Holden on the verge of closing Australian plants

[BroadyFord]

Whatever happens, whether they stay or go, it's clear that the V6 engine plant will close at the end of VF. Seems like a foolish decision given the $400 million was only opened in 2004.

[stazza]

We all know it's inevitable in the very near future that Holden will be closing it's doors. They're too arrogant to admit it and "let ford win". Their buyers have the same mentality, I work with loads of them and they have this exact same attitude. They are sore losers.

I hope they don't get any more funding. They will close so why prolong it? If they close now maybe the employees have a chance in getting work in the current industries we still have left. The longer they prolong it, the less chance they have of their employees finding jobs, because as any working class man knows, australian industry manufacture and mining jobs days are numbered.

I dont get why everyone has their panties in a know over my comments, yet they then post up saying they know holden is dead. I'm just not afraid to say that I think they should pull their heads outta their asses and kick the bucket already and save us these pointless discussions.

and as stated in another thread, they money they are asking for can be better spent elsewhere such as hospitals and schools etc... thus creating more jobs.

[pottery beige]

It's very real.. jump on Adelaide now sight.. can't post linky..

[WAR40T]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1226677369721

[BroadyFord]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the unions will be the death of Australian car manufacturing.

They'd rather lose their jobs than take a temporary pay cut. How sad...

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the unions will be the death of Australian car manufacturing.

They'd rather lose their jobs than take a temporary pay cut. How sad...

Aah, but the Union stood shoulder to shoulder with the workers and made sure that the workers did not loose 1 cent of their hard fought entitlements. (Then jumped in the car and headed back to Union HQ to work on pre-selection for Parliament.)

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the unions will be the death of Australian car manufacturing.

They'd rather lose their jobs than take a temporary pay cut. How sad...

So Holden want the workers to take a pay cut but they want $265mill from the government. The wages are only a small problem with whats happening over there.

[EVLKNEVL]

Originally Posted by stazza

I hope they don't get any more funding. They will close so why prolong it? If they close now maybe the employees have a chance in getting work in the current industries we still have left. The longer they prolong it, the less chance they have of their employees finding jobs, because as any working class man knows, australian industry manufacture and mining jobs days are numbered.

So right now these workers have jobs.. These jobs have a shaky future, so you think it's best they upheave now and move on to other jobs which have shaky futures?

Just how out of touch are you?

Originally Posted by stazza

I'm just not afraid to say...

Yeah it's easy for you to say things when it's not you and yours, isn't it.

[stazza]

Mining and construction will be around a lot longer than holden will be. Yes the days are numbered for the mining boom but it's certainly more stable than holden is.

You know exactly what I was trying to say.

I've been in uncertain working situations several times and the best thing I did was cut my losses and take a better job while I could.

[WAR40T]

Originally Posted by stazza

Mining and construction will be around a lot longer than holden will be. Yes the days are numbered for the mining boom but it's certainly more stable than holden is.

You know exactly what I was trying to say.

I've been in uncertain working situations several times and the best thing I did was cut my losses and take a better job while I could.

Totally Agree Stazza, How long do you flog a horse that doesn't perform till you finally shoot it? How much more money do you keep tipping into a business/Company that keeps coming back in the red ever EOFY? Regardless of who it is, it just isn't Viable. Like a lot have said, the money could be better spent else where. Ford realised this and made the call Yes people will lose there jobs, but you grab yourself and move on. There is always another opportunity else where.
And before anyone chimes in with a "have you lost your job" remark, Yeah I have, 3 times in fact over 8 years with the closure of business's, It isn't fun, but you get out there and look and survive.

My 2 cents....

[jpd80]

So much for Holden's ten year plan....

Surely, they must have known all this was coming.

Not sure about the rest of you but even if the government gave Holden another $265 million
and the union and workers both agreed to a $200/week pay cut, Holden could still cut and run
and as we've seen previously, funding doesn't really guarantee anything at all, especially worker's jobs.....

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

How does this pan out for Toyota then? Toyota builds Camrys in Thailand, Malaysia and the Philippines and yet Australia is the base from which vehicles are exported to the Middle East.

I don't have the answer, although someone I know who has dealings with Toyota once told me that Toyota Japan regard Toyota Oz as one of the most reliable facilities when it comes to build-quality and workmanship (notwithstanding the pig-headed unions in charge of the joint), and hence award them with the export contract. How accurate this is I do not know.

toyota are not ford or gm
maybe being based in japan, it is easier to keep an eye on what australia is doing - time zones and distance is less of a problem than north america

either way, it seems to me that both ford and gm, for whatever reason are only allowing their australian subsidiaries to produce cars that are exclusive to australia and therefore will not be costing more to build than in asia and nor will they take sales of north america
it seems to me that while the falcon and commode dore were making money, both ford and gm would allow cars to be made here, but as soon as they were no longer capable of making money, they were/will be canned
it seems they were happy for australia to make them money, but they did not want australia to be in competition with any of their other factories

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Territory sales fall through the floor? You do know they have a Diesel don't you?? Falcon Ecoboost has never been pushed or marketed like Camry Hybrid... Those things are a false ecomony if you look at the environmental impacts they have. They still use fuel, and when it comes time to recycle them they leave a huge footprint!@

Toyota is no comparison to Ford or Holden because they don't design or engineer their own cars in Australia... They used left overs off older models and party trick them up. Further to that the offer a very limited narrow range. Their costs are nothing compared to Ford and Holden's who have both built cars from the ground up for many years.

You can look at this from another angle. Toyota is one step ahead with "one Toyota" models for the world market. Ford is moving to one Ford and GM is doing the same. Victims are unique locally produced Falcon/Territory and Commodore models which are not global models.
Ford have decided not to produce any of the global models here in Australia and close local manufacturing .Holden is trying to produce Cruze which is a global model but GM is looking to go Ford way and produce in cheaper countries.
On the other hand Toyota is producing their global models here (even 4cyl engines) and covering Australian market as well as part of the global markets.
Toyota could easily produce those elswhere ,like in Thailand for example.
So it looks like Toyota deserves some credit here ....

[jpd80]

Unfortunately, in the eyes of Ford and GM, Australia is becoming a distant and increasingly
small market that is unable to support local manufacturing, it's just easier for them to
import products here than be bothered setting up manufacturing...

The Japanese think differently to US and European car makers, while Toyota could easily import
all products into Australia, they chose to build Camry here and Export the Middle East. Further to that,
Toyota is looking to add RAV4 production to Australia if possible.


This may sound stupid and left field but maybe Australia being right hand drive like Japan gives us a unique product alignment
opportunity, a bit like Canada is to the USA where there's not much difference in specs between the two markets.
Toyota outsells Holden and Ford combined in this country, maybe that is reason enough to have a manufacturing footprint.

[SumoDog68]

Middle East countries are LHD so Toyota manufactures both LHD and RHD drive in Australia. Japan is RHD so some common ground is probably a factor.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Toyota outsells Holden and Ford combined in this country, maybe that is reason enough to have a manufacturing footprint.

...and Toyota's local manufacturing may increase to 1980s Ford/Holden levels.

[stazza]

Originally Posted by jpd80

So much for Holden's ten year plan....

Surely, they must have known all this was coming.

Not sure about the rest of you but even if the government gave Holden another $265 million
and the union and workers both agreed to a $200/week pay cut, Holden could still cut and run
and as we've seen previously, funding doesn't really guarantee anything at all, especially worker's jobs.....

Tbh I think they knew it was coming, they just wanted to fool everyone into thinking they were doing fine so the commodore would sell and make as much cash as they could before they finally announce it.

I'd laugh so hard if Holden throw the towel in before Ford and Ford still releases the 2014 Falcon. Throw their arrogance back in their faces.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

I'm sorry to say but in some ways I'm with this bloke....Holden has been making their bed for years now.....spending up big...talking big and global. Spending amazing amounts of money buying v8 super car champions and so on.
Although I feel so sorry for aus and its employees.......Holden itself has nothing but itself to blame....carrying on spending up massive in such scary times.
No doubt a company policy borrowed from the USA.

Excellent point. They have pumped tens of millions into very expensive sponsorship deals with Collingwood and NRL, pump millions into motorsport etc, then expect employees to take pay cuts.

They are as morally bankrupt as their GM masters, spending up all the way to bankruptcy and then expecting the government to bail them out. To bad it's the workers who lose in the end.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Excellent point. They have pumped tens of millions into very expensive sponsorship deals with Collingwood and NRL, pump millions into motorsport etc, then expect employees to take pay cuts.

It's called marketing...

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They are as morally bankrupt as their GM masters, spending up all the way to bankruptcy and then expecting the government to bail them out. To bad it's the workers who lose in the end.

+1

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

It's called marketing...

Surely there is a point where you pull back on this when you can't afford it? Holden do not ever seem to slow spending, they just keep spending and spending and then cry poor when it all goes pear shaped.

As much as we all hated it at the time Ford pulled back on all the luxuries ie motorsport, sponsorships of the Swans, Golf?, Rugby teams etc because they could no longer afford to pump vast sums of money into it. They just kept their expenditure to a minimum.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the unions will be the death of Australian car manufacturing.

Not really, unions together with the AIG are now looking at implementing 3rd world standards & conditions in the workplace to remain viable & competitive... starting with you at your workplace.

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

They'd rather lose their jobs than take a temporary pay cut. How sad...

Do you know for sure its temporary ??

[bigwil]

So holden wants its employees to take a big pay cut, most likely close down in the not to distant future and pay everyone out at a much lower rate. Not good.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Excellent point. They have pumped tens of millions into very expensive sponsorship deals with Collingwood and NRL, pump millions into motorsport etc, then expect employees to take pay cuts.

They are as morally bankrupt as their GM masters, spending up all the way to bankruptcy and then expecting the government to bail them out. To bad it's the workers who lose in the end.

READ these again.....there is a limit to responsible sponsorship......buying the best of the best every year....and as they said spending more own advertising then any model before it......please.......anyone is an idiot if you think Holden employees here in aus haven't had a straight amercian brain transplant, the way they run the business here. It's been a joke for years.
Ford has for Many years now been taking as much advantage of alternative media options as they could....to save money.(despite many flaming them for it. At least ford goes out head held high.....while Holden is STziLL asking for bailouts) Holden deserve nothing......if anything our government should be fully funding falcon n territory as they are the only world class cars to come out of aus in the last ten years. End of rant....I'm off to punch a donkey.....

[thejet]

Good point take the pay cut then save thousands on redundancies further down the line....

Some have suggested that GM take most of the australian goverment dollars out of the country to the USA..

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by bigwil

So holden wants its employees to take a big pay cut, most likely close down in the not to distant future and pay everyone out at a much lower rate. Not good.

holden wouldn't do that would they
surely they are the responsible manufacturer - unlike ford who only gave their workers 3 and a half years notice

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

READ these again.....there is a limit to responsible sponsorship......buying the best of the best every year....and as they said spending more own advertising then any model before it......please.......anyone is an idiot if you think Holden employees here in aus haven't had a straight amercian brain transplant, the way they run the business here. It's been a joke for years.
Ford has for Many years now been taking as much advantage of alternative media options as they could....to save money.(despite many flaming them for it. At least ford goes out head held high.....while Holden is STziLL asking for bailouts) Holden deserve nothing......if anything our government should be fully funding falcon n territory as they are the only world class cars to come out of aus in the last ten years. End of rant....I'm off to punch a donkey.....

Hands off the donkey Pal... He did nothing to you.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by bigwil

So holden wants its employees to take a big pay cut, most likely close down in the not to distant future and pay everyone out at a much lower rate. Not good.

^^^ this.. workers have told them to get stuffed for that exact reason..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by stazza

Tbh I think they knew it was coming, they just wanted to fool everyone into thinking they were doing fine so the commodore would sell and make as much cash as they could before they finally announce it.

I'd laugh so hard if Holden throw the towel in before Ford and Ford still releases the 2014 Falcon. Throw their arrogance back in their faces.

To be honest, this was the real concern I had just before VF was released, I was wondering whether
Holden had gone a bridge too far with money outlaid on Commodore plus those generous $5,000 cuts in RRP.


Now, if the new VF does not lift Holden sales significantly, the whole plan begins to unzip at an alarming pace,
revisions on expected revenue, projections on future sales potential of replacement vehicles, production levels
are all thrown out the window as the whole lot becomes one huge money pit - and that my friends is what Holden is looking at.

And you can quote me on this,
IMO, Holden cannot and will not sustain production at Ford's current level and another cut
in production beyond the one still being implemented could mean curtains for them in Australia.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by bigwil

So holden wants its employees to take a big pay cut, most likely close down in the not to distant future and pay everyone out at a much lower rate. Not good.

That can very easily be fixed if the Union's used half a brain!! Agree to the pay cuts, with one clause, "If you close the plant with in (say) 5 years, pay outs are done at the old rate!!

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

^^^ this.. workers have told them to get stuffed for that exact reason..

And those workers are playing a very dangerous game, one of which they will not win!