Customers to decide Falcon ute future

[Falc'man]

Who likes Thai food?

[BFZ Wagon]

All companies (regardless of whether or not they manufacture cars) will only ever rely on figures and focus group results to make decisions on what to make or put out into the market.

It's sad that the decisions of a few people can make or break a product or even a company and all of that effects many many people out there.

If Ford was serious about doing anything with Australia's unique models past a certain point, they would have already done something by now or even looked into a global program where the model from here is exported into the rest of the world. Ford NA obviously don't want to do this.

So, as this clearly isn't going to happen, whatever happens next will happen and the people at FoA, the dealers and customers will just have to wait and see what the future brings and either adapt or move on to something else.

I don't know if any of that makes any sense but just wanted to put it out there.

[ghostwhowalks]

No falcon Ute = UN-AUSTRALIAN!!!!!!!

[DanielXR8]

That's a cop out answer from Ford. If the customer had anything to do with deciding the fate of Ford Australia's business, there would be a lot of dealer principals over the years who would find themselves without a Ford franchise.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Problem is BMW isn't built on an Australian R&D budget, sold on similar to local profit margins, or built only on Australian volumes.

To be fair a lot of those reasons have to do with Ford US refusing to give the Falcon an international market to get those volumes and profit margins etc. I'm not sure BMW management would ever be so silly as to marginalise a product like Ford have.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

To be fair a lot of those reasons have to do with Ford US refusing to give the Falcon an international market to get those volumes and profit margins etc. I'm not sure BMW management would ever be so silly as to marginalise a product like Ford have.

100%

Americans (IMHO) are very challenged when it come to trying to run an international company. I really don't know why this is, and I don't mean this in a racist way.
For many years American companies, no matter how multinational, have derived most of their business on home soil. This worked for many years and has impacted every significant business decision.
.... but this is now the thing that MUST CHANGE if Ford is to be more than a marginal niche operator in Australia.

Japanese are much better at managing true international companies.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

100%

Americans (IMHO) are very challenged when it come to trying to run an international company. I really don't know why this is, and I don't mean this in a racist way.
For many years American companies, no matter how multinational, have derived most of their business on home soil. This worked for many years and has impacted every significant business decision.
.... but this is now the thing that MUST CHANGE if Ford is to be more than a marginal niche operator in Australia.

Japanese are much better at managing true international companies.

Absolutely spot on. Just look at the US economic situation, they still operate like its 1957 in the post war boom years.
I think Ford has finaly realised it must use its Euro capability as they are very good , but I feel Australia is being used as a stop gap while their Asian manufacturing and design gets up and running.

[KBC]

We are supposed to be a proud country and here is ford killing off an icon. It would be up there with vegemite being that every one knows what a Falcon is.
I have read other forums from people in the US of A and they have gone on to say they liked the falcon and would buy one over the mustang because of the package and 4 doors. When Herrod can take a stock Falcon give a little tweak and kick **** against the likes of AMG why are we not exporting. Make a police pack send it over and test the waters!

[Buntz]

Start sending in your emails folks. If Ford listens to consumers like they say they do... then they should hear the ones that cannot imagine an Australia where the creator of the ute no longer makes a ute.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

100%

Americans (IMHO) are very challenged when it come to trying to run an international company. I really don't know why this is, and I don't mean this in a racist way.
For many years American companies, no matter how multinational, have derived most of their business on home soil. This worked for many years and has impacted every significant business decision.
.... but this is now the thing that MUST CHANGE if Ford is to be more than a marginal niche operator in Australia.

Japanese are much better at managing true international companies.

Does Toyota make a car-based RWD ute? No! So why can't Ford get away without making one? Look, Australia is a small car market in the world, and I don't think any company is going to make vehicles unique to that (or any other) market for too much longer. It just does not fit in with Ford's global agenda.

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Does Toyota make a car-based RWD ute? No! So why can't Ford get away without making one? Look, Australia is a small car market in the world, and I don't think any company is going to make vehicles unique to that (or any other) market for too much longer. It just does not fit in with Ford's global agenda.

Yeah .. international companies would rather spend money building a specialised FWD sedan platform, another performance RWD coupe platform, another AWD platform for a wagon (SUV) and a full-chassis platform for a pickup. Previously Australian manufacturers just built one platform and modified to sedan, coupe, wagon, ute. I suppose what appears like a logical decision is anything but .. very sad ..

[chevypower]

I guess that's a good benefit to global products, they can be distinctly different from each other and still be good quality.

[munners]

If you read this article it appears that Alan Mulally wanted FG in the states (article was in 2008) but it was not compatible with the CAFE regulations so it was a no go. He still gave the car a pretty good rap so it seems odd that it never got any further.
I'm still not convinced that the "Falcon" nameplate will vanish as long as he is in charge. There is so much history to the model and name and he made Ford NA bring back the Taurus name in the states for that exact reason. If the Falcon has to evolve to survive is that such a bad thing? Is it possible we could build a Falcon badged Taurus with tweeks to suit our roads etc here?

Munners

[TheSneakiness]

Why people keep whinging about the XR8 I'll never know. It's not going to be made for the foreseeable future.

I'm going to agree with flappist here, support the brand and part with your hard earned on a NEW car, not some cheap second hand or demo model cause your scared on the depreciation that instantly happens the second you place your foot on the carpet the first time ever.

Then your precious models won't go missing because they are being supported by Joe Public.

It is simple business 101, offer a product, does it sell? If yes, then continue to offer product. If no, re-evaluate and continue from that decision.

Will I support a new model? If I could afford it we'd be jumping into a EcoLPI FG XT, but that ain't gonna happen unless I get greater than $45000 trade in on my Paj, and NO dealer will offer that.

[FGXR6TUTE]

It's ok guys, Ford's now going to increase ute sales with the new XR6 Limited Edition!

http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/Satel...oller&site=FOA

Which includes the FPV BA Typhoon rims... I must have predicted the future when I fiited them to mine in 2008 (18's to clear the Brembo's),
OR... NSW Police have cancelled XR6T orders and they now have a load of surplus rims in stock?

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Does Toyota make a car-based RWD ute? No! So why can't Ford get away without making one? Look, Australia is a small car market in the world, and I don't think any company is going to make vehicles unique to that (or any other) market for too much longer. It just does not fit in with Ford's global agenda.

Well they need to make a place for it in the global agenda. The unique design and manufacturing ability here needs to be incorporated so it can be leveraged in other places.

Which is where it was instrumental in the development of the award winning Figo small car, and the calibrating of their manufacturing facilities by Ford experts from Oz. Then all new Ranger. A global car developed here by our skill.

All this though came from 50 years of designing, manufacturing, and honing the Falcon to what it is today.... that angry looking black beast on the top of the forum pages making car people happy in the pants.

Falcon needs to become twins under skin with Mustang... and go to America wearing a lincoln badge.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Does Toyota make a car-based RWD ute? No! So why can't Ford get away without making one? Look, Australia is a small car market in the world, and I don't think any company is going to make vehicles unique to that (or any other) market for too much longer. It just does not fit in with Ford's global agenda.

Sorry Dude, I did not mean for this to come across personally.

In The US, both last month and year to date the Panther platform sedan sales were within 10% of D3 platform sedan sales (if I am reading the figures correctly ). A deleted product is selling 90% of the new chosen child !
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...4/#post2351978

Falcon is a better match to Panther than D3, and yet it is ignored.

Is this related to Utes - Yes.
The push is to use a platform perceived to be American as the only One Ford large sedan. This is what is killing the Falcon here. Had the Falcon Platform been chosen to run alongside the D3/4, Ford Australia would have a direction to communicate to the public instead of this drivel.

Frankly I wish the Ford team would just keep quite - this talk will kill sales more !

Please forgive my passion, and do not take it personally - I do not want to buy a commodore as my next new car purchase, and the current Taurus is smaller on the inside, larger on the outside and is not RWD (or at least have a longitudinal AWD system - no v8 option) - I really cannot see my next new car purchase going there.

Ford - Pull your finger out, tell us what you are actually going to do and let me figure out how a VW will meet my needs.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Well they need to make a place for it in the global agenda.

I am sure Ford will, whether it be developing a whole car, or contributing to the development of one or a few, who knows? I'm sure Ford will keep at least one plant open in Australia.

[Road_Warrior]

I think the chances of the plant staying open are much stronger than the Falcon continuing post-2016.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by flappist

So what do you ACTUALLY want to buy?
With real money......

Not what you think others want to buy just because you think it is really cool.

All the negative people here. Sezzy is right, you only want it because you can't have it and when you can have it you don't want it.

FPV GS V8 ute, THE FASTEST UTE EVER SOLD is available for about the same price as a 2003 XR8 and less than any Pursuit ever.....whinge whinge

XR6/XR6T ute...what is the problem with them?

LPG ute? Maybe they will release it after the car is selling or maybe they think that tradies will not put up with the goo instead of a real spare tyre as they tend to drive in places other than smooth urban roads.

I have not seen any posts in here from tradies who have ever bought a new falcon (or holden for that matter) ute and just a couple from "weekend warrior" lifestyle ute buyers.

Oh and I recently bought a new Ford ute, a Ranger, because it was 4WD, twin cab, ran on diesel and has good ground clearance.

I thought that was a better idea than just sooking about falcon ute not having any of those features and spitting dummies until they did......

If you havent realized from my postings in all the XR8 threads what car I would be interested in then we have been "discussing" for nothing.

If I want a new car I can buy it tomorrow. But shock horror a new car is not a priority for me and it would only take a complete failure of my current car to buy one (of any make). It is not our responsibility to save a company, they need to entice us.

Who cares that the GS is the fastest ute, it could have 400kws and not make a difference. All these options you are listing are good cars but why would I settle for something that doesnt overly spark my interest?

People on AFF are not going to save Ford, even if half the active members all brought one, its the non Ford people or swingers out there that dont want a bar of Ford and thats the problem (most for valid reasons).

You havent seen any posts from tradies because hopefully they are all working, unless its spitting with rain or they work on the Gold Coast.

You say you brought a Ranger, really, well I brought a Lambo last week, goes alright but its a bastard to keep clean. Point is it doesnt matter what you have brought, own or dont own, everyone has a right to an opinion. There are many ways to sample products and ownership is not the only way. Heck there are engineers etc that work for Ford/FPV that dont own, never have owned, or never will buy their own product even with the discount. So would you question their opinion too?

Ford are continuously downsizing their range, and with some models fair enough its normal (fairlane for example, based off wagon but had alot of unique parts. The RTV on the other hand had next to no marketing, stuff all spent on it and it and had a few mechanicals that were unique; not an overly expensive program), but when they downsize to the point when they rely on few configurations and they dont get it right, or the market perceives it as not being right then they are against the wall.

My point is whether its deliberate or not, Ford are making the case for the Falcon not continuing an all too easy decision.

[Polyal]

Also taking a step back its not hard to see why Ford would look at getting rid of the local variants considering the volumes, even if they peaked up to their best. They have made the move, finally, to globalize the company properly.

Falcon Ute = Ranger
Territory = Explorer or T6 Wagon

So then you are left with a "need" for a RWD sedan, if that need is still there, IMO the only possibility is

Falcon = based off GWRD or it will be whatever version is around. We will get a sporty version and a luxury version and if FPV are still around they will sell Mustangs or hot up (Australianise) the GRWD car a bit further.

Worst case we get Taurus/Mondeo full time but while Mondeo is selling ok it clearly is not a Falcon replacement.

Its hard to see it working any other way, best case we get to design the body work/interior for a GRWD car to suit our market because history shows using a global design has not worked in the past.

Problem is no one knows, and Ford are still working it out themselves, the longer its left the more speculation is created and we will hear more doom and gloom from the press. Its almost better to announce the decision either way so people can go out and buy "the last of the falcons" or let it die its natural death.

Fingers crossed we pick up some manufacturing, PD is still go definitely for another 5-6 years; but I think their future is much better as they roll out more product and show their worth. I have heard rumors of development for a car bound to China similar to that of the Indian program.

[Falc'man]

It's bought, not brought.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

It's bought, not brought.

That is true, but not really worth discussing is it? I freely admit to either not particularly caring or double checking my grammar, it seems legible enough.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Polyal

That is true, but not really worth discussing is it? I freely admit to either not particularly caring or double checking my grammar, it seems legible enough.

It can still be annoying enough to lessen the blow on a good argument. And I'm always one for seeing someone put flappist back in his place.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by Polyal

That is true, but not really worth discussing is it? I freely admit to either not particularly caring or double checking my grammar, it seems legible enough.

No, it's not worth discussing.

Looking at One Ford, and seeing that Falcon will spearhead GRWD, there's a good chance it will soldier on but of course we'll need to see how popular T6 will be. If it kills the ute in sales, it'll kill the ute.

[BrisVegas]

Seems to me that Ford Australia will be an importer of vehicles within this decade. Mulally seems to be a believer in the Falcon and leveraging it for the GRWD and Lincoln resurgence. I can see the Falcon/Lincoln being designed here, but built in the lower cost geography that is the USA these days.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by BrisVegas

Seems to me that Ford Australia will be an importer of vehicles within this decade. Mulally seems to be a believer in the Falcon and leveraging it for the GRWD and Lincoln resurgence. I can see the Falcon/Lincoln being designed here, but built in the lower cost geography that is the USA these days.

Never.

We'd keep making our Falcon... and they'd gear up for their own production line. Which would probably be low volume.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

You would have thought that would be a no brainer, much like an Egas Territory would have been a big seller since 2004 but they never did it and don't intend on with the new gas system either.

My dad was talking to another engineer he worked with, on the Ford stand at the AIMS today, and he did the prelimanary design work on the Territory LPG package back in 2004.

Low petrol prices killed it off back then, and it was never bought back even when petrol prices soared a few years later. And the diesel was shelved in 2008, only to be bought back this year.

Way to shoot yourself in the foot Ford.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by flappist

So what do you ACTUALLY want to buy?
With real money......

Not what you think others want to buy just because you think it is really cool.

All the negative people here. Sezzy is right, you only want it because you can't have it and when you can have it you don't want it.

FPV GS V8 ute, THE FASTEST UTE EVER SOLD is available for about the same price as a 2003 XR8 and less than any Pursuit ever.....whinge whinge

XR6/XR6T ute...what is the problem with them?

LPG ute? Maybe they will release it after the car is selling or maybe they think that tradies will not put up with the goo instead of a real spare tyre as they tend to drive in places other than smooth urban roads.

I have not seen any posts in here from tradies who have ever bought a new falcon (or holden for that matter) ute and just a couple from "weekend warrior" lifestyle ute buyers.

Oh and I recently bought a new Ford ute, a Ranger, because it was 4WD, twin cab, ran on diesel and has good ground clearance.

I thought that was a better idea than just sooking about falcon ute not having any of those features and spitting dummies until they did......

If you don't own a Falcon ute what gives you the right to comment on it.

Thats how it goes with you doesn't it?

[SEZ213]

So much animosity directed at a company's previous errors...and fellow forum members...I really had hoped that sooner rather than later we could move past what Ford 'could have done, but didn't'...I highly doubt the repetitious BS is going to highlight anything to Ford if they read this (except perhaps that we're a bunch of whingers - and I'm not having a go...be objective, read back through some of these posts and tell me what you really see).

I understand that all these models grouped together equal 1000 units a month, but that's not how sales stats work, nor is it how marketing works, perhaps it should be...

I understand that there are those who feel very strongly about Ford potentially discontinuing the Ute, and other models that they have/had/will have in the future, but unfortunately that's how business works. Unless we're aware of the full business case that they (FoA) or Ford NA have put forward or are planning to put forward, all we're doing is speculating...which helps Ford how?????