drive.com.au at it again!

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by FLYXR6

Yeah slick i agree with you, I was trying to make a point that we have to accept other peoples opinions as just that opinions, not everyone will agree and thats what makes the FF an exciting place... if some one goes against the trend they are not booted, however when it comes to personal attacks on forum members, thats just not on no?

Its stopped raining, I must go wash and polish my pride and joy.

Yes personal attacks should be delt with no matter who it is they are always wrong. I think half of Aus is on FF It's always buzzing.

Originally Posted by Aeron

Im not saying that Holden pay them to say good things about the new VE. Its a fantastic car, the best ever built in Australia, but the writers complaints about the BA and glair off the dash, steering too sensitive & the drivers seat too low etc... is a load of crap. I drive an XR6T and I haven't noticed any of these things. Holden must have a contract with drive.com.au (and friends) so they'll bag the Falcon. Its quite sad, and its not journalism.

LOL Go back in 2002 and the same was said about the VY. Dash reflections in the window seats to hard can't see the dials with the sun glare steering is all over the road.

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

For a real review of the VE Commodore, buy a copy of Australian Muscle Car magazine. They have written a totally unbiased review of the VE without falling for the VE lovefest that most other journos have fallen for. They avoided the Holden press conferences to form an unbiased review and did an excellent article that highlights the positives and negatives. They concluded that the VE only that hits the mark in the SS and SSV, and the 6 cylinder models fall way short of where they should be. Even went as far as to say the Alloytec sounds and feels like an XF taxi when revved.

But many could say that the only reason you see it fare is because they went against all but the 2 V8's. So basically more then half the range.
And my opinion is Go-Auto done the best review, As they got the cars last and only just finished up doing there testing, There were plenty of ups and downs but across the board it's was rated pretty good.


Does anyone remember the R8 that was pulled from bang for buck because they couldn't find replacement tyres? Or the GTS that sprung a hose?

[Stoney!]

You guys are absolutely hilarious, When the article claims that the fleet cars are almost on par, the comments start flying that "they spend **** loads of money yet can only come out on par.....

Yet when the next article comes out about the sports model far in Holdens favour, you guys are saying how disgraceful the article is, so ****en funny!!!!

I see nothing wrong with the conditions that these cars were tested in, considering when these cars are designed and tested, these are normally the conditions that they are subjected to.... and the conditions they should stand up to, as they said, these are the main roads between country towns, are we now saying that the average country fold are not allowed to have XR8's or SS's as their primary family cars?? or simply primary car.

I remember some time ago posting that a police officer told me he prefers to take out the SS over the XR6 or XR8 because the fords bottom out to much, yet you guys laughed at me for it.

The SS does look a bit different being higher, but its a fantastic idea, the amount of time i see people in expensive cars pulling out of driveways and scraping.... it would iritate me to the max.

Stoney!

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by grumpyoldb

: I am really amazed at some of the hysterical infantile comments over this report. Just because they preferred one car over the others that had specific failings that they didn't like, and you blokes rave on like it's WWIII. It's only a road test report ferchrisakes. Just because your brand didn't win, don't worry. You'll manage to find a report by the motoring correspondent of the Woop Woop Globe or some other esteemed publication whose views suit yours that will take the pain away. Unfortunately, that's the price of progress and I feel you should get used to it for the time being until maybe the Orion arrives, and then maybe it'll be different - it may have played catch-up. At the moment it's pretty obvious that the VE is a better car - as it damned well should be seeing it's several years younger and $1b has been spent making it - it'd want to be good. Grow up though please and at least be objective

Originally Posted by Stoney!

You guys are absolutely hilarious, When the article claims that the fleet cars are almost on par, the comments start flying that "they spend **** loads of money yet can only come out on par.....

Yet when the next article comes out about the sports model far in Holdens favour, you guys are saying how disgraceful the article is, so ****en funny!!!!

I see nothing wrong with the conditions that these cars were tested in, considering when these cars are designed and tested, these are normally the conditions that they are subjected to.... and the conditions they should stand up to, as they said, these are the main roads between country towns, are we now saying that the average country fold are not allowed to have XR8's or SS's as their primary family cars?? or simply primary car.

I remember some time ago posting that a police officer told me he prefers to take out the SS over the XR6 or XR8 because the fords bottom out to much, yet you guys laughed at me for it.

The SS does look a bit different being higher, but its a fantastic idea, the amount of time i see people in expensive cars pulling out of driveways and scraping.... it would iritate me to the max.

Stoney!

I think you guys should read the thread before you post.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by The Monty

I think you guys should read the thread before you post.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner..

If some of you even bother to read my post...this entire thread can be summed up in one short sentence...

We're not unhappy about the result...it was expected. We're unhappy about the way the results were concluded and I'm sure the Holden Crew would agree if it happened to them.





Boss V8 < LS 6.0
Barra I6 > Alloytech V6

[SSBUB]

Boss V8 < Ls1 also imo
Ford needs to do something with its 8's

[grumpyoldb]

Originally Posted by Bucket

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner..

If some of you even bother to read my post...this entire thread can be summed up in one short sentence...

We're not unhappy about the result...it was expected. We're unhappy about the way the results were concluded and I'm sure the Holden Crew would agree if it happened to them.

I know I'm getting old and stupid, but it seemed pretty straightforward to me. The 2 Falcons were damaged due to insufficient ground clearance and went home on a truck.... The Holden passed over exactly the same objects with no damage......
DESPITE the Falcons going home on a tilt-tray, they said that this didn't affect their opinions since they also thought it was unfortunate.....(read - they were embarrassed at having broken both of them).
They then concluded that despite the Falcons being good cars the Holden was better .....(as one would hope it should be, being a brand new design).
I know that's all very complicated and hard to understand but it seems pretty plain and simple to me. Also these claims from some that they have been paid/bribed etc is just childish nonsense. (and I would say the same whether it was a Holden or Ford supporter making the claim). Take the blinkers off and have a look in the real world.

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by grumpyoldb

The 2 Falcons were damaged due to insufficient ground clearance and went home on a truck.... The Holden passed over exactly the same objects with no damage......

I dont think thats quite true. Has anyone actually MEASURED the 100mm? Thats a big chunk of clearance. Looking at the vehicles front on, I doubt if the front spoilers are 100mm difference (which is where the XR6 copped it in the 'clay'). Maybe its just the underguts. Also...we also assume the plastic sump tray is the issue, would a metal tray actually have fared any better? We dont actually know that either. Or whether the VE's sump is plastic or metal. Or whether the VE actually passed over any such objects (though the 100mm clearance if its there would certainly help). Thinking a bit laterally I read it more as the XR's have insufficient protection for the sump (metal or plastic, shouldnt be exposed IMHO regardless if its 'outback rugged').

Like it or not, these are plastic cars, not classic cars (as some of the forum faithful will let us know loudly)

I can see the cockys now wondering whether to trade their Landcruisers for a VE.... maybe not

[Ruger]

i know i wouldnt buy a 'sports car' with 4x4 suspension the sports model should have a sports stance. if the country bumpkins dont like it buy the v8 mont

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

But many could say that the only reason you see it fare is because they went against all but the 2 V8's. So basically more then half the range.
And my opinion is Go-Auto done the best review, As they got the cars last and only just finished up doing there testing, There were plenty of ups and downs but across the board it's was rated pretty good.

In my opinion that is totally fair as the V6's are the biggest dissapointment in the VE range. They still have NVH and torque issues, and every road test brings up the same thing. They sound average, lack torque especially with the heavier VE body and they get a little rough when revved out. Fuel consumption is now the worst in class.

One quote stands out, Nissan and Mitsubishi deliver such refined and powerful V6 engines in this price range, and have been doing so for more than a decade. Refinement and driveability levels achieved by the VL in 1986.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by grumpyoldb

I know I'm getting old and stupid, but it seemed pretty straightforward to me. The 2 Falcons were damaged due to insufficient ground clearance and went home on a truck.... The Holden passed over exactly the same objects with no damage......
DESPITE the Falcons going home on a tilt-tray, they said that this didn't affect their opinions since they also thought it was unfortunate.....(read - they were embarrassed at having broken both of them).
They then concluded that despite the Falcons being good cars the Holden was better .....(as one would hope it should be, being a brand new design).
I know that's all very complicated and hard to understand but it seems pretty plain and simple to me. Also these claims from some that they have been paid/bribed etc is just childish nonsense. (and I would say the same whether it was a Holden or Ford supporter making the claim). Take the blinkers off and have a look in the real world.

Well, I'm not going to call you old and stupid as you have called yourself; however I will refute your claims that chequebook journalism doesn't occur.
I can prove it does, and the fact that Holden is such a big sponsor of drive.com.au should tip you off as well. Put simply, if drive were to bag the absolute crap out of the ve then Holden could cancel their advertising, and then drive will lose out on a major revenue stream. For this reason, drive choose their words wisely and depending on the cash involved, tend to favour their biggest sponsors. For this reason, there is little impartiality when it comes to articles in this publication. I'm not saying it occurs on all brands, but in the case of Holden, a massive customer of drive, it is occurring. The fact that there is also a dedicated VE section of the site alludes to looking after their customers too.

[Fordoldie]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

In my opinion that is totally fair as the V6's are the biggest dissapointment in the VE range. They still have NVH and torque issues, and every road test brings up the same thing. They sound average, lack torque especially with the heavier VE body and they get a little rough when revved out. Fuel consumption is now the worst in class.

One quote stands out, Nissan and Mitsubishi deliver such refined and powerful V6 engines in this price range, and have been doing so for more than a decade. Refinement and driveability levels achieved by the VL in 1986.

I went to a recent launch and everyone there was staggered at the improvement on the V6 VE models. Much better NVH (no eng whine or harshness) much better power delivery, and overall it is definately a fantastic car. Whether everyone is going to like it who cares?

As far as this thread goes
I agree with Stoney and grumpyoldb.
Absolutely embarrassment. I havent seen anyone bagging Ford, only praising it and rightly so. Its ok to defend your own but the defensive childish dribble along with silly accusations and comments from some make it hard for any outsider to take those people serious

[stevz]

Stoney, grumpyoldb and Fordoldie, you hit the nail on the head with your comments. _2:

ltd : :MrT_anim:

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by stevz

Stoney, grumpyoldb and Fordoldie, you hit the nail on the head with your comments. _2:

ltd : :MrT_anim:

What a surprise. Holden trolls. :MrT_anim: :

[troppo]

I went to a recent lunch and everyone there was staggered. At the improvement on the V6 VE models, much better NVH (no eng whine or harshness) much better power delivery, and overall it is definately. A fantastic car, whether everyone is going to like it, who cares?

As far as this thread goes
I agree with Stoney and grumpyoldb.
Absolutely embarrassment. I havent seen anyone bagging Ford, only praising it and rightly so. Its ok to defend your own but the defensive childish dribble along with silly accusations and comments from some make it hard for any outsider to take those people serious.

*Edited for speeling and grandma.

[DJM83]

What a joke

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by troppo

I went to a recent lunch and everyone there was staggered. At the improvement on the V6 VE models, much better NVH (no eng whine or harshness) much better power delivery, and overall it is definately. A fantastic car, whether everyone is going to like it, who cares?

As far as this thread goes
I agree with Stoney and grumpyoldb.
Absolutely embarrassment. I havent seen anyone bagging Ford, only praising it and rightly so. Its ok to defend your own but the defensive childish dribble along with silly accusations and comments from some make it hard for any outsider to take those people serious.

*Edited for speeling and grandma.

Well then you havent read all the posts...

Its a Fact: The VE V6 has Less Power and More weight than the Falcon Equivelent = Putting more stress on the engine and more noise as a product of that.

Its a Fact: The BOSS XR8 engine Is too heavy, underpowered and to top it off, in a heavy car (This has been stated quite a few times)

Its a Fact: That we have applauded Holden for making a great Car (or the best car they have made yet) and putting a good V8 in it (in particular the SS) And yes some of us like the styling while others find it boring, a copy of other designs and uninspiring and others, ugly. So what. Its an opinion.

It's a Fact: We only want a fair and thorough review.. Secondly, It's a little hard to see a full and propper conclusion when the Car has only been driven in the desert or damaged before a full review can be done (i would mean this to include, track tests, direct quarter-mile comparisons etc) In other words...fairly uninformed conclusions have been formed on both cars so far...stevz...i said both cars...
We live in a capitalist democratic nation, which unfortunatley means that everyone has a price including Journalists..its Plausible that the Editor (not necessarily the reviewers themselves) would exercise some form poetic license to keep business strong..they have to establish a balance. I'm sure this would be the case if Ford were advertising a stack on drive.com.au too..its indirect influence..



Next time you want to take the opportunity to try and make us all look like nothing but fanboys, read the entire thread first.

Stevz, i know you aint a Holden Troll but it feels like your a troll none the less.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What a surprise. Holden trolls. :MrT_anim: :

*Sigh* There are none so blind as those who will not see. :MrT_anim:

[INJECTED_250]

Who cares about ****er journos.... I mean they dont even have a real job yet every one listens to the crap they spill out.. Blar blar harsh this, to small that, carnt drive for **** this, hit a big pile of clay that , refined this ... .. I mean really just grab a few key words chuck them in a box and pull them out in any order u want and u could write a drive review..
THe Base model commodores look CRAP.. i mean CRAP... since when was ground clearance so high u could pull the transmission out without jacking it up been cool...
Tyres that miss the wheel arches so much u could stick youre head in the gap and look around for a while...
THe ss's on the other hand look pretty good and flog the XR8's there a good pice of gear
Give me the xr6t over them all with its "touchy steering and "small mirrors"... woops... becoming a drive journo.....

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Bucket

It's a little hard to see a full and propper conclusion when the Car has only been driven in the desert or damaged before a full review can be done (i would mean this to include, track tests, direct quarter-mile comparisons etc)..

From what I read in the article, they stated that they covered 2000km during the test before the breakdowns occured and that the dirt road testing consisted of only a small part of that. The way some people are making it out as if the entire test was carried out on dirt roads only suitable for landcruisers.
They also state that they had reached their verdict before the breakdowns occured and that the events had no bearing on the final decision.

Originally Posted by Bucket

I'm sure this would be the case if Ford were advertising a stack on drive.com.au too..its indirect influence.

But Ford DO advertise on drive. In fact there are Ford advertisements which seem to be strategically placed in most of the VE reviews.
I still stand by my views that these reviews are not results of chequebook journalism. Drive has had plenty of critisism for Holden in the past and they have also raved about Fords in the past. I don't seem to recall anyone claiming chequebook journalism when drive gave immense praise to Ford when the BA, Territory, Focus etc were launched or when the ZF auto was introduced etc.

I will say in all fairness, that the BA and BF range are extremely good cars, however they have now been surpassed by the VE. Plain and simple.
It just seems to me that some people cannot and will not accept this and are just using drive as a scapegoat to try and justify their narrow minded opinions.

[Bucket]

I'm still waiting for the race track verdicts though

Originally Posted by stevz

I will say in all fairness, that the BA and BF range are extremely good cars, however they have now been surpassed by the VE. Plain and simple.
It just seems to me that some people cannot and will not accept this and are just using drive as a scapegoat to try and justify their narrow minded opinions.

Well I aint one of 'em

I think a lot of people probably havent bothered reading the whole review..and that there view are probably tainted by that poor piece of video that a bent a few noses out and rightly so.
I think people have accepted it too..I just think they want to make sure that the Falcons still have credit given to them where it is due.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

In my opinion that is totally fair as the V6's are the biggest dissapointment in the VE range. They still have NVH and torque issues, and every road test brings up the same thing. They sound average, lack torque especially with the heavier VE body and they get a little rough when revved out. Fuel consumption is now the worst in class.

One quote stands out, Nissan and Mitsubishi deliver such refined and powerful V6 engines in this price range, and have been doing so for more than a decade. Refinement and driveability levels achieved by the VL in 1986.

They might not be to everyone liking but many on here have driven them and say they aren't as bad as they are made out to be, then there are some test that are done with praise towards the engine but they go un noticed. I will hire one soon and drive it up some massive hill.

Originally Posted by INJECTED_250

THe Base model commodores look CRAP.. i mean CRAP... since when was ground clearance so high u could pull the transmission out without jacking it up been cool...
Tyres that miss the wheel arches so much u could stick youre head in the gap and look around for a while...

You remind me of the guy that said i once caught a fish this big

[The Monty]

Its just funny that some of you guys are praising the height of the commodore, as its a fair bit higher than the falcon, but when the AU was released, every one had a whinge because it was too high compared to the commodore. Thats also my last post for this thread, as I am sick of trying to make young Holden fans see anyone elses point of view re; stevz. ( Not implied to you either slick, you research well before making posts).

[ltd]

Well said Monty.
These people who seem to have a fascination with the term "one eye"; one can't help but wonder if they spend too much time on the ol' one eye.
stevz=Oedipus

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by Fordoldie

Its ok to defend your own but the defensive childish dribble along with silly accusations and comments from some make it hard for any outsider to take those people serious

See said same thread on ls1.com.au.

Its WORSE.

[grumpyoldb]

Originally Posted by INJECTED_250

Who cares about ****er journos.... I mean they dont even have a real job yet every one listens to the crap they spill out.. Blar blar harsh this, to small that, carnt drive for **** this, hit a big pile of clay that , refined this ... .. I mean really just grab a few key words chuck them in a box and pull them out in any order u want and u could write a drive review..
THe Base model commodores look CRAP.. i mean CRAP... since when was ground clearance so high u could pull the transmission out without jacking it up been cool...
Tyres that miss the wheel arches so much u could stick youre head in the gap and look around for a while...
THe ss's on the other hand look pretty good and flog the XR8's there a good pice of gear
Give me the xr6t over them all with its "touchy steering and "small mirrors"... woops... becoming a drive journo.....

It's not hard to see that you obviously are not a journo....

[Fordoldie]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Its just funny that some of you guys are praising the height of the commodore, as its a fair bit higher than the falcon, but when the AU was released, every one had a whinge because it was too high compared to the commodore. Thats also my last post for this thread, as I am sick of trying to make young Holden fans see anyone elses point of view re; stevz. ( Not implied to you either slick, you research well before making posts).

I havent heard anyone praise the commodore height yet. In fact I doubt it is much higher at all - it just looks that way.
Could have happened to any of the cars and the same result would come back..... and if it didnt I would still question the journos' ability, especially that lot.
The funniest thing is the highest accolades for VE are coming from guys on this forum (in between the hissing and gnashing of teeth) with praise and glory words I havent seen any of the Holden fans use. Even ltd has added in praise where no-one else has. It's so farking hilarious reading this - someone should publish it. Oh hang on it is.....

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Fordoldie

I havent heard anyone praise the commodore height yet. In fact I doubt it is much higher at all - it just looks that way.
Could have happened to any of the cars and the same result would come back..... and if it didnt I would still question the journos' ability, especially that lot.
The funniest thing is the highest accolades for VE are coming from guys on this forum (in between the hissing and gnashing of teeth) with praise and glory words I havent seen any of the Holden fans use. Even ltd has added in praise where no-one else has. It's so farking hilarious reading this - someone should publish it. Oh hang on it is.....

So are you saying we should be bagging the VE? Oh wait..we can't do that here..its a Ford Forum. :

It seems like we cant put a foot right...Praise the VE...we're in trouble...Bag the VE..we upset the Trolls.

[INJECTED_250]

Originally Posted by grumpyoldb

It's not hard to see that you obviously are not a journo....

Thats right i can drive a car......

[Laminge]

I dont see many people here remaining on the forums for long if this continues........

[rushing on acid]

if the v6 motor is the same as the vz v6 then its a piece of crap that holden found in the yarra river ( across the road from the engine factory). they are not smooth they are not quiet they have no power and they sound like a bloody taxi when they try and rev hard!