Oh dear! - Page 4

b0son · 10-05-2019, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

I have seen official stats presented by a policeman that without doubt supports their action. The graphs showed with the introduction of various police road focus's that deaths and serious injuries have dropped.

I'm willing to bet there were some cherry-picked stats there, and some not very rigorous statistical analysis. For example, when the NSW RTA trialled 50 zones, they pronounced them a success despite average traffic speeds still being well over 50, and only fell by tiny margin (nowhere near enough to impact stopping distances significantly). What their analysis completely omitted was traffic migration away from these 50 zones, no analysis of the increase in crash rate on the roads the traffic migrated to, and no accounting for the program of introducing traffic-calming devices on a number of the 50 zone trial roads by local councils at the same time.

ute83 · 10-05-2019, 01:32 PM

In regards to stopping distances.

https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Dr...-vehicles.aspx

Vesper Martini · 10-05-2019, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute83

In regards to stopping distances.

https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Dr...-vehicles.aspx

That doesn't seem right, stopping distance for a car at 60kph is 73m? am I reading it wrong?

says here its 45m and that includes 25m of reaction time.
https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/saf...istances/graph

personally Id like to think I could pull up in much much less

b0son · 10-05-2019, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

personally Id like to think I could pull up in much much less

Can you do better than a 1.5sec reaction time? ….

ute83 · 10-05-2019, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

Can you do better than a 1.5sec reaction time? ….

In an emergency, I would think so.

lra · 10-05-2019, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ute83

In regards to stopping distances. https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Dr...-vehicles.aspx

157 metres from100km/h ??? One and half lengths of a football field ??? Really, on a wet day, with bald tyres, and brakes on one wheel ??

Have a look here ………. https://www.whichcar.com.au/events/t...15-dry-braking

Yes, I realise that Luffy knows a bit on how to drive, and he had good tyres on a new car, but the Qld distances are four times longer, and quite unbelievable for normal circumstances.

Bossxr8 · 10-05-2019, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

yep HV brakes have got better, much better, disc for an example

well I beg to differ on your assertion, truck drivers are on the road 8, 10 12 hours a day plying their trade, you are trying to tell me that the occasional driver has better skills - hmmm???? Don't judge the masses by the actions of a few

I'd make the point that a truck driver who has been on the road for long hours is probably fatigued ,and if anything would be more likely to have normal to worse reaction times than a driver who has only done a short trip.

But there are numpties in all sorts of different vehicles. How some people even get a licence is beyond me.

Vesper Martini · 10-05-2019, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

Can you do better than a 1.5sec reaction time? ….

Of course.
a soccer Goalie has about 0.3 secs to react
They say Lewis Hamilton has a 0.2 sec reaction

b0son · 10-05-2019, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Of course.
a soccer Goalie has about 0.3 secs to react
They say Lewis Hamilton has a 0.2 sec reaction

LOL, sorry, I thought sarcasm would be obvious

I could do better than 1.5sec on fentanyl. On the athletics track, 0.1-0.2sec is pretty typical. I'd be astounded if someone needed more than 0.5sec, and would question whether they should be operating any sort of machinery.

ute83 · 10-05-2019, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lra

157 metres from100km/h ??? One and half lengths of a football field ??? Really, on a wet day, with bald tyres, and brakes on one wheel ??

Have a look here ………. https://www.whichcar.com.au/events/t...15-dry-braking

Yes, I realise that Luffy knows a bit on how to drive, and he had good tyres on a new car, but the Qld distances are four times longer, and quite unbelievable for normal circumstances.

I would use those figures as a comparison between trucks and cars for the benefit for those that think a fully laden truck can out brake a car.

Trevor 57 · 10-05-2019, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'd make the point that a truck driver who has been on the road for long hours is probably fatigued ,and if anything would be more likely to have normal to worse reaction times than a driver who has only done a short trip.

But there are numpties in all sorts of different vehicles. How some people even get a licence is beyond me.

Are you fatigued after a normal days work?

Are you thinking about interstate truck drivers only? it is important that you realise that less than 15% of trucks go interstate, over 85% drive around within the State or intra-state

Trevor 57 · 10-05-2019, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Of course.
a soccer Goalie has about 0.3 secs to react
They say Lewis Hamilton has a 0.2 sec reaction

1 to 1.5 seconds is about the average reaction time, those stats have been around a very long time

This is an auto forum so obviously there are people here who are passionate about cars, but take the blinkers off and think about "average" for a minute, old folk, young folk with no interest in cars, migrants, soccer mums whose only driving is to drop off the kids etc etc etc etc

Trevor 57 · 10-05-2019, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

That doesn't seem right, stopping distance for a car at 60kph is 73m? am I reading it wrong?

says here its 45m and that includes 25m of reaction time.
https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/saf...istances/graph

personally Id like to think I could pull up in much much less

sounds about right for the "average" driver

**GasoLane** · 10-05-2019, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'd make the point that a truck driver who has been on the road for long hours is probably fatigued ,and if anything would be more likely to have normal to worse reaction times than a driver who has only done a short trip.

Been there and done that have you ?

Ben73 · 10-05-2019, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

I have seen official stats presented by a policeman that without doubt supports their action. The graphs showed with the introduction of various police road focus's that deaths and serious injuries have dropped.

People need to remember where we have come from. The road toll in 1970 for Victoria only was 1071, last year in Victoria it was around 212, yes there has been improvements in roads, and massive improvements in vehicle safety, but the enforcement has also contributed, considering the amount of cars on the roads now versus 1970

I'm sure policing helps people pull their heads in and drive better, but it seems too much focus is put onto things that are hardly the worst driving habits.

I'm all for road safety. Driving country roads at night I worry about the other drivers coming towards me. I always watch them for anything usual. Veering out of the middle of the lane, delayed dimming of high beam, pretty much anything that isn't 100% normal. Ill be ready to drive off into a paddock to avoid a head on. Worse part is I have work colleagues who have actually done this to avoid a head on in the middle of the night. The other driver was so polite they kept driving.
I think there's not much worse then passing an oncoming vehicle at 2:38am, on a bridge, especially if it's a truck. They cross that centre line there is nothing you can do. I really don't worry whether they are doing 97km/h or 110km/h. Minor speed variations is pretty low down on my list of concerns.

You see it all the time. Some idiot high on drugs, .22 BAC, suspended licence, unroadworthy car will crash into a tree at 2am and kill themselves and some cop will get on TV and say "People need to slow down this holiday season"
Pretty sure almost every media release by the police with that "slow down" quote was always in response to a crash that had nothing to do with speeding.
I'm not saying speed is never an issue, it just seems that it's focused on a lot compared to all the other issues we see everyday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

LOL, sorry, I thought sarcasm would be obvious

I could do better than 1.5sec on fentanyl. On the athletics track, 0.1-0.2sec is pretty typical. I'd be astounded if someone needed more than 0.5sec, and would question whether they should be operating any sort of machinery.

Still not the worst I have heard. Last time I saw this topic on this forum a member said the normal reaction time was 3 to 4 seconds.
If you're zoned out I would hope your reaction time was a second at the most. That's actually a lot of time while driving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Are you fatigued after a normal days work?

Not allowed to drive while fatigued the police say. It's not good for safety.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ed taxi

on the very same rd Anzac Ave further up at Mango hill they have changed the speed limit from 80 to 70 why ??

I noticed in NSW they love doing major roadworks and making a road 1000% safer, then dropping the speed limit by 10-20km/h once the work is done.
Funnily enough you then see HP there every second day doing speed checks even though I had never once seen HP in that location in the past 15 years.
Coincidence I guess.

**aussiblue** · 10-05-2019, 09:17 PM

He's waiting for this old codger: https://www.facebook.com/DashCamOwne...27138871092451

ronwest · 10-05-2019, 10:45 PM

I don't believe that truck drivers reaction times are any better than anyone else.

What I do think is that the experience garnered through long hours/long distances is the ability to anticipate a likely series of events before they actually happen.

We've probably all had a "feeling" about a car on the side of the road just before it chucks a u-ey in front of us.

I think that sense is heightened in experienced drivers.

Add to that the fact they have much better forward vision and need to be more attentive due to size, etc.

**aussiblue** · 10-05-2019, 11:01 PM

Alternative link for that video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQKlbloIu1Q

Trevor 57 · 11-05-2019, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronwest

I don't believe that truck drivers reaction times are any better than anyone else.

What I do think is that the experience garnered through long hours/long distances is the ability to anticipate a likely series of events before they actually happen.

We've probably all had a "feeling" about a car on the side of the road just before it chucks a u-ey in front of us.

I think that sense is heightened in experienced drivers.

Add to that the fact they have much better forward vision and need to be more attentive due to size, etc.

driven many trucks?

ford71V8 · 11-05-2019, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussiblue

He's waiting for this old codger: https://www.facebook.com/DashCamOwne...27138871092451

Bloody hell, the one car that looked like it might take out the Gopher was the police vehicle....was there any need to dart down the inside at speed like that?

**aussiblue** · 11-05-2019, 12:14 PM

He was a missing 92 year old https://www.9news.com.au/national/ne...7-cf451e33f7ad

ronwest · 11-05-2019, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

driven many trucks?

Somewhere around 2 million kms worth.

Why?

hayseed · 11-05-2019, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronwest

I don't believe that truck drivers reaction times are any better than anyone else.

What I do think is that the experience garnered through long hours/long distances is the ability to anticipate a likely series of events before they actually happen.

We've probably all had a "feeling" about a car on the side of the road just before it chucks a u-ey in front of us.

I think that sense is heightened in experienced drivers.

Add to that the fact they have much better forward vision and need to be more attentive due to size, etc.

^^^^^^^^Plus one to this ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Trevor 57 · 12-05-2019, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

Not allowed to drive while fatigued the police say. It's not good for safety.

the question was not particularly about driving, if it was I would have said so

Trevor 57 · 12-05-2019, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronwest

I don't believe that truck drivers reaction times are any better than anyone else.

so, what you are saying is the people who ply their trade for 8, 10 and 12 hours a day are not going to be better skilled than a hobbyist who do it 1, 2 maybe and I mean maybe 4 hours per day?

What trade are you? Are very part time hobbyist's as good at you are your trade? Just think about it for a second

and I notice you have changed your tune from HV drivers being no different from any other road user, to adding things they are going to be better at

XR Martin · 12-05-2019, 06:53 AM

Yeah I suspect someone who has done million plus kms of driving would be much more able to predict what's going to happen around them, than someone who does 5000km a year.

BENT_8 · 12-05-2019, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronwest

I don't believe that truck drivers reaction times are any better than anyone else.

What I do think is that the experience garnered through long hours/long distances is the ability to anticipate a likely series of events before they actually happen.

We've probably all had a "feeling" about a car on the side of the road just before it chucks a u-ey in front of us.

I think that sense is heightened in experienced drivers.

Add to that the fact they have much better forward vision and need to be more attentive due to size, etc.

I think the two go hand in hand, someone said before that Lewis Hamilton has a 0.2s reaction time, but that's because he is practiced at expecting a particular event to take place, the start of a race, average joe may never need reflexes like that and so they spend most of their day in their comfort zone until something unexpected happens which they aren't prepared for.
As you say, heavy vehicle drivers see a lot more of what the general driving public have to offer and so whilst behind the wheel they are continually expecting the unexpected and as a result have 'practice' at sharpening their reaction times, not to Lewis Hamilton's level, but certainly better than many others.
Im not as experienced as some of our career drivers but I know from my time behind the wheel that the heightened sense of attention required keeps you in anticipation and ready to react.
It transfers to everyday driving in that im continually scanning the road ahead for likely hazards and at the end of a long day, an interstate trip etc. I am exhausted from the experience.

b0son · 12-05-2019, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

so, what you are saying is the people who ply their trade for 8, 10 and 12 hours a day are not going to be better skilled than a hobbyist who do it 1, 2 maybe and I mean maybe 4 hours per day?

Reaction time is not a skill per se, its a physiological response. It can be trained, but we're talking about improving it from say 0.3sec to 0.2sec, or making it more consistent. Where experience matters is anticipation - learning what warrants a reaction and what does not.

Considering how unhealthy the average truck driver is, I'd honestly be very surprised if their reaction times are anything to write home about. OTOH, their ability to respond appropriately, I would expect to be above average.

ronwest · 12-05-2019, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

so, what you are saying is the people who ply their trade for 8, 10 and 12 hours a day are not going to be better skilled than a hobbyist who do it 1, 2 maybe and I mean maybe 4 hours per day?

What trade are you? Are very part time hobbyist's as good at you are your trade? Just think about it for a second

and I notice you have changed your tune from HV drivers being no different from any other road user, to adding things they are going to be better at

Jeez, it can't be that difficult, can it?

Are we talking about skills or are we talking about reaction time?

They are not the same thing.

Yes I agree that someone who does more of something is likely to have more skills in that arena than a novice.

No, I disagree that the experienced person necessarily has a quicker reaction time.

Yes I think that anticipation goes with experience.

I can't make my view any clearer but in any case it's not written in stone that you and I have to agree on anything so I'm happy to have you disagree.

pottery beige · 12-05-2019, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronwest

Jeez, it can't be that difficult, can it?

Are we talking about skills or are we talking about reaction time?

They are not the same thing.

Yes I agree that someone who does more of something is likely to have more skills in that arena than a novice.

No, I disagree that the experienced person necessarily has a quicker reaction time.

Yes I think that anticipation goes with experience.

I can't make my view any clearer but in any case it's not written in stone that you and I have to agree on anything so I'm happy to have you disagree.

All good here, mate. Trevs probably pssd you have more miles up and experience behind the wheel.