Taurus vs Falcon specs

[dimka100]

Well not necessarily, just have a look at the last Focus RS, that thing will destroy any FPV in the twisty stuff and is not so much slower in a straight line ...

Yes for a FWD performance one can no longer concentrate on tons of silly KWs and burnouts ... it needs to be smart engineering focusing on achieving performance through much improved suspension, smart traction systems, braking, careful engine torque management, weight reduction and other such factors ... something that can be done, but then FPV would probably much rather just stick a large V8s instead ...

Originally Posted by Polyal

Perhaps, but then say goodbye to pretty much all I6T sales and FPV.

[Bossxr8]

He means that no I6 will fit nore V8. That means the end for FPV as they don't touch imports.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

He means that no I6 will fit nore V8. That means the end for FPV as they don't touch imports.

Well they certainly don't seem to be exactly walking out of the showrooms in droves...it's a very tiny market underwritten by the mass sales of other cars by Ford...I can't see how it would support itself as a profitable part of the company. In the Rocky Ford dealership I was surprised to see the same gold supercharged GT sitting inside the showroom...it's been there for probably well over six months if not more...I'm fairly sure this same car was sitting there when we bought our G6E back in February last year in fact.
Every time I go in for a service I check it out, and salesmen descend like a flock of vultures on a corpse and ask if I'm interested in it. I'd imagine that you could get a pretty damn good deal on it, seeing how long its been sitting there.

Ford needs to concentrate on what sells, and if they are serious about the Falcons future, they can no longer depend on died-in-the-wool Ford people who buy on badge alone, no matter how good or bad the car is...there's such a wide range of choice, it's literally hard to buy a "bad" car nowadays, and so many so-called mid-sized cars that compare very well for space, that Falcon can no longer rest on its laurels and traditions to keep selling.

[tomygun_123]

The interior on the new Taurus makes the FG interior look like something awful..

However other than that I prefer the FG..

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by tomygun_123

The interior on the new Taurus makes the FG interior look like something awful..

However other than that I prefer the FG..

After seeing pics of the 2013 Taurus interior, I couldn't agree more . It also doesn't help that alot of taller drivers who wanted to upgrade from BA/BF, found a shorter range of adjustment for seat and steering wheel, so knees make contact with the wheel.
Would it be expensive to transfer voice control and SYNC etc from Focus et al when the development work is already done and alot of Fords share a common module (Fiesta, Focus, Ranger) which encompasses these?

If the facelift due in 2014 ends up coming, it would want to have those features above, so it integrates better with other cars in the showroom, from a technical standpoint.
Another thought is, the Chinese market has a LWB version of the Mondeo. I think this could potentially form the basis of the next gen Taurus/ Falcon if thats the way they're going.

[tomygun_123]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

After seeing pics of the 2013 Taurus interior, I couldn't agree more . It also doesn't help that alot of taller drivers who wanted to upgrade from BA/BF, found a shorter range of adjustment for seat and steering wheel, so knees make contact with the wheel.
Would it be expensive to transfer voice control and SYNC etc from Focus et al when the development work is already done and alot of Fords share a common module (Fiesta, Focus, Ranger) which encompasses these?

If the facelift due in 2014 ends up coming, it would want to have those features above, so it integrates better with other cars in the showroom, from a technical standpoint.
Another thought is, the Chinese market has a LWB version of the Mondeo. I think this could potentially form the basis of the next gen Taurus/ Falcon if thats the way they're going.

This is the problem with Ford Australia at the moment.

It's like alphabet soup trying to pick out a car and there are so many different things.

That voice thing in the American Ford's is spectacular and as you said, that should just be utilized across the range in most of the middle to top range cars.

It also is unfortunate that we're not getting the 3.5 V6 Ecoboost here in Aus. An I-4 in a Falcon is kind of embarrassing if you ask me. I really hope that the Falcon is just topped up with all of the Taurus special goodies because I'd hate to see such a great car get replaced by a Taurus.. At least they're keeping the 4.0 I-6.

[mik]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Well not necessarily, just have a look at the last Focus RS, that thing will destroy any FPV in the twisty stuff and is not so much slower in a straight line ...

Yes for a FWD performance one can no longer concentrate on tons of silly KWs and burnouts ... it needs to be smart engineering focusing on achieving performance through much improved suspension, smart traction systems, braking, careful engine torque management, weight reduction and other such factors ... something that can be done, but then FPV would probably much rather just stick a large V8s instead ...

i know which one i`d rather have, and out of the tight twisty stuff it`s a different matter, whichever way you put it the GT is still a multi purpose grand tourer, no doubt the rs is fun in it`s element but i would`nt call it a grand tourer by any description, most people that buy GT`s are`nt going to be rally crossing it., they still want a good ride and a very fast comfy point to point vehicle over long distances or a car to just drive the family around in, or just give it a blat at the drags now and again, or tow the horse float or caravan, any of which it does perfectly.

[tomygun_123]

Originally Posted by mik

i know which one i`d rather have, and out of the tight twisty stuff it`s a different matter, whichever way you put it the GT is still a multi purpose grand tourer, no doubt the rs is fun in it`s element but i would`nt call it a grand tourer by any description, most people that buy GT`s are`nt going to be rally crossing it., they still want a good ride and a very fast comfy point to point vehicle over long distances or a car to just drive the family around in, or just give it a blat at the drags now and again, or tow the horse float or caravan, any of which it does perfectly.

When worked properly the Aus Ford sedans can do some great things around a track.

I would love however for FPV to maybe introduce a Coupe. Perhaps a new GTHO. Maybe also give us an XR Coupe.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by tomygun_123

It also is unfortunate that we're not getting the 3.5 V6 Ecoboost here in Aus. An I-4 in a Falcon is kind of embarrassing if you ask me. I really hope that the Falcon is just topped up with all of the Taurus special goodies because I'd hate to see such a great car get replaced by a Taurus.. At least they're keeping the 4.0 I-6.

V6 Ecoboost would only be doing the same job as I6t anyway

[mick457]

ive driven plenty of fwd cars in my time
frist car was a ae92 corolla great little car, but when it aquaplaned
its a wonder i didnt die, 2 i hate working on east west moters
the 1st time i drove a rear wheel drive car
was a supercharged vs statesmen v8
i tell you what didnt that get me hooked on rwd
drove the old boys ed one day to work when my car was getting a service
nilly killed myself in that to (in the wet)
went around a corner gave the ed a little bit of punch the same way i drove my rolla and spun out but this is all due to inexperince had my licence for 6 months
but at the end of the day id still prefer rwd
i couldnt imagine driving a falcon with fwd
its like wearing QLD jersey when your from nsw

[prydey]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

It also doesn't help that alot of taller drivers who wanted to upgrade from BA/BF, found a shorter range of adjustment for seat and steering wheel, so knees make contact with the wheel. .

i'm 6'2 and my knees don't hit the wheel in my fg and definitely doesn't have 'less' adjustment than my ba or bf2.

maybe if people set them up so that they were actually 'sitting up' how you are supposed to when driving, instead of lying down with fully sic straight arms, it wouldn't be such an issue.

Originally Posted by tomygun_123

An I-4 in a Falcon is kind of embarrassing if you ask me.

in which way? same power as BA and much more torque down low. initial reports even suggest it will give the current falcon a run for its money. its not until you get a lot higher in the rev range where its found lacking a bit and 98% of car buyers will never experience that.

its the 4cyl bit that people get hung up on. nothing to do with the actual car itself. same with the FWD argument. most people wouldn't know and wouldn't care which end was driving the car. most people that are against it compare it to their experience of 20 years ago. very short sighted. have a look at what cars people are buying. most of the top 15 is FWD.

[tomygun_123]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

V6 Ecoboost would only be doing the same job as I6t anyway

With much better fuel economy.

The I-6T is much more powerful though.

[jpd80]

A few points for discussion:

1) Falcon is the plan for Ford Australia until 2016, there is no contingency plan to cut and run at 2014, nothing is ready.

2) The current D3 Taurus will be gone by then, it's the FWD equivalent of Falcon built on Territory floor pan..too heavy.

3) The next big car will be a joint effort and costs shared throughout Ford, no more big overheads for FoA

4) The Americans aren't sure which way to go with next Taurus, FWD and RWD plans both have merit

5) Since large car sales are shrinking here and USA, the market is much less critical to Ford USA

6) and because of that, Ford NA will probably agree with any plan that economises Taurus and Mustang on one plan..

[buddy92]

Originally Posted by prydey

i'm 6'2 and my knees don't hit the wheel in my fg and definitely doesn't have 'less' adjustment than my ba or bf2.

maybe if people set them up so that they were actually 'sitting up' how you are supposed to when driving, instead of lying down with fully sic straight arms, it wouldn't be such an issue.



in which way? same power as BA and much more torque down low. initial reports even suggest it will give the current falcon a run for its money. its not until you get a lot higher in the rev range where its found lacking a bit and 98% of car buyers will never experience that.

its the 4cyl bit that people get hung up on. nothing to do with the actual car itself. same with the FWD argument. most people wouldn't know and wouldn't care which end was driving the car. most people that are against it compare it to their experience of 20 years ago. very short sighted. have a look at what cars people are buying. most of the top 15 is FWD.

I'm 6"4 and 130kg and my knees don't even touch the steering wheel...

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by jpd80

A few points for discussion:

1) Falcon is the plan for Ford Australia until 2016, there is no contingency plan to cut and run at 2014, nothing is ready.

2) The current D3 Taurus will be gone by then, it's the FWD equivalent of Falcon built on Territory floor pan..too heavy.

3) The next big car will be a joint effort and costs shared throughout Ford, no more big overheads for FoA

4) The Americans aren't sure which way to go with next Taurus, FWD and RWD plans both have merit

5) Since large car sales are shrinking here and USA, the market is much less critical to Ford USA

6) and because of that, Ford NA will probably agree with any plan that economises Taurus and Mustang on one plan..

I agree with 5 and 6...makes sense.

But I see no evidence of point 3..thats why IMO everyone is shaky and angry.

[max_torq]

6) no, that remains just your dream... there is no evidence at all that GRWD has any reality beyond the wishes of a few australians, and most of the veiled comments from Ford executives point towards trying to sell us the fusion/mondeo as a falcon replacement.

Ultimately, the driver will be fuel economy, and the weight and mechanical inefficiency overhead of RWD tells against it. For the Mustang this is not a consideration but then there are the problems of reconciling a performance oriented coupe chassis with the markets requirement for space in a 4 door saloon.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by max_torq

6) no, that remains just your dream... there is no evidence at all that GRWD has any reality beyond the wishes of a few australians, and most of the veiled comments from Ford executives point towards trying to sell us the fusion/mondeo as a falcon replacement.

Ultimately, the driver will be fuel economy, and the weight and mechanical inefficiency overhead of RWD tells against it. For the Mustang this is not a consideration but then there are the problems of reconciling a performance oriented coupe chassis with the markets requirement for space in a 4 door saloon.

And Ford is demonstrating that a 2.0 Ecoboost Falcon is just as economical as the global 2.0 Ecoboost Mondeo.

I have a hunch that Ford head office is bending over backwards to make local production work,
if indeed Ford wanted to introduce global platforms then there would have been no
announcement of a 2014 Falcon upgrade... you can take that to the bank..

[eb2fairmont]

Simply because ford without falcon = sfa sales. So local manufacturing even if small in the global context is important. Ford don't want to walk away from oz, if they can falcon they kill the heritage and meaning that ford has with Australia.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

A few points for discussion:

1) Falcon is the plan for Ford Australia until 2016, there is no contingency plan to cut and run at 2014, nothing is ready.

2) The current D3 Taurus will be gone by then, it's the FWD equivalent of Falcon built on Territory floor pan..too heavy.

3) The next big car will be a joint effort and costs shared throughout Ford, no more big overheads for FoA

4) The Americans aren't sure which way to go with next Taurus, FWD and RWD plans both have merit

5) Since large car sales are shrinking here and USA, the market is much less critical to Ford USA

6) and because of that, Ford NA will probably agree with any plan that economises Taurus and Mustang on one plan..

Ford says they intend to compete in the E segment in Australia. So that must mean USA as well. So may as well go sporty with it. I'd still be betting that the niche segment may share with Mustang/Falcon. Falcon looks so attractive with it's three engine types.

[music189]

Originally Posted by jpd80

A few points for discussion:

1) Falcon is the plan for Ford Australia until 2016, there is no contingency plan to cut and run at 2014, nothing is ready.

2) The current D3 Taurus will be gone by then, it's the FWD equivalent of Falcon built on Territory floor pan..too heavy.

3) The next big car will be a joint effort and costs shared throughout Ford, no more big overheads for FoA

4) The Americans aren't sure which way to go with next Taurus, FWD and RWD plans both have merit

5) Since large car sales are shrinking here and USA, the market is much less critical to Ford USA

6) and because of that, Ford NA will probably agree with any plan that economises Taurus and Mustang on one plan..

I think point 3 nails it.
VW does the same thing, all its diferent makes VW, Audi,Skoda,Seat, Bentley,Lamborgini, Bugatti all share certain bits and pieces from drivetrain to basic chassis,floorplan/tub and are tweaked to suit indivdual brands
And with the top class engineering from Ford Australia, whatever comes out as Ford Australia's version will be the worlds best Ford and hopefully made here as well