TRD Aurion comparable to XR6T ?

[XR6Runner]

Originally Posted by b0son

The ST would likely have a higher mid-corner speed...

The VF ute is 20sec/lap slower than an RS250 around the Ring, despite the last minute of that lap being pretty much a straight line, and giving away an awful lot of power. I think you'd be surprised how quick FWDs can be.

Comparing lap times is like comparing 1/4 times. You need same driver and same conditions. Not bagging the RS250, just bagging your logic

[SensationFG8]

Originally Posted by b0son

The ST would likely have a higher mid-corner speed...

The VF ute is 20sec/lap slower than an RS250 around the Ring, despite the last minute of that lap being pretty much a straight line, and giving away an awful lot of power. I think you'd be surprised how quick FWDs can be.

The ST would have a higher mid corner speed than what? I don't drive a VF Ute...

My car weighs roughly the same or less than the st, has rwd, 40/60 weight distribution, big anti roll bars front and rear and a lower cog. How does that translate to lower mid corner speed?

[Maka]

Originally Posted by XR6Runner

Comparing lap times is like comparing 1/4 times. You need same driver and same conditions. Not bagging the RS250, just bagging your logic

Nothing wrong with Boson's logic, its your logic that needs bagging! Theres no logic to your statement

Any car magazine worth its salt that tests performance cars, use lap times & quarter mile times to put their road test findings into perspective - Wheels BFYB testing for instance! If they say, power down is lacking coming out of a corner during road testing they will try & replicate that while track testing.

cheers, Maka

[Maka]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

The ST would have a higher mid corner speed than what? I don't drive a VF Ute...

My car weighs roughly the same or less than the st, has rwd, 40/60 weight distribution, big anti roll bars front and rear and a lower cog. How does that translate to lower mid corner speed?

Your missing the point, current generation hot hatches can do things today on road, dynamically, that they could only dream of ten years ago. To compare your Evora to a ST is like comparing a F1 car to a V8 supercar.

cheers, Maka

[Alan D Segal]

Originally Posted by Maka

Your missing the point, current generation hot hatches can do things today that they could only dream of ten years ago.

Like looking even more girly!

[Maka]

Originally Posted by Maka

Your missing the point, current generation hot hatches can do things today on road, dynamically, that they could only dream of ten years ago. To compare your Evora to a ST is like comparing a F1 car to a V8 supercar.

cheers, Maka

Fixed now Alan

cheers, Maka

[esppwr]

So its fair to compare your wife's hatchback to a 2 tonne sedan around a corner but not in a straight line and it's not fair to compare your wife's hatchback to a rwd sports car.

I see says the blind man.

If fwd was so fantastic why is there not one supercar in this drivetrain configuration, possibly the answer is it's for peasants

[Maka]

Originally Posted by esppwr

So its fair to compare your wife's hatchback to a 2 tonne sedan around a corner but not in a straight line and it's not fair to compare your wife's hatchback to a rwd sports car.

I see says the blind man.

If fwd was so fantastic why is there not one supercar in this drivetrain configuration, possibly the answer is it's for peasants

Your bias shows your ignorance & lack of respect. So a performance FWD cant be a performance car? Have you got a idea?

I will say it again, torque steer & understeer are virtually eliminated in current gen hot hatches, nothing was said about power ok. I mentioned lsd equipped previously not keith black or garrett!

cheers, Maka

[russellw]

The simple answer is NO.

It's a bit like comparing Liberace and Jean Claude van Dumme in a sequinned suit.

Yes they both share some similarities (they are blinged up versions of normal family sedans / both have the same number of X chromosomes) and perform better than those counterparts in their relevant areas but that's where the similarity ends.

Indeed, the named individuals would likely choose the opposite of the two vehicles given the choice.

Cheers
Russ

[b0son]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

The ST would have a higher mid corner speed than what?

Than a 'big boofy sedan'.

My car weighs roughly the same or less than the st, has rwd, 40/60 weight distribution, big anti roll bars front and rear and a lower cog. How does that translate to lower mid corner speed?

What did you have to strip out of your XR8 to do all of that? That's a pretty substantial weight reduction...

[b0son]

Originally Posted by esppwr

So its fair to compare your wife's hatchback to a 2 tonne sedan around a corner but not in a straight line and it's not fair to compare your wife's hatchback to a rwd sports car.

Noone's disputing that a V8 RWD will trounce most FWDs in a straight line. But people are implying a RWD is a better car overall dynamically because its good in a straight line. That's like saying Julia Gillard is sexier than Miranda Kerr because she has bigger tits.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by b0son

But people are implying a RWD is a better car overall dynamically ......

BMW have been saying exactly that for years.

They only recently decided to make a FWD car to have something to compete with the masses of cheaper to manufacture FWD cars on the market.

[SensationFG8]

Originally Posted by b0son

Than a 'big boofy sedan'.
What did you have to strip out of your XR8 to do all of that? That's a pretty substantial weight reduction...

Nothing, the XR8 is my wifes car... The XR8 also does not amaze me going around a corner, I refer to it as "the boat". The XR8 pleases me in many other ways though.

Originally Posted by Maka

Your missing the point, current generation hot hatches can do things today on road, dynamically, that they could only dream of ten years ago. To compare your Evora to a ST is like comparing a F1 car to a V8 supercar.

Not really, my original post said I doubt an ST would amaze me around a corner, that's all, I made no assertion about what it can or cant do compared to other FWD cars. Let's be honest they wont amaze me, I know the comparison is not really fair, but that doesn't change the underwhelming feeling I'll get going around a corner in an ST.

I also said that doesn't take away the joy that your ST gives to you.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

my original post said I doubt an ST would amaze me around a corner, that's all, I made no assertion about what it can or cant do compared to other FWD cars.

You said it would be slower than your RWD. Given we were discussing big boofy sedans, that implied you were comparing it to the XR8.

Obviously, you had moved the goalposts.

[SensationFG8]

Originally Posted by b0son

You said it would be slower than your RWD. Given we were discussing big boofy sedans, that implied you were comparing it to the XR8.

Obviously, you had moved the goalposts.

Thankfully the forum doesn't allow us to move goalposts... Post 82 on the previous page...

I dont think amazing would be the word, I very much doubt the ST would impress me through the twisties and it doesn't have enough grunt on the straights.

Point me to the bit where I was comparing it to an XR8?

Post 87 on the previous page

No my cars are in my sig not hiding anything, I know the ST cant match my car on straights or in corners, it therefore wouldn't amaze me. Each to their own and it takes nothing away from the joy your ST gives to you.

The only reason I was really posting in this thread was to sing the praises of the engine in the TRD which is 90% the same as the engine in my car. It really is a nice motor.

This one is the closest we get to me talking about an exact car, which one of my two cars shares most of it's engine with the Aurion TRD?

Post 89 on the previous page

Never suggested people have to like what I like, just that the cornering prowess of the ST wouldn't impress me.

What big boofy sedan that rolls around the corner is it that you're talking about?

This one almost explicitly rules the big boofy sedan out...

[b0son]

When you listed 2 rides, but post in a discussion whose context is rwd sedans, I assumed you were comparing to the car in your sig that was relevant to the discussion. That was an error on my part.

[SensationFG8]

Originally Posted by b0son

When you listed 2 rides, but post in a discussion whose context is rwd sedans, I assumed you were comparing to the car in your sig that was relevant to the discussion. That was an error on my part.

I am posting about the car relevant to the discussion, have been since the start... The Aurion is not a rwd sedan, I have been talking from the perspective of how awesome its engine is since the start, perhaps you just missed the first few pages of the thread.

2GR-FZE
Eaton Roots-type Twin-Vortices supercharger

2007 TRD Aurion (TRD supercharger)
2011-present Lotus Evora S (345 hp, 295 lb-ft)
2012 Lotus Exige S (345 hp, 295 lb-ft)

[tranquilized]

Can we get back to the FWD vs RWD argument? Cause you know, it hasn't really been covered on here before has it, and I'd love to hear which everyone thinks is BEST.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

I am posting about the car relevant to the discussion, have been since the start...

The discussion re: FWD vs RWD handling dynamics was in relation to hot hatches vs XR6T's/SS's/etc.

[SensationFG8]

I recommend you reread my posts taking into account the quotes I was responding to, then take note that all my posts prior to the "amazing ST" handling were related to the TRD engine... Very on topic for a TRD versus XR6T thread.

Aside from that I'll leave any ongoing discussion with you right here.
It's clear you either don't want to accept that it's possible for me to not find ST handling amazing or you just wont accept the context of why I wouldn't find ST handling amazing.

I will reiterate for the sake of the others that have understood what I'm saying. Me not finding and ST handling amazing does not take away the joy they give to the owners. I'm sure 2 years ago I would've remarked and how they hug corners compared to my boat. If I jumped in one today and tried to go around a hairpin I'd probably under steer it into a tree

[b0son]

Meh.. misunderstanding, we'll leave it at that.

As far as relative performance goes, I agree. Very little floats my boat. I have a shifter kart, and you have to spend north of $300k before you get anywhere near that in terms of cornering speed or acceleration. Whenever I've contemplated shelling out for a sports car, the kart has always reminded me that almost no car is going to impress me in the same way.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

I recommend you reread my posts taking into account the quotes I was responding to, then take note that all my posts prior to the "amazing ST" handling were related to the TRD engine... Very on topic for a TRD versus XR6T thread.

Aside from that I'll leave any ongoing discussion with you right here.
It's clear you either don't want to accept that it's possible for me to not find ST handling amazing or you just wont accept the context of why I wouldn't find ST handling amazing.

I will reiterate for the sake of the others that have understood what I'm saying. Me not finding and ST handling amazing does not take away the joy they give to the owners. I'm sure 2 years ago I would've remarked and how they hug corners compared to my boat. If I jumped in one today and tried to go around a hairpin I'd probably under steer it into a tree

I understand your not taking away from what people find enjoyable or joyful in cars. I understand you would find a ST not amazing in the handling stakes compared to your Lotus.

And so you shouldn't, after spending $160,000+ on a ride! Good on you!

About being on topic, when someone lumps in with "all fwd are crap talk" expect some members to disagree with those comments, my comment was flippant but truthful rhetoric anyway!

ps, Toyota wasted that TRD badge on that Aurion! What were they thinking

cheers, Maka

[xr6tjet]

But you're still driving a Camry at the end of the day. Fast or not lol. If you like it by all means each to their own!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Maka

Toyota wasted that TRD badge on that Aurion! What were they thinking

Is it that bad? My only experience is with a regular Aurion Sportivo ZR6. While it cornered reasonably well and the traction control did a reasonable job of keeping the front in check, it had no steering feel/feedback whatsoever... felt like driving a computer game. I'd have thought a TRD would have been a lot better than that?

[Falcman0o7]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

If only people knew what this guy drives

What guy would that be?

[shaness8]

Mrs has a ZR6 nice car for normal driving, got a little get up and go definitely no sports car

200kw thru the front wheels is a struggle with no LSD, a TRD with 241kw and more torque would be wheel spining don't think they have LSD either.

I think i would have a TRD over a BA/BF XR series FG XRT would be better in my opinion

[Maka]

Originally Posted by b0son

Is it that bad? My only experience is with a regular Aurion Sportivo ZR6. While it cornered reasonably well and the traction control did a reasonable job of keeping the front in check, it had no steering feel/feedback whatsoever... felt like driving a computer game. I'd have thought a TRD would have been a lot better than that?

First gen electric power steering was probably the reason behind the lack of feel at the steering wheel not fully sure, though todays tech from what ive read is a lot better.

I was just thinking a "TRD" Aurion was maybe pushing the envelope a bit, but on the other hand, the Aurion was the only big sedan Toyota / TRD had to "skunk up" & compete with FPV & HSV.

I applaud Toyota for at least having a go at building a serious performance V6, though those early few blowups would've scared some people off the TRD for a little while. It was pulled from the market apparently also, not a good look for a skunk car.

cheers, Maka

[zilo]

All you boys who bag FWD cars better get with the program

Unless you plan on driving old falcons with 400 zillion kilometres on them for the rest of your life then you better suck it up.

Ford and Holden will be all front wheel drive, forget all wheel drive it ain't gonna happen...the world wants fuel economy with cheap manufacturing costs and some mild performance.

[SensationFG8]

Originally Posted by zilo

All you boys who bag FWD cars better get with the program

Unless you plan on driving old falcons with 400 zillion kilometres on them for the rest of your life then you better suck it up.

Yep come October I have two cars that I plan on keeping a long long time for precisely that reason. I very much like rwd and don't fancy most of the future of cars currently on our horizon. Time shall tell, I'm interested to see what the us will do to fill the muscle gap left by ford aus and holden.

[shaness8]

Originally Posted by Maka

First gen electric power steering was probably the reason behind the lack of feel at the steering wheel not fully sure, though todays tech from what ive read is a lot better.

I was just thinking a "TRD" Aurion was maybe pushing the envelope a bit, but on the other hand, the Aurion was the only big sedan Toyota / TRD had to "skunk up" & compete with FPV & HSV.

I applaud Toyota for at least having a go at building a serious performance V6, though those early few blowups would've scared some people off the TRD for a little while. It was pulled from the market apparently also, not a good look for a skunk car.

cheers, Maka

The Toyota Aurion TRD never had electric power steering