indicative of the real world.

The same can be said of the whole thread. I'll invite flappist to revisit his post in 5 and then again in 10 years time. Talk about a herd of ostriches with their heads in the ground. So the oil will last forever, I'm reassured. :togo:

[RG]

Originally Posted by new2ford

The same can be said of the whole thread. I'll invite flappist to revisit his post in 5 and then again in 10 years time. Talk about a herd of ostriches with their heads in the ground. So the oil will last forever, I'm reassured. :togo:

You obviously are a victim of the scare tactics telling you that the world is going to end / the sky is falling / global warming / global cooling / we are about to run out of oil and other such rubbish.

Maybe have a look into how much oil is left, a little research and then come back here. I'm quite sure you will find that there is a bit more oil than you think.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by RG

You obviously are a victim of the scare tactics telling you that the world is going to end / the sky is falling / global warming / global cooling / we are about to run out of oil and other such rubbish.

Maybe have a look into how much oil is left, a little research and then come back here. I'm quite sure you will find that there is a bit more oil than you think.

Perhaps you should have a good look, and also consider all the surrounding factors such as international politics and price which will all come to bear. The owners of gas cars will have the last laugh.