AFF Weight Gain/Loss Program

[MWTB]

Thanks mate! I already train a few mates, I've noticed them getting bigger and stronger through advice I've given and diets I've written for them and it feels great. I'm mainly doing the course for my own knowledge but I am also looking to study Nutrition and Dietetics so hopefully I can work as a PT while studying

[DJR David]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Hmm, well Ive just happened across this thread so Ill to pass on some brain knowledge.

Firstly, Ive seen 3 recent docos on BBC's Horizon program which were amazing. They show that intensity of exercise is FAR more important than quantity. If you are into downloading TV shows track down:

""BBC Horizon The Truth About Exercise" - blew my mind
"BBC Horizon The Truth About Fat"
"BBC Horizon Eat, Fast and Live Longer"

My general thoughts - treadmills are an utter waste of time.
Skipping rope is awesome
Eliminate as much soft drink as u can from your eatings
Stop eating so much, we eat too much these days, it takes discipline.

5 min of intense exercise is more valuable than an hour of moderate/mild.

AFter seeing these 3 docos above Ive lost 3 stubborn kg from just a bit of high intensity exercise and more disciplined eating. Its only taken a few weeks and hasnt been hard to do at all. Ive just eliminated most soft drink, most snacks and trained myself not to each as much. we just eat too much these days, we are too wealthy and food is too cheap (and sugary and salty). And we shouldnt eat so much meat.

Thanks for that, will watch them this weekend!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by MWTB

I was on 1500 calories (I weigh my food, I am precise) for 2 months. I lost a few kg and then stopped. I was doing heavy weight training every day and cardio afterwards for 30 minutes or more. I also work an extremely physical job. It is not possible that I was not losing weight if my metabolism was working as it should.

A 1000cal deficit, and NO weight loss?

Lets do the math.

1000Cal = the energy required to heat 1000kg water by 1 deg, or 50kg of water by 20deg.

Your body is 50-60% water, so say 50kg water (wont worry about the non-water parts of the body in this example).

To maintain weight (in this context, I mean not burn glycogen/fat/protein)while doing all that you were, AND get a 1000Cal deficit, your body temperature would have to have dropped by close to 20deg. Did it? If it did, you wouldn't be here to post about it.

What actually happened was:

1. your BMR was lower than you thought. it drops as your weight drops. your TDEE drops as your weight drops too.

2. you were retaining water. significant calorie deficits increase cortisol. intense exercise increases cortisol. cortisol increases water retention (this should make sense as water is the most critical nutrient you need in the short-term).

At the end of the day, a calorie deficit causes your body to burn stored fuel. Yes, there are studies that show significant calorie deficits lead to *some* sparing of fat, but this is more related to sparing of brown fat (which your body burns for heat) not so much white fat (which is by far the most abundant in the body).

Metabolic damage is just the latest term being thrown around by the bodybuilding/fitness industry, and its quite frankly a load of rubbish. There is no damage, its simply an adaptive response that can easily be accounted for, and reversed (and very quickly).

[MWTB]

Why is it that two friends of mine who have just last year finished studies at university, one for nutrition and one for a masters in dietetics both told me the same thing, which is what I relayed in my post then?

I understand the role of cortisol, but how is it possible that I was on 1500 calories, not losing or gaining, yet I have since upped my calories to 2500-3000 per day and I am still not gaining or losing? How does cortisol related water retention explain that? Yes, I may be gaining muscle but not enough to disguise the amount of fat I should be losing per week.

I am still 110kg. My BMR should be approximately 2400 calories. Then factor in the fact that I go to the gym 6 days a week, lift 4 days a week and work an extremely active job. My TDEE is well over 4000 calories per day. And I was not losing on 1500? I weigh my food. I was not over eating. I was usually under 1500. 3 grilled chicken breasts per day, 200g broccoli, 200g green beans and 100g sweet potato was basically my diet.

Also I realise it can be reversed, that's what I'm in the process of doing at the moment by eating closer to my TDEE.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by MWTB

Why is it that two friends of mine who have just last year finished studies at university, one for nutrition and one for a masters in dietetics both told me the same thing, which is what I relayed in my post then?

They're quoting you ideas out of context. Starvation and semi-starvation are two different situations. Outright starvation can lead to metabolic dysfunction, semi-starvation typically does not (provided no shortfall of micro-nutrients). Google the Minnesota experiment.

I understand the role of cortisol, but how is it possible that I was on 1500 calories, not losing or gaining

Water retention. Its certainly more likely given your activity level and calorie intake.

yet I have since upped my calories to 2500-3000 per day and I am still not gaining or losing? How does cortisol related water retention explain that? Yes, I may be gaining muscle but not enough to disguise the amount of fat I should be losing per week.

How do you know? Have you been going for dexa scans? You're just taking guesses. Access to Wikipedia doesn't make it an educated guess, no offense.

I am still 110kg. My BMR should be approximately 2400 calories.

based on... ? what is your bodyfat %?

Then factor in the fact that I go to the gym 6 days a week, lift 4 days a week and work an extremely active job. My TDEE is well over 4000 calories per day.

Are you measuring waistline? You would be surprised how much muscle gain can disguise weight loss.

The whole point of my little calculation above is to demonstrate to you that you're looking for a complicated explanation to a simple situation. You cant have a caloric deficit, maintain bodyfat/muscle, and maintain your body temperature and organ function, simultaneously. Its simply impossible.

If your nutritionist friends covered even an ounce of chemistry in their course, they'd realise this. The course has some serious gaps. They look at big picture stuff, not at the nuts and bolts of how/why.

[MWTB]

Originally Posted by b0son

Water retention. Its certainly more likely given your activity level and calorie intake.

If this is the case, I am relieved, but I've done a lot of reading and my friends who actually have done the studies and are qualified have told me otherwise. I can't say this in any way without sounding like a smart ***, but I'm not trying to be, but what qualifies you to tell me this over them? Again, no offense intended, I'm just trying to separate science from bro science.

How do you know? Have you been going for dexa scans? You're just taking guesses. Access to Wikipedia doesn't make it an educated guess, no offense.

I have not, I'm just not convinced that I can gain enough muscle and water while still technically in a major calorie deficit to hide weight loss on the scale?

based on... ? what is your bodyfat %?
Around 25%


Are you measuring waistline? You would be surprised how much muscle gain can disguise weight loss.
I try to, but I fear I don't do it correctly. I feel like I always hold the tape too tight or too loose and I think that is throwing my measurements.

The whole point of my little calculation above is to demonstrate to you that you're looking for a complicated explanation to a simple situation. You cant have a caloric deficit, maintain bodyfat/muscle, and maintain your body temperature and organ function, simultaneously. Its simply impossible.

If your nutritionist friends covered even an ounce of chemistry in their course, they'd realise this. The course has some serious gaps. They look at big picture stuff, not at the nuts and bolts of how/why.

Again, if you could tell me how you know all this and why you know more then them then I would be more than happy to take your advice over theirs. I'm not trying to be ignorant, I'm just taking their word as gospel at the moment because I know for a fact that they have both done the study. No offense to you was intended mate, I hope it didn't come across like that.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by MWTB

Again, if you could tell me how you know all this and why you know more then them

Biochemist, PhD.

[AU Mont]

1200 for women, and 1500 calorie diet for men is a pretty stock standard thing when it comes to losing weight.

If your weight loss stalled, then theres something else going on. Eating 2400-3000 a day is going backwards imo

[MWTB]

Originally Posted by AU Mont

1200 for women, and 1500 calorie diet for men is a pretty stock standard thing when it comes to losing weight.

If your weight loss stalled, then theres something else going on. Eating 2400-3000 a day is going backwards imo

What's your take on this then? I stalled for more than a month on 1500 cals, now I'm back between 2500 and 3000 and I'm still not gaining or losing.

[Road Games]

Hello again

Thought i might chip in as i went on Lite n' Easy for a few months to lose some of my gut but didnt really lose anything on the 1800 calorie plan ..

I dropped to 1500 and then 1200 but nothing worked to kill my cravings except i drank more grog of an evening...

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...7&postcount=22

So fast forward to today

I now plan every meal diligently and there is NO Alcohol in the house or JUNK food...

I have lost a few kg's this week but more importantly the cravings are gone ..

I am eating Kangaroo meat and way more vegetables than ever before..

My water intake is up and my caffiene intake is down...

I have a personal trainer that i visit every morning at 6am and i do Tapout XT of an afternoon against her wishes...

I have been off work with a knee ailment that is preventing me from bending/walking so this is bloody hard work!

I am fatigued but i know longer crave rubbish food's or alcohol....

This is the only forum i frequent now and i dont sit still for longer than 1hr if i can help it, so i thought i might share the fact my lifestyle changes are definately working for me ...

plus i am an Alcoholic

If anyone would like me to scan up the nutritional eating plans i have been following feel free to ask ..

Peace out
Daz..x..

[MWTB]

Wouldn't mind taking a look at your diet plan if that's alright. Keen to shake it up a bit from the diet I've written myself.

[AU Mont]

Originally Posted by MWTB

What's your take on this then? I stalled for more than a month on 1500 cals, now I'm back between 2500 and 3000 and I'm still not gaining or losing.

I recently got "fat" but was self inflicted. Tried eating nearly 4000 calories daily with all the wrong foods to gain "mass". Stupid i know, but thats what i did.

Went from 72kg to 85kg in a couple months, all went to the gut, holy crap looked like i was ready to give birth.

Losing the weight was easy, and lost 11kg in 4 weeks.

3 Meals a day, aimed for 500 calories each meal........ no more. Plus a 120 calorie protein shake mixed with water between meals. Did some weights every morning & 20 min on the punching bag every afternoon.

NO SUGAR. NO ALCOHOL.

Lost the weight slowly but surely without eating up too much muscle.

I cant really give any more advice re: diet, but the main trick is to kick sugar & alcohol out completely and keep the body fit with cardio. Eventually when you wish to maintain weight, sugar imo is still a big no-no.......... beers i have on the weekends and to compensate i dont have my afternoon protein/oats shake. Keeping weight firm at 77kg.

[pundit]

How is everyone going with their weight gain and loss?

I have had a slack week, went to AFF nats and that kinda stuff, interstate trip = never too healthy.. Spesh prinny laps on a friday night..

Anyways not too sure where I am, at currently on the scales.. But I am sorta impressed with this bit of a before and after pic.. The right is a pic from the computer at the gym from when I first signed up

[blueoval]

looking trim Scotty. Those kind of before and after pics really put things in perspective. You've come a long way so keep up the routine bloke

[Road Games]

Well i was 115kg's

This program is changing all that though !!



Currently i am 109 kg's after two solid weeks with a Personal Trainer.

[blueoval]

That is solid weight loss in 2 weeks Jet. Keep it up mate.

[Road Games]

I watch what i stuff in my mouth mate .. so hard to shake the bad habits .... i didnt drink last Supercar round and my trainer says i should have a few this weekend to reward myself.. i just dunno ?

I think i will get punished on the monday if i admit to it

[blueoval]

Thats the downfall if you choose to reward too soon. There is nothing bad about rewarding yourself just as long as its done in moderation.

[pundit]

Originally Posted by blueoval

looking trim Scotty. Those kind of before and after pics really put things in perspective. You've come a long way so keep up the routine bloke

Cheers shav. I think I have done quite well myself... also dont think I look my age which is great (nearly 26).

[MWTB]

It's been a while since I've been here...just weighing in with this progress picture. Shav's already seen it on instagram, but figured I'd chuck it up here to try and restart this thread..

Yes, that is a cat shirt. 102kg down from 142.6. 40kg milestone. So stoked with the progress. Eating around 2500-2700 calories a day and losing. I'm running 5km every other day and lifting 4-5 days a week. I've never felt this healthy before and getting more attention from women than I ever thought possible (I've been a fatty my whole life). That wasn't my main goal but it certainly isn't something I'll be complaining about.

[blueoval]

Your progress is astonishing Matt. Something you should always be proud of. The amazing thing is you have learned to make this a 'lifestyle' change instead of a fad to reach a goal for whatever reason, and the results speak for themselves.

A lot of people concentrate on detoxing, or going on a diet for summer of their reunion or wedding etc, doing in crazily fast time, to some extent too fast, and then get back on the fat wagon after, eating s*** and not only put on what they lost but usually increasing in size. This is the wrong thinking.

Real impressed with your tenacity to not give up and proud to see your progress mate. A lot of people can gain encouragement from your example.

[Spudz27]

Well chaps it has been a long time between posts. Sadly when I began my new job, I fell back into the old routine and have gained 6-8kg in the last 6months. Went back to eating nothing but junk food, no gym etc. Changed that this week, regime is now

Gym in morning before work
Muscle Milk powder mixed with water, handfull of berries and half banana for my post workout/breakfast
Half bodytrim bar for morning tea
Lean meat (grilled chicken, ham or tuna) and salad at lunch
Second half of bodytrim bar for afternoon tea
Scrambled eggs with spinach and mushroom, or meat and brown rice for dinner.

Has been very hard makijg the swap but Inam yet to eat anything bad. I got a few naughtie things to reward as a snack, but even then it is things like super hot corn chips from the organic produce shop here and they are not even bad for you.

Goijg back to the gym has been an eye opener, I tried to go back into the routine I was on when I stopped and was basically given a lesson lol. The other thing is in the last 6months my muscle growth had begun to waste away again. A fee days at the gym and my arms have gotten back to and gone beyond the size they were when I stopped. The only other supplement I use is an intra workout catalyst while I am at the gym, I hate water so was looking for something to drink that tasted good during a workout. My gym recently had a cost price sale so I jumped on the oppurtunity to grab a big tub of muscle milk at cost and the workout catalyst.

[TheSneakiness]

After being told in a roundabout way by a doctor that I'm a prime candidate for a heart attack at 29 I've made a fairly drastic change to my eating habits and lifestyle.

Cut out alot of garbage and started exercising more. My stomach has shrunk after 3 days (I don't look like I'm 7 months pregnant anymore).

Need to buy some scales cause I want to know the effort I'm putting in is actually doing something.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

After being told in a roundabout way by a doctor that I'm a prime candidate for a heart attack at 29 I've made a fairly drastic change to my eating habits and lifestyle.

Look into the 5:2 diet, or intermittent fasting. Gets good weight loss results, AND lowers cholesterol and circulating fat.

Take it easy with the exercise, ease your way into it. If your doctor has concerns about heart attacks at your age, you must have some shocking blood numbers. Going overboard with the exercise before your body has started to adapt can do more harm than good (eg. heart attack, stroke due to dislodged arterial plaques).

That said, it wont take long for you to see results. After only 6mths of only 2.5km jogs once per fortnight, I've nearly halved my time and dropped my resting heart rate by 15bpm (from below average to excellent). Intensity is less important than consistency.

[ten[A]cio[U]s]

Originally Posted by crazy-au

So, I have started yet another journey for weightloss. This time I plan to take it a little different and get help. Doing it myself has failed year after year.

I will be seeing a nutritionist when I have the money and making a meal plan, then seeing my personal trainer for the exercise part.

For the time being, are there any nutritionists/dietitians who are willing to have a chat and help me make a temporary plan for my goals? I would really appreciate any form of assistance.

So I never saw a nutritionist or a personal trainer.

Still managed to lose 34kgs over the 12 months.

Injury followed by holidays and high work loads, I gained around 10 of that back. Getting back into my old program now. Early morning training is far less brutal when it isn't in the negative degrees outside!

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

After being told in a roundabout way by a doctor that I'm a prime candidate for a heart attack at 29 I've made a fairly drastic change to my eating habits and lifestyle.

Cut out alot of garbage and started exercising more. My stomach has shrunk after 3 days (I don't look like I'm 7 months pregnant anymore).

Need to buy some scales cause I want to know the effort I'm putting in is actually doing something.

Try to be more active in your lifestyle, and change your eating habits. There is no need to go on some drastic diet. You dont want to shock your body into starvation mode. A lot of people go on their detox plans thinking they are cleansing the body fat off them, and then they fall back into their old eating habits and gain more weight than they had before. Get it in your mind that this is a LIFESTYLE change, not some diet fad.

As a suggestion:

- Be selective in your food choices.
- Reduce alcohol intake
- Dont think of take away food as an only option
- Increase water intake
- How about taking the stairs instead of the elevator
- Eat when you feel hungry, and not just for the sake of it
- Take up a sport you can do each week or just go for a 30min brisk walk/run every day if you can.
- Include less packaged foods in your weekly shopping and go for the fresh fruits and veggies.
- Get your partner to join you in motivating eat other to change

and ultimately, BE WILLING TO CHANGE. Your success will depend on how much YOU want to change.

This thread has been a great inspiration for a lot of members here already. Don't feel like you are alone in this.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by b0son

Look into the 5:2 diet, or intermittent fasting. Gets good weight loss results, AND lowers cholesterol and circulating fat.

Take it easy with the exercise, ease your way into it. If your doctor has concerns about heart attacks at your age, you must have some shocking blood numbers. Going overboard with the exercise before your body has started to adapt can do more harm than good (eg. heart attack, stroke due to dislodged arterial plaques).

That said, it wont take long for you to see results. After only 6mths of only 2.5km jogs once per fortnight, I've nearly halved my time and dropped my resting heart rate by 15bpm (from below average to excellent). Intensity is less important than consistency.

She was worried about my blood pressure for sure 140/80 or something like that off the top of my head. My heart rate jumps a fair bit when exercising (averages out at 150bpm).

Cholestorol is high and my uric acid count was high too so need to cut down on foods containing that.

That being said however I have been going fairly hard out for someone who barely exercises and apart from raising a mean sweat I've been feeling good.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by blueoval

You dont want to shock your body into starvation mode

This is only an issue if you already have a low body fat. Starvation mode only really kicks in for the average person when they've been on a very low calorie diet for weeks.

[SXR6]

I'm not on a diet more so just eating correctly the right amounts at the right times.
Also hit the gym almost 3 months ago trying to get in shape build muscle etc etc.
I do weights 4 times a week. Hardly any cardio, about 1.5-2hrs a week.
I've lost 17kg in 7 weeks. Fat is still coming off but staying the same weight now. Body is changing. Muscles are showing and feeling good.
Basically:
7am protein shake
9am sandwich with anything
12pm chicken and salad or standard pub lunch(steak usually)
2pm just a salad and fruit
5pm protein shake and fruit
8pm - 9pm gym
10.30ish dinner. No carbs meats and salad mainly.

Have "cheat" days where I eat anything I want and still have a couple of drinks of a night and 2-3 coffees a day. Still drink lots of water. Changed to zero instead of coke and small things like that.

I've only just started taking other supplements such as alky creatine. Lipo 6 black and CLA with L-Carnitine. Might be in my head but its making a world of difference. lol

Cheers
Mart

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

She was worried about my blood pressure for sure 140/80 or something like that off the top of my head. My heart rate jumps a fair bit when exercising (averages out at 150bpm).

Cholestorol is high and my uric acid count was high too so need to cut down on foods containing that.

That being said however I have been going fairly hard out for someone who barely exercises and apart from raising a mean sweat I've been feeling good.

Lost 3.6kg after week 1.

However am feeling bloated in the stomach so need to identify what I'm eating that is causing this.