Covid 19 -

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by zilo

Indian delta variant of Covid comes in via India.
Reduce travellers from india reduce infections. from India.

It's a really easy fix.


yeah yeah all those with indian girlfriends will say its racist...yawn

The Delta variant entered Australia via the American crew of a fedex plane. They infected their Australian limo driver, who was not vaccinated and didn't wear a mask.

How would stopping Indian nationals entering Australia change the outcome?

[zilo]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Not racist, but needs a fact check. Can delta infect non indians and/or come through destinations other than India? Please confirm.

No fact check needed...does Indian variant originate from India....YES
A flight from India brings which variant? The Delta variant.
Hope that clears it up.

I am all for stopping all flights but especially from India.

Originally Posted by Work Horse

The Delta variant entered Australia via the American crew of a fedex plane. They infected their Australian limo driver, who was not vaccinated and didn't wear a mask.[/B]

Two things...
(1) I am talking about passenger planes, for all we know that cargo plane had been to India that week...don't suppose you can provide the flight details?

(2) Can you prove that he did not wear a mask? Bet you can not?

Originally Posted by Work Horse

How would stopping Indian nationals entering Australia change the outcome?

Indian nationals are usually returning from....INDIA?
Where is the largest pool of Indian aka Delta Virus cases?...INDIA



Nothing against Indians, hey I love curry...but it is obvious...

[slowsnake]

I think that all the different bulls..t they feed us, us being the average man on the street, is all they got, their ammo is blank I think, but got to keep the natives from getting restless!...

It ain't working very well, in fact it makes it worse I think, if they tell the truth, which is "we don't know" then I would feel better placed to make my own decisions about Covid-19.....
Glad I'm 68 and not 18 years old, it must be soul destroying to be young and "green" about how the world works!


Cheers King Billy

[hawkgirl]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Good to hear the good people of regional NSW enforcing their own GTFO order though.

You betcha we do
Non locals beware











*soft banjo music.....

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by lumen8

I guess I am a bit pessimistic perhaps but I would like what you wrote to be the case.

Covid has personally cost me 40-50k in lost income... i didnt lose money like some who had expenses and not much coming in, so didnt go backwards, but wouldve had that amount more. Not a life changing number but wouldve been good to have it.

Everything from local/state border restrictions, worker shortages, and not being able to go abroad, contributed to it... im not on the side of staying closed for much longer.

I know a few brits and there were thousands of them on the streets this past weekend, the numbers are debatable but obviously it was a lot, i'll post a link, and they arent restricted as much as us regarding travel but still are beginning to not tolerate that as well as other restrictions.

https://twitter.com/NewtonClarkeUK/s...77488399060992

My point was the politicians here do not seem to be feeling the same amount of pressure and will drag their heels if not pressured. And yes I can see theyve had to address some of the questions theyve been avoiding, perhaps chris kenny of sky helped get the ball rolling with that when he challenged her high priestess of SA, also known as the nutty professor on sky news. (dont touch that ball)

how come you aren't sprouting your conspiracy theory's here like YB and PB?

[lumen8]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

how come you aren't sprouting your conspiracy theory's here like YB and PB?

Youre still upset that people abroad are shown our borders are closed when many of them are going back to normality?

Tell you what it doesnt take me to tell people, the word has spread with or without me.

You just said you agreed with the following post (which isnt mine)...


"Everyone that knows me is aware that I'm an ardent patriot, but the issues with lockdowns, border closures and international travel bans are a national disgrace.

When are these people going to realize that the virus cannot be defeated by exclusions? It's never going to go away. Herd immunity is the only answer. Relax all the restrictions on the general public and let the piece fall where they may. Keep looking after those in high risk categories and let nature take its course. I'm not even against vaccines. They play a part. I'm just a bit reluctant with these ones because nobody knows the long term side effects. I take a flu vaccine every year. I've never heard of someone dying because of them though....

The problem with our politicians and health bodies is that they are so afraid of allowing even one person to die that they are willing to impose draconian measures on the rest. It doesn't seem to matter that people died of the flu by the thousands every year before this. No one gave a **** about that apparently. There was no push to try to eradicate influenza....

As far as I'm concerned, let the weak die and the strong survive. That's how nature works. That's how species evolve and survive. If we try to protect ourselves from every little thing with pills and jabs, how much stronger are we going to get? It's like the hypochondriac kid afraid of germs always getting sick and the normal kid playing in the dirt who never does, on a global scale..."



You wont espouse those views here either yet apparently you now agree with them?

But when I say something similar about the borders you call it conspiracy?

Youre a bit of a flip flopper lately trev, like questioning if the 900+ dead died of covid or with it a few pages back... you know what they say about glass houses and all.

And yes I dont think what 547 wrote there is all that wrong. Id not espouse the 'let the weak' die part though, you know ive said a long time ago do everything to protect the vulnerable... including treatments, which are now starting to have evidence of working, but our friendly government has banned them and will jail doctors who prescribe them.

In fact this FOX journalist was fired in the US for going rogue...

https://www.********.com/video/rvccR4Tg6fRS/

I also suspect that youtube would ban that video which is why she put it up on ********.

[Trevor 57]

No worries Monty's little boy

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by zilo

No fact check needed...does Indian variant originate from India....YES
A flight from India brings which variant? The Delta variant.
Hope that clears it up.

I am all for stopping all flights but especially from India.


Two things...
(1) I am talking about passenger planes, for all we know that cargo plane had been to India that week...don't suppose you can provide the flight details?

(2) Can you prove that he did not wear a mask? Bet you can not?



Indian nationals are usually returning from....INDIA?
Where is the largest pool of Indian aka Delta Virus cases?...INDIA



Nothing against Indians, hey I love curry...but it is obvious...

98.3% of new cases in the UK are the Delta variant. Work that into you thoughts

https://www.newscientist.com/article...ve-travellers/

[tweeked]

I am sensing a big swing in public opinion. We were the envy of the world in the early stages. But now as more news comes out showing other countries starting to return to normal, accepting flu like death rates, stopping counting cases, our public will suddenly want the same. They will not want to live in the shadow of the next lockdown anymore, too scared to book a holiday in our own backyard. We risk being an isolated backwater. By the odds, 20-30ish deaths if everyone in the country got AZ, less using our limited Pfizer stocks. 20 times that will die on the roads before Xmas. Do it now.

Trying to stop every single death is not good for us. It is why motorcycles are legal, why you can smoke a cigarette, eat McDonalds, why parachuting, rock climbing, snorkelling in shark territory are allowed. I was disappointed with our feds road map. Make it clear, @ 70% we open up. Every older person will have had the opportunity to vaccinate. Fully immunised should have no restrictions. Make it clear what and when.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by tweeked

98.3% of new cases in the UK are the Delta variant. Work that into you thoughts

98.3% of new cases in the Uk, the Indian Delta variant, originated from India.

Is that what you are trying to say?

From your own link....

European Union’s covid-19 vaccine certification scheme doesn’t approve entry for people who have had a version of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine manufactured in India



That is funny....


.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by zilo

98.3% of new cases in the Uk, the Indian Delta variant, originated from India.

Is that what you are trying to say?

From your own link....

European Union’s covid-19 vaccine certification scheme doesn’t approve entry for people who have had a version of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine manufactured in India



That is funny....

You just make sure that empty barn door is closed.

Some of us want to hide scared on a little island, others are willing to re-join the world.

[Citroënbender]

The majority of “Indians” I know are not recently from India. Many are English citizens and all except one are vaccinated.

Yet they still regard themselves as Indian by culture and descent. Despite some misgivings about the methodology and medicines, they have observed the rules of lockdowns, masks, vaccines etc on the basis that it was a team effort they were part of. Can’t fault it.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by tweeked

You just make sure that empty barn door is closed.

Some of us want to hide scared on a little island, others are willing to re-join the world.

Cowardice is not proportional to closing borders to third world countries with massive overpopulation, poor hygiene and no prospect of abating a virus which, allowed to mutate, repeatedly is a threat to current vaccines.

Bravery is not proportional to politically correct negligence either.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

The majority of “Indians” I know are not recently from India. Many are English citizens and all except one are vaccinated.

Yet they still regard themselves as Indian by culture and descent. Despite some misgivings about the methodology and medicines, they have observed the rules of lockdowns, masks, vaccines etc on the basis that it was a team effort they were part of. Can’t fault it.

No one suggests that those Indians already in Australia are lesser people.

Any aussie who chose to fly to India in the last 12 months should not expect to be given a blank pass to come back..... just so happens most are Indians.

[slowsnake]

Everyone has this assumption that the corona virus only affects us humans, or mammals etc!
It doesn't, that plane sitting on the tarmac at Delhi Airport waiting to leave for maybe Sydney Australia is a big magnetic surface for all types of virii, is there such a word?
So if the plane is sitting in a place full of corona virus is it somehow "immune" from carrying the corona virus on its surfaces!

Its an airborne virus, but they test the passengers and crew, not the outer surfaces of the plane, or even the wheel wells, at 37,000 feet that virus is dormant because of the extreme cold, imagine flying into Sydney airport and dropping the landing gear, imagine all this now not dormant virus dropping all over Sydney's suburbs!

Sounds crazy eh.....or does it!


Cheers King Billy

[russellw]

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT July 4th 2021.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

19 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR is 2.959%.

9 cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 0.945% and active cases 32.

The UK had a lower 23,818 cases yesterday and lower 15 deaths.

A much lower 8,017 new cases in the USA yesterday and lower 96 deaths sees CMR at 1.796%.

Other notable points: (weekend reporting)
Asia passes 800k deaths;

Fiji (522)
Vietnam (922);
Myanmar (2,318) - the previous high on 10/10/20;
Kazakhstan (3,003); and
Cuba (3,519)

... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

No countries move above the 90th percentile for the 10 day period while no countries drop below.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by zilo

Indian delta variant of Covid comes in via India.
Reduce travellers from india reduce infections. from India.

It's a really easy fix.


yeah yeah all those with indian girlfriends will say its racist...yawn

Ok got you now, you are definately not trying to be supercilious and argumentative.

This is your big plan to save Australia from Covid!

You write up the proposal for government to follow and I will try to sercure this to make your plan viable!

[russellw]

I think we are well at the 'acceptable' level of cases and mortality numbers in our current state but it is difficult to extrapolate what would happen in the event that we tried to return to 'normal' with no lockdowns, international travel reasonably unrestricted etc, etc.

Let's postulate that: (1) 90% of the adult population get vaccinated; (2) those vaccines are completely effective; and (3) we don't get a more deadly strain of the virus. Thus only 10% of the adult population (1.8M people) would be at risk of getting infected at some point in time:

- at our current CMR those cases would result in 53,300 deaths;
- at the current global CMR those cases would result in 39,000 deaths;
- at our 'no aged care cases' CMR those 2.5M cases would result in 9,000 deaths.

Are they 'acceptable' levels?

Of course, that's a worst case scenario because there is no certainty in saying that those 1.8M people would all get infected eventually but then if we optimistically say that only 10% of them get infected do the revised numbers make any better reading?

- at our current CMR those cases would result in 5,300 deaths;
- at the current global CMR those cases would result in 3,900 deaths;
- at our 'no aged care cases' CMR those 2.5M cases would result in 900 deaths.

On the plus side, that latter number is close to what we've had in the last 18 months so perhaps that is a pill we can swallow in order to have a new 'normal'?

To my mind, the danger of that approach is the more pessimistic outlook.

What if we got a variant like Delta+ that was more infectious and against which the existing vaccines (except ironically AZ) aren't very effective? That would result in higher case numbers over a shorter time period and raise the question about the health care system coping and likely lead to more infections and higher mortality rates.

It's a vexed question but I suspect we'll take a pre-cautious approach until we do have higher vaccination levels and some purpose built quarantine facilities and I don't have any real issue with that approach.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by russellw

I think we are well at the 'acceptable' level of cases and mortality numbers in our current state but it is difficult to extrapolate what would happen in the event that we tried to return to 'normal' with no lockdowns, international travel reasonably unrestricted etc, etc.

Let's postulate that: (1) 90% of the adult population get vaccinated; (2) those vaccines are completely effective; and (3) we don't get a more deadly strain of the virus. Thus only 10% of the adult population (1.8M people) would be at risk of getting infected at some point in time:

- at our current CMR those cases would result in 53,300 deaths;
- at the current global CMR those cases would result in 39,000 deaths;
- at our 'no aged care cases' CMR those 2.5M cases would result in 9,000 deaths.

Are they 'acceptable' levels?

Of course, that's a worst case scenario because there is no certainty in saying that those 1.8M people would all get infected eventually but then if we optimistically say that only 10% of them get infected do the revised numbers make any better reading?

- at our current CMR those cases would result in 5,300 deaths;
- at the current global CMR those cases would result in 3,900 deaths;
- at our 'no aged care cases' CMR those 2.5M cases would result in 900 deaths.

On the plus side, that latter number is close to what we've had in the last 18 months so perhaps that is a pill we can swallow in order to have a new 'normal'?

To my mind, the danger of that approach is the more pessimistic outlook.

What if we got a variant like Delta+ that was more infectious and against which the existing vaccines (except ironically AZ) aren't very effective? That would result in higher case numbers over a shorter time period and raise the question about the health care system coping and likely lead to more infections and higher mortality rates.

It's a vexed question but I suspect we'll take a pre-cautious approach until we do have higher vaccination levels and some purpose built quarantine facilities and I don't have any real issue with that approach.

I wonder what those 10% who don't (refuse to) get vaccinated would think? Lots of those don't believe and want to open up too.

In my world they had exercised their right to back their immune system, to not trust doctors and science, but trust their google searching. But they do not have a right to change my life for the foreseeable future.

There is a way out, I don't stop people smoking..............I wish them luck and good health! But it is their choice Russ!

[FairmontGS]

90% is pie in the sky thinking though. Even Aunty Glad is only aiming for 80% of the GSS' adult population and she knows that's a stretch. The future still looks gloomy to me unfortunately.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by tweeked

I wonder what those 10% who don't (refuse to) get vaccinated would think? Lots of those don't believe and want to open up too.



In my world they had exercised their right to back their immune system, to not trust doctors and science, but trust their google searching. But they do not have a right to change my life for the foreseeable future.



There is a way out, I don't stop people smoking..............I wish them luck and good health! But it is their choice Russ!

What if there are more than 10%? What if there are more anti / hesitant vaxxers than the threshold that will be set to lift restrictions interesting times ahead.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by russellw

I think we are well at the 'acceptable' level of cases and mortality numbers in our current state but it is difficult to extrapolate what would happen in the event that we tried to return to 'normal' with no lockdowns, international travel reasonably unrestricted etc, etc.

Let's postulate that: (1) 90% of the adult population get vaccinated; (2) those vaccines are completely effective; and (3) we don't get a more deadly strain of the virus. Thus only 10% of the adult population (1.8M people) would be at risk of getting infected at some point in time:

- at our current CMR those cases would result in 53,300 deaths;
- at the current global CMR those cases would result in 39,000 deaths;
- at our 'no aged care cases' CMR those 2.5M cases would result in 9,000 deaths.

Are they 'acceptable' levels?

Of course, that's a worst case scenario because there is no certainty in saying that those 1.8M people would all get infected eventually but then if we optimistically say that only 10% of them get infected do the revised numbers make any better reading?

- at our current CMR those cases would result in 5,300 deaths;
- at the current global CMR those cases would result in 3,900 deaths;
- at our 'no aged care cases' CMR those 2.5M cases would result in 900 deaths.

On the plus side, that latter number is close to what we've had in the last 18 months so perhaps that is a pill we can swallow in order to have a new 'normal'?

To my mind, the danger of that approach is the more pessimistic outlook.

What if we got a variant like Delta+ that was more infectious and against which the existing vaccines (except ironically AZ) aren't very effective? That would result in higher case numbers over a shorter time period and raise the question about the health care system coping and likely lead to more infections and higher mortality rates.

It's a vexed question but I suspect we'll take a pre-cautious approach until we do have higher vaccination levels and some purpose built quarantine facilities and I don't have any real issue with that approach.

Out of curiosity Russ, if said unvaccinated 10% of the population for the purpose of the experiment, consisted 100% of people under the age of 40 or 50, on current CMR based on Australian Data what would be the projected fatalities?

Originally Posted by tweeked

I wonder what those 10% who don't (refuse to) get vaccinated would think? Lots of those don't believe and want to open up too.

In my world they had exercised their right to back their immune system, to not trust doctors and science, but trust their google searching. But they do not have a right to change my life for the foreseeable future.

There is a way out, I don't stop people smoking..............I wish them luck and good health! But it is their choice Russ!

I don’t consider myself anti-vax, I’m in a position where with a young family I consider the unknowns in this situation, being long term safety data of either AZ, Pfizer, ect v the Covid situation where at my age and physical condition as feel confident my immune system will be beyond capable the statistics tell me it will.

For example if tomorrow a therapeutic was signed off as a preventative I’d be first at the chemist door in the morning, what’s the difference? I can stop taking one.

If that ends up restricting my international travel until things settle down then so be it.

I know some on here consider this a selfish position, each to there own I don’t plan on making a debate of it to change anyone’s mind.

[T3rminator]

Would be also interesting to know the percentage of population who can't get jabbed due to medical reasons. Those are the ones who will cop it through no choice of their own.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by tweeked

I am sensing a big swing in public opinion. We were the envy of the world in the early stages. But now as more news comes out showing other countries starting to return to normal, accepting flu like death rates, stopping counting cases, our public will suddenly want the same. They will not want to live in the shadow of the next lockdown anymore, too scared to book a holiday in our own backyard. We risk being an isolated backwater. By the odds, 20-30ish deaths if everyone in the country got AZ, less using our limited Pfizer stocks. 20 times that will die on the roads before Xmas. Do it now.

Trying to stop every single death is not good for us. It is why motorcycles are legal, why you can smoke a cigarette, eat McDonalds, why parachuting, rock climbing, snorkelling in shark territory are allowed. I was disappointed with our feds road map. Make it clear, @ 70% we open up. Every older person will have had the opportunity to vaccinate. Fully immunised should have no restrictions. Make it clear what and when.

The general public of Australia is getting sick of lockdowns, when covid19 first appeared on our door step in early 2020, the big fear from our political masters was hospitals being overran with too many patients not being abled to be treated properly with so many deaths predicted as we were not prepared for this pandemic.
Unfortunately Victoria was the only state that had high number of deaths through mismanagement which has been corrected from lessons learned.
Does Australia need internal border restrictions every time an outbreak occurs? No is my answer as it has been proven with previous outbreaks contact tracing is working and our hospital system is adequately coping with the few cases of people being admitted.
Covid19 will never be eradicated as it is here to stay, quicker we vaccinate the quicker we return to normality.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

90% is pie in the sky thinking though. Even Aunty Glad is only aiming for 80% of the GSS' adult population and she knows that's a stretch. The future still looks gloomy to me unfortunately.

It has to get to the point where everyone who wants the jab has had the option to get the 2 and the gloves are off, we cant stay this way for ever and it may take boosters etc ongoing but I cant see any other option.

Species adapt or die.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

The general public of Australia is getting sick of lockdowns, when covid19 first appeared on our door step in early 2020, the big fear from our political masters was hospitals being overran with too many patients not being abled to be treated properly with so many deaths predicted as we were not prepared for this pandemic.
Unfortunately Victoria was the only state that had high number of deaths through mismanagement which has been corrected from lessons learned.
Does Australia need internal border restrictions every time an outbreak occurs? No is my answer as it has been proven with previous outbreaks contact tracing is working and our hospital system is adequately coping with the few cases of people being admitted.
Covid19 will never be eradicated as it is here to stay, quicker we vaccinate the quicker we return to normality.

We seem to keep criticising the things that has actually kept the community safe, deaths low, and allowed us to live relatively freely.

Of the countries which did not impose strong preventative controls, borders and snap lock downs when needed, which one would you say has managed the pandemic well and had an acceptable number of deaths?

Have hospitals not been over runed because we have acted swiftly and strongly?

Agree on the vaccination, but until then, keep doing what has kept us being a "success". We are only questioning our own "success" now due to the botched vaccine roll out. IMHO.

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Sounds crazy eh.....or does it!

Cheers King Billy

YEP!! But I enjoy reading your perspective so keep em coming.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Would be also interesting to know the percentage of population who can't get jabbed due to medical reasons. Those are the ones who will cop it through no choice of their own.

True, never thought of that. What will they do when international travel resumes and the carriers and countries require proof of vaccination?

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

True, never thought of that. What will they do when international travel resumes and the carriers and countries require proof of vaccination?

I would guess they would have some sort of exemption on their "passport". They would need to take a calculated risk when travelling.

So far I only know of one person who is in this category, my 90 odd year old neighbour. She ain't scared though, I see her dragging her trolley bag to the local shops all the time.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

True, never thought of that. What will they do when international travel resumes and the carriers and countries require proof of vaccination?

not be allowed on the plane I'd say.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

not be allowed on the plane I'd say.

I hope that's not the case for genuine people, however I assume any type of exemption will be exploited by the anti-vaxers.

Can an alternative vaccination medium be used I wonder? I recall that they use egg proteins to help deliver some vaccinations and that if you are allergic to eggs that could be a cause to being intolerant to getting that vaccination.

Can an alternate type of vaccination be made for those people I wonder?

Found this:

COVID-19 vaccines and allergy
Additional precautions are recommended for individuals with possible allergic reactions to a previous dose of a COVID-19 vaccine; allergic reactions to ingredients in the COVID-19 vaccine to be administered (including PEG in Comirnaty™ and Polysorbate 80 in COVID-19 AstraZeneca®); prior anaphylactic reactions to other vaccines or medications where PEG or Polysorbate 80 may have been the cause; or a known systemic mast cell activation disorder with raised mast cell tryptase that has required treatment.

In these instances a specialist review by an immunology/allergy/vaccination specialist to undertake a risk/benefit assessment to assess suitability for vaccination should be undertaken.

For all other allergies, including those with a history of anaphylaxis to food, drugs, venom or latex, it is recommended a routine observation period of 15 minutes following COVID-19 vaccination is observed.

https://mvec.mcri.edu.au/references/...iAAEgKyePD_BwE