New Falcon engines - which would you buy?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Yes thats exactly what I was thinking. And like many people who live on the coast you MUST be thinking that the coast is the centre of the universe.

You can read my location above my post count.
So I never drive anywhere else?

Yes on a highway with 1 servo that has 1 LPG pump, 3 petrol (which quite often don't work) and 2 diesel pumps.

Yes we have had this conversation before. You are on the intersection of two main roads.
Even up here if you stick to the highways you have no problems with "exotic" fuels i.e. anything other than ULP and diesel but as soon as you wander off the main roads it gets sketchy and while you can get away with ULP and some goo but pure LPG has a choice of LPG or walking.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by buggo_gt

I chose 4l 6. There's something about having a 2l 4 that I don't think belongs in a Falcon, and I'd be a little embaressed to answer 'what engine did you get?' when I mention I bought a new Falcon.
IDK maybe I'm shallow and vain.

+1

When the first "fuel shock" arrived, GM/H shrunk from the mighty Kinga/Statesman size to a "small" Commodore mid OPEL hand-me-down midsized, they then fitted a 4 cylinder so everybody would immediatly think it would be economical.

Was a total failure, hardly any 4cyl where sold [they used as much as the 6 anyway, a drove like a dog] and then everybody thought the Commodre was a small "economical" car.

Took GM/H a generation, till the VN, then pushed it like hell [marketing] that it was a BIG full size vehicle again, 4 cyl never returned, most likely never will, and for 15 years it has been the #1 selling vehicle in AUS.

The ecoboost will use less fuel than the IL6, thats a fact, the question is it will be a small saving, say from 9.9l/100km to 7.9l/100km and/or similar, why bother with it.

THE only way i can see how it would work is if they sell it cheaper than the IL6, least you can take a saving up front.

PS/ FORD [and you too Holden] are WELL know for letting its customers do the final development work on said new vehicles and get the bugs out, i would NOT be handing over my coin till generation 2

[blackf6]

if they are going to go 4cly with the falcon they might as well just get rid of it. and just start building focus and mondeo in australia. i kow myself for 1 wouldn't even consider a 4 cyl faclon.

[Joe5619]

RASERThe ecoboost will use less fuel than the IL6, thats a fact, the question is it will be a small saving, say from 9.9l/100kn to 7.9l/100km and/or similar, why bother with it.

This is when I laugh the most.. 20% fuel saving is MASSIVE & allot of small cars use this amount of fuel & any diesel engine in a Falcon would also use is this amount of fuel. 7.9L/km for a large car is Fantastic fuel economy. I don’t even think a hybrid would get much better in a Falcon than 7.9L/km!!

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes we have had this conversation before. You are on the intersection of two main roads.
Even up here if you stick to the highways you have no problems with "exotic" fuels i.e. anything other than ULP and diesel but as soon as you wander off the main roads it gets sketchy and while you can get away with ULP and some goo but pure LPG has a choice of LPG or walking.

We have. Like I said I have never had trouble getting LPG and I don't stick to the main highways. I can't say I have ever run out of any fuel be it the LPG, petrol or diesel vehicles I have owned.

At the end of the day people (should) buy vehicles that suit their needs. Obviously a mono fuel Lpg vehicle isn't going to suit everyone and it is perfectly clear they aren't for you but there are many others who it would suit perfectly. Many others won't even consider it because of perceived pitfalls whether based on fact or myth.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

This is when I laugh the most.. 20% fuel saving is MASSIVE & allot of small cars use this amount of fuel & any diesel engine in a Falcon would also use is this amount of fuel. 7.9L/km for a large car is Fantastic fuel economy. I don’t even think a hybrid would get much better in a Falcon than 7.9L/km!!

Yes, 20% [If it's that?, i just guesstimated it] does indeed look good, BUT if they do-a-diesel and you have to pay $2k more for the said 4cyl. its going to take THOUSANDS of km's to make back that saving.

So that FORD "look good" they will keep the IL6 "old school" as it is, instead of say giving it direct injection, displacement on demand, and fitting FIAT's brilliant Multiair head on it, they did all these 3 they could well save 20%, then the 4cyl. would not look so good.

Anyway, at the end of the day the new LPGi will kill it in the $/km factor...END-OF-STORY!

[redman]

LPG all the way. It doesn't matter that it more litres per 100km than the ecoboost as they they are very cheap litres. You have to love the idea of 500km for $40 ~ $45.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by RASER

Yes, 20% [If it's that?, i just guesstimated it] does indeed look good, BUT if they do-a-diesel and you have to pay $2k more for the said 4cyl. its going to take THOUSANDS of km's to make back that saving.

So that FORD "look good" they will keep the IL6 "old school" as it is, instead of say giving it direct injection, displacement on demand, and fitting FIAT's brilliant Multiair head on it, they did all these 3 they could well save 20%, then the 4cyl. would not look so good.

Anyway, at the end of the day the new LPGi will kill it in the $/km factor...END-OF-STORY!

Do you seriously think Fiat would just hand over their technology to Ford. They have exclusive use of it and wouldn't not on sell it to anyway, bar Chrysler, which they now own, and they are Fords competitor in the US.

Fords fuel saving tech is Ecoboost, which the 4 cylinder has.

One other factor you aren't considering about a 4 cylinder Falcon is that it will have access to fleets with 4 cylinder only policies, which the current Falcon does not have access to, and apparently its a fairly big market.

[RASER]

[quote=Bossxr8]Do you seriously think Fiat would just hand over their technology to Ford. quote]

FIAT invented CommonRail and sold it to Bosch, now everybody uses it, its business.

Fiat [FPT] will happily "loan" the technology to other brands for a fee.

First cab off the rank is fit it to every single donk they make and prove it in the world.

Lets wait and see, the Multiair system is like a free kick in engine design

[Badcooky]

I'd pick the I6 AND THEN TURBO it.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by RASER

+1

When the first "fuel shock" arrived, GM/H shrunk from the mighty Kinga/Statesman size to a "small" Commodore mid OPEL hand-me-down midsized, they then fitted a 4 cylinder so everybody would immediatly think it would be economical.

Was a total failure, hardly any 4cyl where sold [they used as much as the 6 anyway, a drove like a dog] and then everybody thought the Commodre was a small "economical" car.

Fact is our Ecoboost (Bluetech really) 1.8 has more power and torque than 5.0 carby motor, that people chose over the Starfire 4


But the Starfire 4 (missfire 4 ?) was really a 202 i6 with the back 2 cylinders missing. So you had a 1960's pushrod 6 converted to a pushrod 4. Was it ever going to be a good thing??

How can you compare that to a modern DOHC engine with intercooled turbocharging and advanced EFI???

Hell while your at it, why don't you write off the new FPV Coyote/Miami engine, the old 221ci flatheads didn't go that hard either.

[Bobman]

No-brainer. 4.0 I6 on liquid injection LPG.

As the old saying goes "2 litres only comes in Milk", haha. That kind of engine on petrol could never offer much for a 1800 kilogram sedan with the way Falcons are driven / expected to perform etc as the I6 does.

[ianrm57]

I run a pilot car on dedicated LPG (175 litres in total after adding a tank) its a pain without petrol and there are a lot of jobs I would not attempt. tho doing at least 120,000k a year the savings are considerable. I looked into aftermarket liquid injection for a future BA or BF on petrol, but apparently you can't run a second tank on liquid injection.
The main thing that turned me off liquid injection, is the fact that beeing injected in liquid form, there is always excess LPG beeing returned to the tank (the same as a petrol falcon or any deisel). Now this LPG beeing returned to the tank is hot/warm, seeing it comes from the engine area, over time temperatures rise in the tank, and there will be a lot of servos which will not give you any gas as the internal temp/pressure on your tank is too high. I have run accross this a few times (not many) on my non injected falcon, in very hot areas. It will really make your day having to wait a few hours in the middle of nowhere while your tank cools before you can fuel up. Though you guys should know all the "facts". Cheers,,,Ian

[b0son]

If I needed a big car for its carrying capacity and economy was a concern, it would be the 2.0. Why buy a big car that already has crap in the boot?

[bullko]

Originally Posted by clarkey117

sorry then my mistake not interested in economy or the environment

Nor am I Clarky

[Romulus]

I picked EB4.

For those that say private buyers won't buy it, exactly what percentage of new Falcon sales are private sales?

EB4 gets Falcon it's foot in the door with a lot of fleet and government agencies with a 4 cylinder only policy as mentioned elsewhere in this thread. It should also have a lower CO2 rating than Commodore. Again that's a winner as it will trump Commodore on two fronts; Commodore does not have a 4 cylinder engine and the 3.0 SIDI won't compete on CO2 output. So now Falcon is able to compete with Toyota, Mitsubishi, the raft of Korean and other imported vehicles.

I personally wouldn't buy one, neither would I buy one for work. The LILPG has benefits for a work vehicle (think Falcon ute) but I'd want one with a decent tank capacity (120-150l). Come to think of it I'd prefer a diesel ute option.

EB4 on LILPG, now there's a propasal!

[kpcart]

[QUOTE=You Yangs]
I HATE the smell of gas and will never buy a gas vehicle for that reason,\QUOTE]

LOL thats a new one for me, someone picking a car based on the smell of the fuel? lol, when are you likely to have your noise up the exhaust pipe?
i dont particularly think petrol or diesel smell better then gas, but im not one that sniffs substances.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by You Yangs

I voted for I4T because in my opinion LPG is a fuel for Forklifts and Taxis.
I HATE the smell of gas and will never buy a gas vehicle for that reason FUEL ECONOMY!

Modern generation LPG systems don't have that old known "lpg smell" [Dawson]

They smell more like hot hydralic oil [well all mine have]

Only badly tuned/worn systems have that odd smell

LPG is NOT ecomomical on usage, its cheap to run because the price of the fuel is low [still a rip off though!]

[4.0i OHC]

I'd have to vote for the 4 litre. The 4 litre six contributes greatly to that Falcon 'feel' which many (including myself) love; the 2 litre may not be able to replicate the smoothness of the I6. As well as this, power and torque outputs of the EcoBoost are lower.

Besides, thanks to laws designed to magically reduce the road toll of a subset of the population percieved to be reckless and idiotic, I won't be able to drive the 2 litre turbo for a few years.

[Resurrection]

Now the vehicle has been tested by the media, would anybody be willing to change their opinion if they had to choose one of these new engines?

Deliveries of EcoLPI start this month.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Now the vehicle has been tested by the media, would anybody be willing to change their opinion if they had to choose one of these new engines?

Deliveries of EcoLPI start this month.

Well the 2L hasn't so bit early isn't it?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Now the vehicle has been tested by the media, would anybody be willing to change their opinion if they had to choose one of these new engines?

Deliveries of EcoLPI start this month.

110% no.. I4 over GAS powered anyday!!

[davenl5l]

2l = milk,juice or soft drink

[Uncle Niceguy]

what about the engine you find in the xr5t power, economy and still a turbo petrol car with reasonble power output at 166kw and 320nm opinions???

[falconnut]

4L 6Cyl with Turbo :p

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by eb-fairmont

what about the engine you find in the xr5t power, economy and still a turbo petrol car with reasonble power output at 166kw and 320nm opinions???

Its no longer used by Ford, and is being phased out by Volvo.

The engine in the new Focus XR4?, 2 litre Ecoboost will be a near identical engine to the one to be used in Falcon next year.

[falconnut]

250kw Electric motor Telsa designed AWD system.

[mik]

Originally Posted by falconnut

250kw Electric motor Telsa designed AWD system.

your being funny are`nt you...........

[Franco Cozzo]

Personally, the Ecoboost 4 cylinder for me, I'd love to see its potential, particularily with modding.

Might possibly have the next best thing since the SR20 on our hands here boys.

[billy302]

well I already own 2 Falcons with the I6 after several years of having V8's.
I wouldn't buy another 8 unless I returned to the country to live.
My vote would be either an Ecoboost 4 or better still an Ecoboost V6.
I know there are many fans of the I6 Falcon, but you have to ask the question how many are willing to Pay for a brand new one. My bet is that not many of those saying keep the I6 would buy a new one. Ford sales indicate that it is no longer the preferred option or indeed the preferred car