Covid 19 -

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Metdevil

Wait, you saw that tweet as a reason to think that it's not as bad as people say it is?
2017 Flu figures: 233,000 reported cases, 745 dead. 0.319% of cases resulted in death.
2020/21 Covid figures: 31,000 cases, 940 dead. 2.993% of cases resulted in death.

Covid mortality is more than 9 times higher than 2017's flu figures.

Its this, plus the inability for them to understand that using this as a rationale to open everything up is so fundamentally flawed. If you do you will go from 300 cases a day nationally to 10000 plus cases a day in weeks. Then @ just 1% morbidity we will be at 100 deaths a day a few weeks after that.

The only answer we have right now is getting vaccinated.

Screw the advertising saying do it for everyone else. That wont work here because our population don't care about others. As Paul Keating said something like, "when in doubt, back self interest, at least you know that will be trying."

Put an add up now, "After opening up, we will have 10000 cases a day. Those that are vaccinated will most likely catch it, and will most likely have symptoms like a cold. Vaccination is no good after you catch covid. Those that aren't vaccinated before catching it, well 1% will die. Who do you want to be?"

[Trevor 57]

how do those figures compare to road fatalities Australia wide?

Am I more likely to die from:

1. COVID
2. Flu
3. Road accident

[Metdevil]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

how do those figures compare to road fatalities Australia wide?

Am I more likely to die from:

1. COVID
2. Flu
3. Road accident

I'm sure that if road accidents were contagious, I would probably jump onto the 'wear your seat belt' buzz more than I currently do. 👍

Originally Posted by tweeked

Its this, plus the inability for them to understand that using this as a rationale to open everything up is so fundamentally flawed. If you do you will go from 300 cases a day nationally to 10000 plus cases a day in weeks. Then @ just 1% morbidity we will be at 100 deaths a day a few weeks after that.

The only answer we have right now is getting vaccinated.

Screw the advertising saying do it for everyone else. That wont work here because our population don't care about others. As Paul Keating said something like, "when in doubt, back self interest, at least you know that will be trying."

Put an add up now, "After opening up, we will have 10000 cases a day. Those that are vaccinated will most likely catch it, and will most likely have symptoms like a cold. Vaccination is no good after you catch covid. Those that aren't vaccinated before catching it, well 1% will die. Who do you want to be?"

Children under 16 would just be collateral, I guess. Sorry kids, we appreciate your sacrifice.

[shedcoupe]

Just got jab 2.
Now I can get infected and infectious without a care ;-)

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

how do those figures compare to road fatalities Australia wide?

Am I more likely to die from:

1. COVID
2. Flu
3. Road accident

It's pretty simple really.

1. COVID (in Australia) has an adult mortality rate of 5.22 per 100k of adult population.

2. Influenza in Australia during a bad year like 2019 has a mortality rate of 4.139 per 100k but is more normally about 1.68 per 100k and has been just about zero the last 18 months.

3. As a driver, the road death mortality rate in 2020 was 3.0/100k and for all vehicle occupants 4.044/100k although it is worse if we include pedestrians, cyclists and motorbike riders.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by russellw

It's pretty simple really.

1. COVID (in Australia) has an adult mortality rate of 5.22 per 100k of adult population.

2. Influenza in Australia during a bad year like 2019 has a mortality rate of 4.139 per 100k but is more normally about 1.68 per 100k and has been just about zero the last 18 months.

3. As a driver, the road death mortality rate in 2020 was 3.0/100k and for all vehicle occupants 4.044/100k although it is worse if we include pedestrians, cyclists and motorbike riders.

And the argument that the mortality rate for COVID is so low, there's no justification for continued control measures (such as restrictions and lockdowns) would be like saying that because the mortality rate for driving a car is so low we might as well well not make it a legal requirement to wear a seat belt.

One does not necessarily justify the other.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by russellw

It's pretty simple really.

3. As a driver, the road death mortality rate in 2020 was 3.0/100k and for all vehicle occupants 4.044/100k although it is worse if we include pedestrians, cyclists and motorbike riders.

Simple you say, but did they die with road accident or from road accident?

Big differance and without internet trolls having access to every autopsy how do we know we are not being lied to?






See what I did there?

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

how do those figures compare to road fatalities Australia wide?

Am I more likely to die from:

1. COVID
2. Flu
3. Road accident

Two out of those three don't collapse the hospital system.

[tweeked]

Imagine how low the road toll would be if we only allow essential road traffic, made sure no vehicles came within 1.5 meters of each other at all times, and only allowed 1 person from each house in a car at one time, and didnt allow any car to go more that 5 km from home!!!

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Imagine how low the road toll would be if we only allow essential road traffic, made sure no vehicles came within 1.5 meters of each other at all times, and only allowed 1 person from each house in a car at one time, and didnt allow any car to go more that 5 km from home!!!

Stop giving them ideas!!

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Imagine how low the road toll would be if we only allow essential road traffic, made sure no vehicles came within 1.5 meters of each other at all times, and only allowed 1 person from each house in a car at one time, and didnt allow any car to go more that 5 km from home!!!

Didn't vic have zero road toll during the lock down of wave 2?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Imagine how low the road toll would be if we only allow essential road traffic, made sure no vehicles came within 1.5 meters of each other at all times, and only allowed 1 person from each house in a car at one time, and didnt allow any car to go more that 5 km from home!!!

I'll copy and paste this when I do the census, sorry Workhorse.

[T3rminator]

Out of curiosity, has the flu ever killed 700+ aged care residents in the space of a couple of months within one small jurisdiction?

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Out of curiosity, has the flu ever killed 700+ aged care residents in the space of a couple of months within one small jurisdiction?

Clutching at Straws, you are.

And Lung viruses in general kill more around Aust, (so far), than any other cause.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Burnout

Clutching at Straws, you are.

And Lung viruses in general kill more around Aust, (so far), than any other cause.

Was a simple question. Was that a yes or no? Honest question. Have we had a flu (or any other disease) that swept across a sector, and killed 700 odd in a very short period and in a small jurisdiction?

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

There are now outbreaks in Cairns and now Armidale and Tamworth.

I've been to those places numerous times and there is zero pollution there. Compared to the rest of the world OZ does not have a pollution problem.

Have you tried emailing the world leaders to tell them that you have the answer?

One person is all it takes to leave a hotspot and just travel Willy nilly as a spreader, wether in Orange or Cairns, I've flown into smog in Sydney so thick that only Centrpoint Tower was visible!
You get pollution standing on any street corner in peak hour traffic, where do people think it all goes to!....besides your lungs, it hangs around as you drive away to pollute elsewhere, not talking India or China, but try Port Kembla Steelworks on a windless day or any coal fired Power Station in any location, it's all pollution, and its from burning fossil fuels!
And it's killing us, slowly but surely one by one!



Cheers Billy

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Was a simple question. Was that a yes or no? Honest question. Have we had a flu (or any other disease) that swept across a sector, and killed 700 odd in a very short period and in a small jurisdiction?

Not how I read your question -
Anyway Spanish Flu, happily disposed of around 500mill people over a couple of years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

how do those figures compare to road fatalities Australia wide?

Am I more likely to die from:

1. COVID
2. Flu
3. Road accident

Ya forgot one? Attaching arms to bears, that's pretty dangerous



Cheers Billy, just joking, this thread needs it too

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

One person is all it takes to leave a hotspot and just travel Willy nilly as a spreader, wether in Orange or Cairns, I've flown into smog in Sydney so thick that only Centrpoint Tower was visible!
You get pollution standing on any street corner in peak hour traffic, where do people think it all goes to!....besides your lungs, it hangs around as you drive away to pollute elsewhere, not talking India or China, but try Port Kembla Steelworks on a windless day or any coal fired Power Station in any location, it's all pollution, and its from burning fossil fuels!
And it's killing us, slowly but surely one by one!

We weren't talking about how many people it took to spread it. Your point was ....

Originally Posted by slowsnake

I still believe this virus is more intensively concentrated on any area here or overseas, where there is a rise in ground level pollution,

Which has nothing to do with Cairns or Tamworth that I mentioned.

And going by your theory Pt Kembla, along with living near any Coal Fired power station, should all be hot spots?

Seriously?

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

There are now outbreaks in Cairns and now Armidale and Tamworth.

I've been to those places numerous times and there is zero pollution there. Compared to the rest of the world OZ does not have a pollution problem.

Interesting coincidence, today on the Internet news: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-...inds/100357436
Mind you, winter pollution in the “bowl” of Launceston is pretty awful, too.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Burnout

Not how I read your question -
Anyway Spanish Flu, happily disposed of around 500mill people over a couple of years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

Thanks. So pretty serious then. Not just like an ordinary flu. What did we do during spanish flu?

[BA-XT]

I usually dont get into covid debates, but this statistic threw me. These are the TOTAL deaths for america for each year from 2015 with the differential from the previous year.

2015 - 2,712,630

2016 - 2,744,248. +31,618

2017 - 2,813,503. +69,255

2018 - 2,839,205. -25,702

2019 - 2,854,838. +15,633

2020 - 3,358,814. +503,976

I’m tired and maths isnt a strong point of mine but last year that was a massive massive jump in total deaths. Also seeing doctors and nurses pleading with people to get the jab for something that is now entirely preventable is just so sad.

[shedcoupe]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

And (pollution is) killing us, slowly but surely one by one!
Cheers Billy

Except it isn’t. Highly industrialised countries have higher life expectancies as well as higher exposure to poxy chemicals.
It’s a paradox. There’s many folk dying young on a diet of organic veges in poor countries.

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Thanks. So pretty serious then. Not just like an ordinary flu. What did we do during spanish flu?



image

Wore masks and died in droves. That's what happened.
My old man was born in 1903, he told us stories of the times. People in country towns & on farms burying people in back yards.
Covered carts collecting bodies in cities.


Sent from my SM-A305YN using Tapatalk

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

We weren't talking about how many people it took to spread it. Your point was ....Which has nothing to do with Cairns or Tamworth that I mentioned.

And going by your theory Pt Kembla, along with living near any Coal Fired power station, should all be hot spots?

Seriously?

Not really, you need to work out how it travels?...there is a common denominator yet to be worked out, I'm no scientist and neither are you or anyone else on this thread, we are just throwing opinions around, but sadly some opinions get more forum support than others, that's OK, it's keeping the thread alive, it's not a courtroom



Cheers Juror Slowsnake

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Burnout

Wore masks and died in droves. That's what happened.
My old man was born in 1903, he told us stories of the times. People in country towns & on farms burying people in back yards.
Covered carts collecting bodies in cities.


Sent from my SM-A305YN using Tapatalk

15,000 deaths here. Yeh, massive carnage across the world, but I'm going to bet the response was a lot slower, and PPE and cleaning technology wasn't as good. Coupled with an ongoing world war in Europe.

Anyway, recent discussions here were on questioning the mortality rate and seriousness of Covid. So apart from Spanish flu, there hasn't been a specific disease that has caused so much carnage in such a short period of time?

[cheap]

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/he...latest-release

For those interested in statistics.

[oldel]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

So apart from Spanish flu, there hasn't been a specific disease that has caused so much carnage in such a short period of time?

No, here there hasn't*. Most of the playbook they used in WA was straight from how they handled spanish flu here, including quarantine, masks and banning anyone leaving Perth (they had road blocks back then too).

Despite attempts to contain the disease, it eventually entered the civilian population. Estimates put the death toll in Australia at about 12,000. Western Australia fared better than the more populous eastern states but even so 638 people are known to have died from it here. A free inoculation in W.A. was available and health authorities administered almost 95,000 doses of vaccine

(The spanish flu arrived here after the war BTW, not during it).

People have been studying the spanish flu for a long time, including knowing how well let it rip, herd immunity vs lock downs work. The latter works better BTW ;-)

*of course there's been SARs and others in non western countries, but nothing major in Aus, USA or europe since the spanish flu.
SARs is worse than the flu because it can be airborne as we took alomst a year to figure out! Droplets, surfaces etc that the flu spreads with is lower risk or more controllable.

E: The worst thing about the spanish flu is it somehow used your health against you. It was the younger, more fitter people more likely to die from it!
second worse thing was that no one knew how to make a proper flu vaccine back then so NFI what the hell they were taking! But they rolled up for WA and took it
Some talk about that 'vaccine' here: https://www.mdpi.com/2414-6366/3/1/1...almed-03-00017

[zilo]

You guys are missing the bigger picture.

It's not how many DIE from each cause...but the impacts.

A road fatality statistics are dwarfed by the number of drivers/passengers/peds who end up in a wheelchair.

The number of people with organs compromised for life after Covid is huge.

The flu...dunno...



Just sayin'...kinda like...sorta..kinda like...

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by oldel

No, here there hasn't*. Most of the playbook they used in WA was straight from how they handled spanish flu here, including quarantine, masks and banning anyone leaving Perth (they had road blocks back then too).



(The spanish flu arrived here after the war BTW, not during it).

People have been studying the spanish flu for a long time, including knowing how well let it rip, herd immunity vs lock downs work. The latter works better BTW ;-)

*of course there's been SARs and others in non western countries, but nothing major in Aus, USA or europe since the spanish flu.
SARs is worse than the flu because it can be airborne as we took alomst a year to figure out! Droplets, surfaces etc that the flu spreads with is lower risk or more controllable.

E: The worst thing about the spanish flu is it somehow used your health against you. It was the younger, more fitter people more likely to die from it!
second worse thing was that no one knew how to make a proper flu vaccine back then so NFI what the hell they were taking! But they rolled up for WA and took it
Some talk about that 'vaccine' here: https://www.mdpi.com/2414-6366/3/1/1...almed-03-00017

Well my research from over a year ago stated that the 1889 Russian flu was a corona virus, and again Russia was decimated by Russian flu in 1977,
Maybe we have not been ascribing the right names to the right or same illnesses!


Cheers Billy