Holden want extra 265mil to stay

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by trublu

Can never understand why our Federal, State & Local governments do not support our industry, talk is cheap on their part.

WHY ???
Probably the same reason everyone else buys imports
They are cheaper ......

Ill have to agree with the few good posts recently
Don't handout cash, which will either go to share holders ,or fat cat CEOs pockets
Pay the money,get a good deal on a bulk purchase order, then every coupla years do it again,as mentioned just keeps the wheels turning
That has to be better than a cash injection on a sinking ship .....

At days end ,its the $$$, always has been, always will be ,morso now than ever
The country as a whole is sliding into a pile of nothing,itll take more than cash to prop it up,itll take someone with more than half a brain

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by trublu

Quite agree^^^^
Can never understand why our Federal, State & Local governments do not support our industry, talk is cheap on their part.

In the grand scheme of things, Governments buying more locally made cars is not going to have a great effect. The car manufacturers were bleeding money and crying poor when they were making a combined 350,000 cars a year, and they are doing exactly the same now, that they are making 190,000 cars a year. Even if the governments combined were to buy another 50,000 cars a year (and its not likely since they are reducing public service headcounts), its just going to make the car manufacturers scream a wee bit tiny less. If you are losing money on selling locally made cars with higher priced public sales and lower priced fleet sales, then its not likely to improve the economics if you increase the percentage of lower priced fleet sales (and economies of scales dont mean anything on 190,000 or 250,000 cars (in 2 or 3 plants) a year, if your competitiors are making 400 -600,000 cars a year in one plant.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

In the grand scheme of things, Governments buying more locally made cars is not going to have a great effect. The car manufacturers were bleeding money and crying poor when they were making a combined 350,000 cars a year, and they are doing exactly the same now, that they are making 190,000 cars a year. Even if the governments combined were to buy another 50,000 cars a year (and its not likely since they are reducing public service headcounts), its just going to make the car manufacturers scream a wee bit tiny less. If you are losing money on selling locally made cars with higher priced public sales and lower priced fleet sales, then its not likely to improve the economics if you increase the percentage of lower priced fleet sales (and economies of scales dont mean anything on 190,000 or 250,000 cars (in 2 or 3 plants) a year, if your competitiors are making 400 -600,000 cars a year in one plant.

There was a bill going around to make governments buy Aussie made only. It was meant to add 200,000 sales for the locals.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

If we put that figure on the table what else can we build for that money?
A regional hospital or 3, improved transport where its needed, low cost housing to help with the population growth?

How about a huge building project to invest in the future? As much as I don't want to see Holden workers out of a job I believe it will just prolong the inevitable.

A new Children's hospital in Perth is costing one and a half billion dollars. Medical care isn't cheap. Regional hospitals are about twice or more than what Holden is asking for, and what they are asking is chicken feed.

Holden are committed to staying as long as they can remain viable and are given the assistance they need. That is far better than the position taken by Ford to just pull out no matter what offers were given.

If GM will continue to take support and continue jobs here, and their business that gives more back to the nation then what we give them, then I say we all get behind the decision to back Holden. Onya Holden.

[dannyxm]

very expensive buying all those deck chairs on the Titanic............

[stazza]

I'm sorry but what more could they possibly give back to the nation than what the nation has given them? Build more cars?

I think the money could be spent far better on roads, infrastructure or transport, let alone 265million other better reasons than to keep a company afloat that WILL close it's doors in the near future. Why prolong it for months or a year if we know what the end result will be?

Even if Ford were in this situation I'd say the same thing. Regardless of our passion for cars, the money could be better spent elsewhere. If they could keep afloat themselves, different story.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by vztrt

There was a bill going around to make governments buy Aussie made only. It was meant to add 200,000 sales for the locals.

The most Governments purchases have come to in the last 8 years was 87,000 cars purchased in 2005. Take into account alot of "specific requirements" when purchasing government vehicles (thus limiting all the locally made stuff), then theirs Buckleys chance that an extra 200,000 cars will be purchased by the government. And I can just imagine what it would do to reale values and private buyer desires if governments are buying 250,000 cars from a production run of 400,000 cars.

[CyberWasp]

Why not have a government rebate scheme for private customer sales of Australian made cars?
This money then only goes to the manufacturer who makes the cars that people want through increased sales.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by stazza

I'm sorry but what more could they possibly give back to the nation than what the nation has given them? Build more cars?

I think the money could be spent far better on roads, infrastructure or transport, let alone 265million other better reasons than to keep a company afloat that WILL close it's doors in the near future. Why prolong it for months or a year if we know what the end result will be?

Even if Ford were in this situation I'd say the same thing. Regardless of our passion for cars, the money could be better spent elsewhere. If they could keep afloat themselves, different story.

The Automotive industry has put $50 billion dollars back into the wealth of the nation over the last decade. Our governments have invested less than a tenth of that over that time.

So no... the money couldn't be spent any better than putting it into Automotive manufacturing.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Actually, one of the more productive ways governments used to assist Holden and Ford was to buy up considerable fleets as very low prices, run them for two years and then sell them off
for around the price they were purchased at, giving the public, taxis and rental companies access to
affordable low klm vehicles.

That stopped when Local Government started buying AU Falcons, putting them on the transporter, dropping them at the auction, and pocketing the profit to balance the books. Ford revised Government pricing when the BA was released.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Buntz

A new Children's hospital in Perth is costing one and a half billion dollars. Medical care isn't cheap. Regional hospitals are about twice or more than what Holden is asking for, and what they are asking is chicken feed.

Holden are committed to staying as long as they can remain viable and are given the assistance they need. That is far better than the position taken by Ford to just pull out no matter what offers were given.

If GM will continue to take support and continue jobs here, and their business that gives more back to the nation then what we give them, then I say we all get behind the decision to back Holden. Onya Holden.

Perhaps post some pictures of the Perth Hospital... it's the size of a bloody whole suburb.

How this building has anything to do, comparison wise with health services in regional towns with tiny populations is beyond me.

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/bu...2-hmedia03.htm

How much of that list could be ticked off with $265m of 'chicken feed'??

I really hope that Holden are here for the long haul, I don't want to see anyone out of job.

[ute83]

In 20 years time I can see us as a country saying I wish we were still making stuff in this country.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Also the larger companies and rentals bought regular amounts. Hertz, Euro etc are overloaded with Hyundai and Nissan

Yes, but there was a reason. The following is from Bob Ansett's speakers biography.
"At one stage his company faced financial difficulties due to the devastating airline strike and was ultimately acquired by Budget America in a joint venture with Ford, General Motors, Nissan and Toyota. Today Budget Rent A Car is primarily a franchised system."

http://enhancentertainment.com.au/se...=inspirational

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by kaniSS

They know Rudd is a soft touch so they push for it now. I bet you they will get it too.

Government Motors in the U.S got mega millions in 08/09 so why not

And i'm over all these new cars being updated every two years selling all that consumerism BS....why cant we all keep our cars a bit longer and just put up with what we have?

[GT69]

Build the cars people want to buy, and they wont go broke. Build cars that no-one wants, and look what happens.

Ford has had a long time to build Ranger (you know, high profit vehicle) instead they are pulling the pin. Which is fair enough, at least they aren't crying every 5 seconds for more money.

Holden has had the same options, if GM wants to stay here, I'm sure they'll make it work. But as far as I'm concerned, Holden is just like GM, same BS from the same company, restructure, reform and redevelop...oh god no, lets just keep doing the same thing hoping it'll work out this time.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I want them both to stay and be profitable, but it might pay to face facts, if they're parent companies wanted to stay, they would. Neither shows any real interest in staying here long term.

[imugli]

Originally Posted by GT69

Build the cars people want to buy, and they wont go broke. Build cars that no-one wants, and look what happens.

The problem is, they still probably would go broke.

Case in point is the Corolla. It's one of the top selling cars in the country, and even Toyota couldn't make that here profitably.

The simple fact is that they don't have the scale to make enough units in oz to make the cost per vehicle competitive against a Thai factory that produces 250,000 units per year and sell it at a price that makes it profitable.

Sad as it is, they just don't.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by ivorya

Sorry to hurt your feelings but you must have missed the video clip of all the Holden Management, on the VF press drive all hovered around the car when the decision to close Fords Door.
Let me say this, they weren't very upset..... quite a few smug/smerking looking faces there.

you mean that holden should care about ford at the VF press release?

if ford said something a week earlier or later things would have been different.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by ute83

In 20 years time I can see us as a country saying I wish we were still making stuff in this country.

20 years .......
Be a lot sooner than that ...
We should have taken stock 20 years ago ,and stopped the import flood coming

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by EF_6

And i'm over all these new cars being updated every two years selling all that consumerism BS....why cant we all keep our cars a bit longer and just put up with what we have?

Be interesting to see what the average private consumer keeps their car for
Its not the private sector doin the 2,3 year flip ,its mostly businesses

IF we all kept them longer Ford, Holden and Toyota would have closed years ago .....

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Be interesting to see what the average private consumer keeps their car for
Its not the private sector doin the 2,3 year flip ,its mostly businesses

IF we all kept them longer Ford, Holden and Toyota would have closed years ago .....

As far as I can see the industry is screwing itself up.... making cars that only last 5 years then they want you to throw it away and buy a new one.... Not to mention the depreciation..... Both of my EFs are worth about 5k each and they still get me around quite well.....I keep the money I save in the bank or invest it somewhere else..... And I don't need all this technology they're pushing these days!

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Buntz

The Automotive industry has put $50 billion dollars back into the wealth of the nation over the last decade. Our governments have invested less than a tenth of that over that time.

So no... the money couldn't be spent any better than putting it into Automotive manufacturing.

Not saying they shouldnt invest. Far from it. But they need to be smarter on how they do it. Not just hadning over cash, Do it indirectly. It is very possible. They are happy to hand out cash for TV's or Pinkbats which was a disgraceful waste of money when it coukd have been spent more intelligently.

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

The most Governments purchases have come to in the last 8 years was 87,000 cars purchased in 2005. Take into account alot of "specific requirements" when purchasing government vehicles (thus limiting all the locally made stuff), then theirs Buckleys chance that an extra 200,000 cars will be purchased by the government. And I can just imagine what it would do to reale values and private buyer desires if governments are buying 250,000 cars from a production run of 400,000 cars.

Specific requirements? Sorry but really? Is it the number of wheels required? Specific paint colour? Struggling here why a Falcon EcoBoost, EcoLPI, Diesel Cruze, Diesel Territory couldn't fit into a 'green' policy? Do they need bullet proof glass? Ashtrays?

If resale values drop to such a disastrous level ....... GREAT!!!!! That means that the incentives have worked substantially!!!!!! Another bonus for those who want to buy second hand? Win Win!!!! If its the large corporations and govco buying these things with a rebate and are happy to do so, they are the ones taking the hit!

One of the biggest selling car is the Toyota Hilux? Go and see what they are worth on the second hand market. Frightening. Corolla and Mazda 3's???

By all means, support the industry but so much can be done which would also benefit many other industries in the process. It is so so easy to do.

[290v]

But Australian made pay NO tax / buy imports pay tax

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Not saying they shouldnt invest. Far from it. But they need to be smarter on how they do it. Not just hadning over cash, Do it indirectly. It is very possible. They are happy to hand out cash for TV's or Pinkbats which was a disgraceful waste of money when it coukd have been spent more intelligently.

How would they do it though? I wouldn't trust the people that handed out cash for TV's and Pinkbats to decide what parts of the cars to pay for.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Buntz

The Automotive industry has put $50 billion dollars back into the wealth of the nation over the last decade. Our governments have invested less than a tenth of that over that time.

Ah, Ford alone have had $2.5 Billion.

[UberKnee]

Its inevitable that Holden eventually ceases local manufacturing. They have a smaller market share thesedays and it only gets smaller with each passing year and the constantly improving imports. Millions upon millions of dollars given to them over and over again is just money wasted. It was only a couple of years ago they got a big handout that was meant to keep them in a good spot for the next decade. Now they're already crying poor because the Yanks dont care about the Commodore.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Buntz

How would they do it though? I wouldn't trust the people that handed out cash for TV's and Pinkbats to decide what parts of the cars to pay for.

Yes .... thats the stumbling block. You would think that those in charge could manage a simple task but to much politics in politics.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Yes .... thats the stumbling block. You would think that those in charge could manage a simple task but to much politics in politics.

Dennis Napthine might, he turned on a $10 million Fibre connection today and it's 10 times faster than the proposed NBN - no wonder Quigley has quit.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by Buntz

How would they do it though? I wouldn't trust the people that handed out cash for TV's and Pinkbats to decide what parts of the cars to pay for.

Just a thought, two ways:
'x'% of government and public service cars are australian made.
Supporting the automotive suppliers that are local, and assist with other things that can be manufactured alongside of (my old work took up at least one contract that I know of for something non-automotive, and were gunning for a couple of other wins). Supporting these guys would indirectly support the OEM, by making locally made parts cheaper, HOWEVER would also help set up these companies to move away from automotive if need be and the OEMs **** it all up.

Just an idea though.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Never the less, funding came from SA on the understanding that employment would be maintained.

It seems funny that not so long ago $275 million in funding help seal plans for a further ten years of production
but now, not so long afterwards, the plan is in doubt unless funding is significantly increased and wages reduced....

What am I missing?

I think they planned on VF being a smash hit and rapidly increasing sales, which hasn't happened, and now they have massively overspent they have realized without that extra volume they are screwed. Not to mention the huge price cuts on them that directly reduce profit.

I read an article recently with a comment from a Holden managers mouth (supposedly off the record), that some variants of the Cruze cost more to build than some versions of the Commodore. And the Commodore sells for much more. No wonder Ford and Toyota could not figure out how Holden was going to make a cent on Cruze, because they can't.

[GREGL]

Simple answer, F.B.T on sedans, little or no F.B.T on commercials. Hence the high sales numbers on dual cabs and as a flow on helping the hilux to the no. 1 selling ute. All initiated by the Govt., makes a lot of sense doesn't it. Close one loophole to open up another.
Now instead of only driving you taxpayer funded vehicle with family members around, you can also take them to the local tip if your so inclined .
Changing the FBT would be start , a federally imposed tax which is applicable to state and local govts forcing them to not being able to buy a falcon or commodore, there is part of the problem.