Qld flash for cash cameras

[mcsweenyfives]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Wasnt that the one where the driver had a heart attack?

Yep any road can be dangerous at any time. You just don't know what week happen. The faster you go the longer it takes to stop and less time to react to something

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by noflac52

so many people are being brainwashed

Some people gift their reason and commonsense to authority. I'm not sure why. Perhaps it's just easier that way (and you can always take the self-righteous high ground).

Pointless discussing anything with those people. After all, govco knows better than we plebs. And when laws are relaxed or rescinded it's always an example of authority getting it right (very rarely is it mentioned that govco originally had it wrong).

Anyhoo, nearly every day I see one of my favourite examples of dimwittery.

On my way home there is a street that was, around 12 months ago, repaved.

During the repaving process (on a wide street) a "speed calmer" was removed (involved lines and speed bumps forcing traffic into a narrow funnel against a road divider. Originally one had to slow from 50kph to about 30kph to negotiate it.

When line marking was done on the new bitumen they put the lines where they were but as yet (12 months down the track) have not replaced the multiple speed bumps.

So approaching this area one is faced with a wide street with a single line road marking which means you'll have to slow down to negotiate.... err, well, to negotiate the funnel which isn't there any more.

Judging by the worn paint on the road marking most people do what I do.

Drive in a straight line (rather than follow the painted line).

However, there's always someone who mindlessly follows the line.

It's actually disconcerting to see it. There's absolutely no reason to do it but because the line is there Mr or Mrs Timid can't force themselves to think that perhaps it isn't necessary.

I hope they don't/didn't breed...

[jstanovic]

My last speeding ticket was about 8 or 9 years ago. Since then I all my cars have had cruise control and no speeding tickets since haha!! Just gotta watch the downhill runs...

[DRU842]

I'd just like to make two points here , not specifically related to the situation in Queensland , as I think they are generic to Australian road safety:
* why is there no emphasis on driver training / licence renewal. I am certain that most of us need to recertify at work for some type of safety or legal aspect on a regular basis. Why is there NOTHING done about driver education.
* A sad but understated aspect of the road toll is suicide, particularly by young males. To protect the family, the authorities will often report these events as 'speeding' (the easiest option as discussed on numerous occasions in this & other threads).

[Tom Tucker]

Originally Posted by getabout

While I hate the way we are being increasingly put under surveillance I would love to have private cars randomly fitted with speed cameras, with the owner's permission of course. Just imagine if idiot speeders are fearful that the "old bomb" they see coming towards them is effectively a 'cop' car !! The cameras could be swapped on a regular basis and maybe a small reward for the carrier of it. The limits may seem a bit restrictive but have been worked out very carefully. The risk of crash or severe injury increases quite dramatically after 100kmh for example. The limits are not just there to stop crashes but to limit the following damage. If people want to be children ("aww look at me going so fast and getting sideways") they shouldn't be on the road. Let them go to a private racetrack to fulfill their boy-racer fantasies because innocent people being killed or mangled is no joke!

Surely you're not serious. You Sir, are why Australia is the nanny state it is.

I assume you'd support surveillance devices fitted to every vehicle, linked to GPS, where you automatically receive a fine for traffic infringements?

Here is my argument. As a tax payer, driving on the road isn't a privilege, it's a right. Yes, there needs to be enforcement of traffic regulations (we're not a third world country, and it's not open slather), but as soon as my driving on the road becomes a source of income for the govt (beyond registration), and they have a vested interest in collecting as much revenue as possible, then civil liberties are at stake. Anyone who swallows the road safety propaganda and fails to recognise the insidious nature of this rampant taxation is as much part of the problem as the govt themselves.

[noflac52]

Revenue!!!!!! The reason why driver training isn't taken seriously. If all drivers are trained to a high degree the argument against higher speed limits becomes weakened. Higher speed limits means less law breaking and falling revenue.

Revenue is also the reason that driverless cars won't be welcome here for a long time unless there is a complete shift in Govco thinking. Driverless cars will follow all the rules regardless how stupid they are.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by b0son

But nor is it taken into account by the police, government or road safety experts. We, as drivers, are continually subjected to accusations of irresponsibility, told we're not getting the message, and used as justification for ever more draconian enforcement.

How do you know this they don't take it into account?

You cant have it both ways. Either things are getting better, or they're not. Police want to take credit for improvements while telling us we're getting worse.

If you look at the issue simplistically, I agree with you. To get a true picture though, we need to look at far more stats than road deaths. I'm certainly no expert on the matter (just like everyone posting here) but its not hard to see that population growth increase, which flows onto more drivers and the number of kilometres driven increases. Actually, I just did a quick Google and found facts -

https://bitre.gov.au/publications/on...al_2014_II.pdf

Have a look at pages 13, 21 & 24 (pdf page numbers), you can see that the death toll has dropped. Look at NT's death toll stats, much higher as a percentage of its population than any other state.

If you look at NT's accident stats -
https://dipl.nt.gov.au/__data/assets...ds-11-8-16.pdf

The biggest cause both in one year and a ten year trend was alcohol and speed. What's not spelt out in these figures is when a combination of causes and what came first, ie was a driver speeding and not wearing a seatbelt?


I don't believe the Police set the speed limits neither, isn't it set using international standards adapted to Australian conditions with accident stats factored in for a specific stretch of road?

@Tom Tucker, I believe the right is to travel and a drivers licence is a privilege...

[Tom Tucker]

Originally Posted by Kieron

@Tom Tucker, I believe the right is to travel and a drivers licence is a privilege...

Incorrect. Having a licence isn't a privilege, it's a matter of passing a test and paying a fee. Having your licence suspended or revoked is a punishment.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by Tom Tucker

Incorrect. Having a licence isn't a privilege, it's a matter of passing a test and paying a fee. Having your licence suspended or revoked is a punishment.

Have you got a link that says this Tom?

A simple quick Google confirms what I said for two states -

http://www.transport.tas.gov.au/lice...arry_it_on_you

A driver licence is a privilege not a right and it is not unreasonable to require drivers to produce their licence to identify themselves and to prove that they are appropriately licensed and driving within any conditions of their licence.


http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/media...RideSafeP3.pdf

To hold a driver’s licence is not a right - it is a privilege

[Tom Tucker]

A link to prove a philosophical standpoint?

I guess the OPs original post about questionable road safety cameras is null and void under the weight of internet links from govt agencies that helpfully inform us that speeding is more dangerous than being drunk, high, or asleep behind the wheel.

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by Tom Tucker

A link to prove a philosophical standpoint?

FWIW, I think the definition is accurate but "privilege" has lost significant impact over time.

Govt would like us to think it's a gift or a big deal but of course it's about as "special" as catching a train to work.

Buy your ticket, don't cause any problems and you're welcome to be as special as everyone else.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by Tom Tucker

A link to prove a philosophical standpoint?

I guess the OPs original post about questionable road safety cameras is null and void under the weight of internet links from govt agencies that helpfully inform us that speeding is more dangerous than being drunk, high, or asleep behind the wheel.

Your posts came across as clearly stating it was fact, not your philosophy Tom...

Your second paragraph is adding your opinion. Simple fact is, in most things, the big ticket items get the most attention, if most accidents were caused by falling asleep or smoking pot, then they would receive the most attention.

[Uncle_Ken]

if speed is such a killer and governments are worried about people dying and not raising $$$ why haven't governments legislated (like seat belts and air-bags) top speed limiters (either mechanical or GPS based)? That would stop the speeding deaths overnight (yes I know 'old' car would not have such devices etc). If it was GPS based it could even adjust for zones (like 100 down to 80 and then back up again etc).
Sir Humphrey might say it would be a 'courageous decision'
UK

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by Uncle_Ken

if speed is such a killer and governments are worried about people dying and not raising $$$ why haven't governments legislated (like seat belts and air-bags) top speed limiters (either mechanical or GPS based)?

Yep, drop max speed down to 80kph on the hwy and 20kph around town.

The truth is that much as they waffle on justifying extra "life-saving" measures, the death rate vs revenue is very acceptable.

Well, I guess at the rate of increase of "life-saving" devices and the continual increase in fines the revenue side of it has a life of it's own.

What a windfall!

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by mcsweenyfives

Yep any road can be dangerous at any time. You just don't know what week happen. The faster you go the longer it takes to stop and less time to react to something

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

So an accident where the ONLY fatality was the driver who died from a heart attack is enough of an event to create a "Accident black spot" requiring a "life saving" speed camera?

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by mcsweenyfives

Yep any road can be dangerous at any time. You just don't know what week happen. The faster you go the longer it takes to stop and less time to react to something

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

And if one had driven faster , they would have completely missed out on that hazard they would have encountered if they had been traveling at the limit.

[noflac52]

Originally Posted by Kieron

Your posts came across as clearly stating it was fact, not your philosophy Tom...

Your second paragraph is adding your opinion. Simple fact is, in most things, the big ticket items get the most attention, if most accidents were caused by falling asleep or smoking pot, then they would receive the most attention.

"The big ticket items get the most attention"?

Sorry, when it comes to road safety the items that can get the most tickets for Govco get the most attention in our time!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Kieron

if most accidents were caused by falling asleep or smoking pot, then they would receive the most attention.

So most accidents are caused by speeding? Because when the ATSB used to publish the raw data, speeding was not causative in the vast majority of crashes.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by b0son

So most accidents are caused by speeding? Because when the ATSB used to publish the raw data, speeding was not causative in the vast majority of crashes.

25% of accidents are speed related.. but the Police focus on that more than the other 75% of accident causes....why ? easiest to Police !!!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by csv8

25% of accidents are speed related

That doesn't mean the drivers were speeding, let alone that the speed was causative.

When the numbers were available, it was <<10% of crashes caused by excessive speed over the limit. Yet for the purposes of the officially sanctioned guilt-trip, the definition of speeding isn't the same as the one that gets you a fine. Its simply, could the crash have been mitigated by going slower....

[Squalo]

"Speed was a factor" is a line the police are told to parrot, to justify cameras.

It's similar to how they report motorcycle fatalities. They'll never tell you this, but all offroad (farm, motocross, general dirtbiking) fatalities are counted towards the overall motorcyclist road toll, even though it totally skews the figures.

"Speeding? You're in our budget projections."

[csv8]

http://www.themorningbulletin.com.au...129517/?ref=hs
Rockhampton and Capricorn Coast hidden speed camera sites.

[Pedro]

From the news link in csv9's post above ...

"According to the Queensland Government, speeding is one of the major causes of fatalities on Queensland roads with 62 people killed as a result of crashes involving speeding drivers or riders in 2015."

But wait ... Qld Govt statistics reported 242 fatalities in 2015 ... so if 62 of those involved speed then that's 25.6% of the total. "a major cause"?????

And so the EFN BS just keeps churning out.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by Pedro

From the news link in csv9's post above ...

"According to the Queensland Government, speeding is one of the major causes of fatalities on Queensland roads with 62 people killed as a result of crashes involving speeding drivers or riders in 2015."

But wait ... Qld Govt statistics reported 242 fatalities in 2015 ... so if 62 of those involved speed then that's 25.6% of the total. "a major cause"?????

And so the EFN BS just keeps churning out.

It could be BS, but it could also be the way your reading the article.

Do we have access to the causes of the remaining 180 accidents? Could it be that 25.6% is correct, maybe 23% alcohol, 20% not wearing seatbelt, 15% inattention, 5% mechanical failure etc etc?
If that's the case, then the 3 major causes of fatalities involved speed, alcohol or seatbelt. Therefore, no BS.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Kieron

It could be BS, but it could also be the way your reading the article.

It is BS.

Most people think that speeding is just driving over the speed limit, but speeding is also driving at a speed that is inappropriate for the driving conditions, such as rain, fog, traffic or traffic flow.

How many of those 'speeding' drivers were over the speed limit? Probably not many. Yet this is the primary justification for speed enforcement.

What camera enforces appropriate speeds BELOW the limit? NONE. That comes down to the cop putting down his f#ing iPad and actually driving his car and observing driver behaviour.

[ronwest]

I, for one, would be very interested to know what percentage (or raw numbers) of speeding tickets are for <10kph and also <5kph.

Govts won't release that stat so one may draw the conclusion that it's the vast majority.

The speeding message infers that there are millions of demons out there driving at hideous speeds.

No doubt there are some but they're not the source of revenue.

I do get a bit irate about it. I'd get less irate if govt admitted the revenue side. It'd at least show some honesty.

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by Kieron

It could be BS, but it could also be the way your reading the article.

Do we have access to the causes of the remaining 180 accidents? Could it be that 25.6% is correct, maybe 23% alcohol, 20% not wearing seatbelt, 15% inattention, 5% mechanical failure etc etc?
If that's the case, then the 3 major causes of fatalities involved speed, alcohol or seatbelt. Therefore, no BS.

The figures you posted are assumptions on your part.

The true figures from the Qld Govt website are (in part) ...
Alcohol/drug related crashes - 40.3%
Unrestrained vehicle occupants - 27.3%
Involving speeding drivers and riders – 25.5%

So you can see that alchohol/drugs is the major cause - not "speed".
Therefore BS.

[TheSneakiness]

What about "inattention due to technology"? *smug*

Also, this is what these cameras remind me of.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by Pedro

The figures you posted are assumptions on your part.

The true figures from the Qld Govt website are (in part) ...
Alcohol/drug related crashes - 40.3%
Unrestrained vehicle occupants - 27.3%
Involving speeding drivers and riders – 25.5%

So you can see that alchohol/drugs is the major cause - not "speed".
Therefore BS.

Obviously my figures were assumptions. They were used to highlight B0sons interpretation of the article.

However, it simple isn't BS. Here's the exact wording -

"According to the Queensland Government, speeding is one of the major causes of fatalities on Queensland"

Key words here are "one of the major", it doesn't say "the major".

Having said that, these figures are a little misleading, a quick read and you'd say speed is third, but unrestrained occupants aren't the cause of an accident and if you look further down the 2015 QLD document your quoting those figures from, you'll see they have the following for 2015 -

Involving drink drivers/riders - 23.5% (Drugs and inebriated pedestrians removed presumably)
Involving speeding drivers/riders - 25.5%

Check out the 2015 NSW report (PDF page 119) -
http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov....hstats2015.pdf

Alcohol involved in crash - 1,064 people injured or killed.
speed involved in crash - 3,882 "

Out of interest, what do the pro 'revenue raiser' guys/girls think the money
is used for?

[noflac52]

Unrestrained occupants aren't the cause of accidents but that's not what the article says. It says that they are a major cause of fatalities. Which is correct! They are!

It still puts speeding at no three.

It's so easy to change statistics by changing one word to suit a particular viewpoint.