Are Australian Fords REALLY so bad? - Page 4

superfly · 07-05-2013, 09:00 PM

I owned three Hyundai's (all bought new) in the 80's & 90's. Then I moved onto Subaru's including Liberty RS, WRX & Forester XT and every single one of my cars had a few issues but all (bar Liberty RS) were sorted out no fuss with the dealer.

Now I've bought my first Ford as I think the FG is a great looking car and excellent value for money. And sure it's had a couple of issues (all fixed no fuss) and I think it's a fantastic car.

People buy what suits their needs best. And for me, the FG was a perfect upgrade from my WRX.

And as for issues with cars, I've been on Subaru's forums for years and there's plenty of problems reported over there as well. Some can handle it, other just want to leave the brand. Happens with any brand unfortunately and it's more noticeable these days due to the internet sharing.

Thunder · 07-05-2013, 10:17 PM

Here is an interesting one for you:

Went to the local dealer today to check out the new Kuga. Hmmmmm.

I gashed my hand badly on the B pillar side plastic door trim, edges rough as gravel. Looked all around the door rubbers, seals, trims snd general fit and alignment and compared it to the Territory. Then compared the dashboard, fit and finish, style, functionality and space.

Sorry, but the Australian Made Territory (and Falcon) sheet-on the overseas Kuga.

My 2 cents.

JG34JA · 07-05-2013, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davistev

Interesting thread. Whenever I take the family for a long country drive we always take our comfortable EA Fairmont. It just feels like a cruise on our lounge suite. A beautiful luxurious drive that averages 10.4 L/100km. For a 23 year old car, it is our favourite ride. The secret is to keep changing the fluids and filters.

I would love to see a basic simple Falcon for $29,999. Just give a simple car with airbags and AC .

Yeah, far from being so bad, the highway cruise is where our Aussie Fords have shone the brightest. We've had an ED and an SY and they've both been brilliant, with very robust drivetrains over 250,000km or so combined. Did have a radiator hose split on the ED which for a second I thought was the dreaded head gasket, but no. Fantastic highway car, the best decelerating 3rd gear (auto) in any car I've owned.

ryeman · 08-05-2013, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG34JA

Yeah, ......the best decelerating 3rd gear (auto) in any car I've owned.

Now there's a niche for Ford to advertise its superiority .....D

TRAU BLAU · 08-05-2013, 01:22 PM

What I like most about Fords is that they are reliable,cheap to fix,rugged enough,safe and fun to drive.Holdens seem to be prone to serious problems and wear out quicker than Fords.As for Jap cars they seem to need servicing more often or they're up for costly repairs.

TheSneakiness · 08-05-2013, 01:53 PM

I've had three Falcons (EA, AUII and BAII)

AU was the best car out of the lot. Granted it spent heaps of in shops (due to my modding bug) but it never, ever broke down on me.

Currently have in my sig. Don't like it.

Rob 351 · 08-05-2013, 09:29 PM

I,ve had Falcons for years now & still have 3 in our stable including a FG GTP, an XD & a XE. With the kids growing up now we downscaled to a Focus Sport for our main run around car after years of Falcons including a BA, BF & a G6e turbo as our main car. To say we don't like the Focus is an understatement! We both, myself & my lovely wife are so disappointed with it after so many years of Aussie built Fords. The auto gearbox is terrible, it's gutless, & basically just a disappointing car. Only Ford I have ever owned that has had to go back to Ford dealer to rectify problems.
We will put up with it for a while longer but in the not to distant future it will be replaced by a car of my wifes choice which will either be a Territory or another G6e turbo.
We can't wait to get back into another Aussie built Ford!

DTFRMONT · 08-05-2013, 10:20 PM

You also need to look at the big changes in society since 2000 or so. A lot more CBD & inner suburban apartment living (in Melbourne & Sydney at least), with reduced parking usually for 1 car only, or no parking at all. Most folk would consider a Falcon or Commodore too big in this situation, hence more sales for stuff like Mazda 3, Golf, Focus, etc.

You also have a lot more inner city people choosing not to have a car as they feel that they don't need one with the available PT & having everything close by. And they can use car sharing if they do need a car. I know at least 2 people in my office in this situation.

I know myself since working in the City again, that I now drive mostly on the weekends, I haven't driven to work this year yet. Too much of a pain driving through the city to get to Docklands & the parking is far from cheap. Much easier to get the train in....

FgNewbie · 08-05-2013, 10:24 PM

I haven't read every post.

Quote:

Are Australian Fords REALLY so bad?

Relative to rust, I'll say YES.

Every Falcon/Fairmont I've owned over the last 30 something years has suffered excessive rust. (The few non-Ford I've owned haven't rusted).

The rust in my FG was noticed 3 weeks after delivery.
3 years later I'm told it needs a new bonnet as well as engine bay repairs again.

Ford rejected a recent claim because a repair had been done before.
Another claim is in process now.

If Ford can't make it properly and then can't fix it properly, they shouldn't make it my problem. I'm only the sucker that owns it.

Madaya · 08-05-2013, 10:36 PM

Maybe Ford should look at building a mini SUV type vehicle, seeing as people seem to be attracted to these type of boxes like a moth to the flame.
I don't know much about the SUV end of town, other than a couple are okay, but most are crap.
Don't need 4wd.
Chuck in a Turbo diesel.
A solid 4 petrol.
A 'sports' turbo petrol.
Maybe a hybrid option

Plenty of (intelligent) joy in the cabin, nice trim and colours.
From a business perspective, maybe the Falcon will have to be dropped. But with the right engineering and QC, we can sell these anywhere.
Never driven a Territory, but agree that it is a fine car.

csv8 · 08-05-2013, 10:43 PM

They do..the Ecosport a Fiesta sized Kuga...coming later this year

BENT_8 · 08-05-2013, 11:28 PM

There's nothing wrong with local built Fords, they are bloody great vehicles and have been for decades when compared to the opposition.

Infact, apart from the Nissan powered VL I cant think of any Holden in the last 50yrs which has as proven strength and reliability as the Falcon i6.

The problem is, no one wants a boring Falcon anymore.
I remember 30 years ago almost every driveway in the street had a variant of one of the local big offerings and your status relied on how tough or immaculate yours was.
The day of being 1 up on the joneses are gone, my neighbour doesn't want a shinier falcondore than me, they want something polarising for the 'look at me' factor, so they buy a SUV with all the bells and throw on a set of 20" bling.
This country has lost its motoring identity, and the good old Aussie patriotism of being red or blue are distant memories like GTHO's and A9X Torana's.

Its not trendy to be seen in a Falcon unfortunately, and that is the end product of fashion over functionality.

Now im not saying that Falcon hasn't had its moments, and anyone who has ever owned an XE with its dodgy door handles, an EB with cooked head or BA with milk where the trans fluid used to be will attest that they all have their traits, but you go into it with eyes wide open.

The Falcon is a world class offering, unfortunately very few realise it.

302 XC · 09-05-2013, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

There's nothing wrong with local built Fords, they are bloody great vehicles and have been for decades when compared to the opposition.

Infact, apart from the Nissan powered VL I cant think of any Holden in the last 50yrs which has as proven strength and reliability as the Falcon i6.

I6 great motor, hemi 6 great motor,holden red great motor
The holden red and the hemi 6 have race gred, been marketed for decades,id say they both would be high on the reliability ,strength stakes as much as the I6 ,probably morso than the RB30,which was in one model holden
I love Nissan 6s,and id say an old 2.8 (L28) is just as robust and reliable as the RB30
A 202 GTR XU1 wouldn't be to shabby against a VL turbo
The E49 6 pot charger was the fastest, tuffest factory six till the I6 turbo hit the market
A E49 would eat a VL turbo,1/4 mile,and they didn't even have a turbo
The holden red motor would have to be the most worked.modded aussie six ever

BENT_8 · 09-05-2013, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 302 XC

I6 great motor, hemi 6 great motor,holden red great motor
The holden red and the hemi 6 have race gred, been marketed for decades,id say they both would be high on the reliability ,strength stakes as much as the I6 ,probably morso than the RB30,which was in one model holden
I love Nissan 6s,and id say an old 2.8 (L28) is just as robust and reliable as the RB30
A 202 GTR XU1 wouldn't be to shabby against a VL turbo
The E49 6 pot charger was the fastest, tuffest factory six till the I6 turbo hit the market
A E49 would eat a VL turbo,1/4 mile,and they didn't even have a turbo
The holden red motor would have to be the most worked.modded aussie six ever

Having owned and repaired many red, blue and black GM i6's I wouldn't even mention them in the same breath as a falcon i6.
I'm not denying XU1 performance, but in standard trim the GM i6's are anything but inspiring.
The only version of it worthy of a mention would be the injected red motor from the VK series.

Furthermore, I wouldn't give you tuppence for any of their V6's from VN on either.

flooded one · 09-05-2013, 08:26 PM

I wouldn't even bother moding a holden straight 6 nowdays. I'd opt an RB30 or a V8 conversion. I would however have a holden straight six if I wanted too leave an old holden original. been there done that

Road_Warrior · 09-05-2013, 09:15 PM

The ye olde worlde Holden 6's and the E49 didnt have to comply with Euro IV and get 9.9L/100klm in a 1700kg car either.

RSgerry · 09-05-2013, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob 18

I,ve had Falcons for years now & still have 3 in our stable including a FG GTP, an XD & a XE. With the kids growing up now we downscaled to a Focus Sport for our main run around car after years of Falcons including a BA, BF & a G6e turbo as our main car. To say we don't like the Focus is an understatement! We both, myself & my lovely wife are so disappointed with it after so many years of Aussie built Fords. The auto gearbox is terrible, it's gutless, & basically just a disappointing car. Only Ford I have ever owned that has had to go back to Ford dealer to rectify problems.
We will put up with it for a while longer but in the not to distant future it will be replaced by a car of my wifes choice which will either be a Territory or another G6e turbo.
We can't wait to get back into another Aussie built Ford!

I have currently got an auto focus sport and agree...horrible. the gearbox has no idea what to do. give it a little bit of throttle and nothing happens. put your foot down and it think s for ages before doing anything. however, when it is going, it isn't too bad. the manual was much better. the ST is a completely different car. I have had Falcons and they are sensational on the open road, but I have found the build quality to be poor.

Franco Cozzo · 09-05-2013, 09:48 PM

Pretty much every auto gearbox is terrible, regardless if its DSG, traditional slush box or CVT.

You'll be going up a steep hill and it would be shifting up/down/up/down/up/down/up/down/up/down or be at the wrong gear at the bottom, or like in my EL, you'll be braking and it will sit in 4th gear at like 1000 RPM rather than gear down as you are slowing.

I've driven VW's DSG, Honda/Ford slushboxes, Mercedes CVT in their new cars and I've come to the conclusion they're all horrible.

VW DSG has a massive delay on selecting reverse, and its jerky at low speeds.

duaned · 09-05-2013, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Pretty much every auto gearbox is terrible, regardless if its DSG, traditional slush box or CVT.

Maybe you need to spend some time with the ZF 6 speed auto. It shouldn't take you to long to re-write the nonsense up above in the quote.

Road_Warrior · 09-05-2013, 10:49 PM

The Ford 6R80 matched to the 2.7 diesel in the Territory does a pretty damn fine job...little to no hunting on hills and almost impossible to spot the gear changes as they occur.

Franco Cozzo · 09-05-2013, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duaned

Maybe you need to spend some time with the ZF 6 speed auto. It shouldn't take you to long to re-write the nonsense up above in the quote.

Does it really save the whales like the people wearing the blue tinted glasses claim it does?

jpd80 · 10-05-2013, 09:43 AM

Just spoke to a senior manager at work, has always been staunch Ford supporter,
his father was a Dealer principle for many years, recently divesting an interest in a Ford dealership.
The interesting things out of the conversation were:
- last month that dealership sold no Falcons what so ever..
- Senior Ford dealer principles now consider Falcon a dead brand to most buyers who want other products.
- when the lease is up on his GT he won't be buying Ford, looking at C Class Merc, BMW ect...
- Falcons, especially GTs are way behind appointments expected in an $80K car (manual ratchet seat FFS..)
- While his previous GTs were nice cars, he now actually considers the engine to be too good for the car...

Sorry to sound depressing but these are the vibes coming through for Ford supporters and dealers..

ryeman · 10-05-2013, 10:16 AM

The decline of dealerships is 'the tea leaves'

123Cat · 11-05-2013, 08:50 AM

All that it is to me , is that its an Aussie Ford with Aussie oil and parts and worked on by young Australians

Australian lads gave up their lives to make us free ,

**DJM83** · 11-05-2013, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duaned

Maybe you need to spend some time with the ZF 6 speed auto. It shouldn't take you to long to re-write the nonsense up above in the quote.

Couldnt care how good any auto is, ZF inc. As long as i can change my own gears i wont own one.

FNQracing · 11-05-2013, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Infact, apart from the Nissan powered VL I cant think of any Holden in the last 50yrs which has as proven strength and reliability as the Falcon i6.

The only Ford I6 that will be remembered in years to come will be the Barra, both NA and Turbo. Up until then, Ford I6's were noisy, harsh and inefficient. Hardly the factors that make for a great engine. They were tough, I'll give you that, but only if you ignore the constant troubles with head gaskets and standard issue oil leaks.

Ford never made a sweet inline 6 until 2002. Sorry, the others were pigs, but they got the job done.

Maka · 11-05-2013, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FNQracing

The only Ford I6 that will be remembered in years to come will be the Barra, both NA and Turbo. Up until then, Ford I6's were noisy, harsh and inefficient. Hardly the factors that make for a great engine. They were tough, I'll give you that, but only if you ignore the constant troubles with head gaskets and standard issue oil leaks.

Ford never made a sweet inline 6 until 2002. Sorry, the others were pigs, but they got the job done.

I digress, imo the reason i6t is the motor it is today is because of the all the experience (r&d) Ford gained building previous i6 engines, they were always strong, lusty & frugal. Engines will suffer from bung headgaskets & oil leaks etc when theyre neglected, not serviced on time or flogged like no tomorrow. The Hemi & Holden 6's of the day were good too if they were serviced on time & driven as intended (i know from experience lol!)

cheers, Maka

Nic85 · 11-05-2013, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Pretty much every auto gearbox is terrible, regardless if its DSG, traditional slush box or CVT.

You'll be going up a steep hill and it would be shifting up/down/up/down/up/down/up/down/up/down or be at the wrong gear at the bottom, or like in my EL, you'll be braking and it will sit in 4th gear at like 1000 RPM rather than gear down as you are slowing.

I've driven VW's DSG, Honda/Ford slushboxes, Mercedes CVT in their new cars and I've come to the conclusion they're all horrible.

VW DSG has a massive delay on selecting reverse, and its jerky at low speeds.

The delay into reverse in the DSG is from the brake pedal. Put your foot on the brake while you're in reverse and you have to wait 1 second for the clutch to engage reverse. It's just an inherent thing in the gearbox because of the way the input shafts work in conjunction with the clutches. We have the newest DSG software in our Polo GTi, and the low speed jerkiness is far, far less than it used to be. I drive it in traffic daily, and in stop/start stuff it's not too bad.

Franco Cozzo · 11-05-2013, 03:21 PM

The I6 in my EL Falcon has always ran pretty rough, even before the cam and tune, it vibrates and missfires at idle, even though it has new plugs, leads, dizzy cap, rotor button and coil.

I think its just a problem with my particular car as my mates Nissan Patrol with the 4.2L I6 idles very smoothly, you could put a 5c coin on top of the engine and it would stay there.

302 XC · 11-05-2013, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

Couldnt care how good any auto is, ZF inc. As long as i can change my own gears i wont own one.

Im the opposite
The days of swapping cogs all day is for boy racers
Autos have come a huge distance in advancement compared to the good ole 2 speed powerglides ....
Auto is a stipulation in every car we buy