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16-11-2018, 11:26 AM | #121 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,603
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Of course there isn't, and its a myth.
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16-11-2018, 12:09 PM | #122 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Melb.
Posts: 4,454
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Quote:
I'd guess a general survey would list these last three brands as more reliable then a Ford or Holden however were all vehicles maintained completely by the manufacturers requirements, never neglected, service skipped. I would imagine an "older"owner of a Toyota would studiously follow the service schedule but would a 5 year old Falcon in the hands of a younger owner be maintained as carefully. Yes I know I'm generalising but it would be interesting to measure vehicle reliability factoring in maintenance of the car by the owner. EG.If 80% of Toyota owners serviced by the book and 60% of Ford owners does it have a bearing on vehicle reliability? In my own case the most trouble I've had with a vehicle was my T5 Transporter, most fixed under warranty and some when over 260,000km so I couldn't really expect too much. My BA, FG, SZ, SZII and 2nd SZII have only ever had routine servicing. |
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16-11-2018, 12:26 PM | #123 | |||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,652
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Having said that, even the humble Camry which like Commodore has been a segment leader for a loooong time, it too has struggled to regain market share post local production. If Toyota, who sell in the order of 3 to 1 against its former local opposition, cant make Australian's flock to its imported Camry which is basically the same car underneath, what makes people think Holden have made some fundamental error in facing the same challenges with an imported Commodore which is so different to its predecessor. Perhaps its just a case of Aussies arent over the end of local versions of those cars yet... |
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16-11-2018, 12:57 PM | #124 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,603
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Quote:
if you break it down, hilux only just outsells ranger, and mostly only on 4x2 sales. corolla is often beaten by mazda3 and sometimes even i30. camry and prado sell in decent numbers compared to their opposition though. most of Toyota's sales is just from accumulation through many models.
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16-11-2018, 01:24 PM | #125 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,312
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Quote:
The knock on effect of ZB Commodore is to drag down sales of the rest of the range, something that's been shored up with lots of discounting and registering zero klm demos. Last edited by jpd80; 16-11-2018 at 01:30 PM. |
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16-11-2018, 02:54 PM | #126 | |||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,652
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Quote:
Im not sure why having a broader range of models is considered an unfair advantage, no one said Ford cant compete in those areas, they choose not to or they did and have pulled out because they cant compete with what they have to offer. Surely you're not suggesting that Toyota arent making money due to having so many products on offer, their products are priced at a premium to their relevant opposition. Hilux convincingly accounted for Ranger this month in both 4x4 and 4x2, Mazda3 does not 'often' beat Corolla without incentives and the same with i30, infact, im not sure you could say that with a straight face as neither of them has topped the Corolla since January and when they do its only for a month here and there and by a small margin compared to when Corolla occupies the no1 spot. |
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16-11-2018, 02:58 PM | #127 | |||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
VF and its predecessors brought customers to Holden's door, ZB hasnt turned them away, they just aren't turning up anymore because they haven't accepted the import as a replacement. |
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16-11-2018, 03:07 PM | #128 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,312
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Year to date sales of 4x4 Hilux and Ranger are neck and neck
Hilux.........31,898 Ranger......30,863 A thousand sales lead is still a win to Toyota but the 4x2 sales show Hilux's added strength with low end tradie sales, Ford discontinuing the 2.5 petrol a few years back.. Hilux.........11,265 Ranger........4,447 |
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16-11-2018, 03:07 PM | #129 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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On top of that Holden get the double whammy of killing off the enthusiasts buying SS's and HSV's. |
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16-11-2018, 03:14 PM | #130 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,312
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Quote:
see big discounts that are just too hard to ignore. While that's an effective tool to lower stock levels, it cheapens the brand and absolutely kills resale values. Toyota still does deals (that's why they are called dealers), it's just that discounts are not as big or well known (dealer Vs National), there's always some bargains to be had for buyers who are prepared to seek them out. One of the secrets with Toyota is the whole buying experience, about ten years ago I let my wife go through it, she'd never bought a new vehicle on her own. We saw a great deal on base RAV4 with really good finance so i let her do the whole lot and signed afterwards. I gotta say the whole process was very painless and down right friendly.... in contrast, only one of the three Ford dealerships I bough new cars from really came up to that mark...one of them sent me off with the fuel light on. the same one that told my wife to come back with hubby and we'll do a deal. Last edited by jpd80; 16-11-2018 at 03:25 PM. |
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16-11-2018, 03:31 PM | #131 | |||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 8,652
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Quote:
Another indicator of how a brand is going at retail level is in staff retention. Sales people rarely left unless pushed, would you walk away from a cash cow... When Toyota offer 'deals' its to clear superceeded stock, not when a facelift has just arrived... |
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16-11-2018, 03:34 PM | #132 | ||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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They're still buying them, i see more blue plated Toyotas than any other car on the road, i drive for a job.
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16-11-2018, 03:42 PM | #133 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Maybe your area is feeling a bit more of a slow down due to what's happening there.. and the few accessories, tank of fuel you mentioned is what I'm alluding to as a "discount" sorry of I didn't make that clear, sometimes that's all buyers want... Quote:
Especially when it's a limited time and models Last edited by jpd80; 16-11-2018 at 03:48 PM. |
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16-11-2018, 05:26 PM | #134 | |||
AKA "the other bloke"
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,970
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Quote:
Let's say ford's profit margin is higher than Toyota on their hilux range. Yes ford has made it's profit on it's twin cab range, but you can't ignore the importance of the hilux povo pack numbers either, a 6 thousand odd difference is big and let's be fair here, small businesses with a range of staff are generally looking at the povo packs for their staff not up spec versions.
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Her's: 2000 AU II Fairmont Ghia 75th anniversary VCT meteorite & 2014 yaris - white His Toy: 2012 fg II GT-E, emperor red His: VS Ute 5 Litre 5 speed (povo pack) His: 2012 FG II GS, Vanish His: 2003 BA GT-P, Lightening Strike Jnr: 2002 AU III Falcon XR6 ST, 5 speed Blueprint & 1978 XC Fairmont Neptune Blue Previous: 1976 HX 50th Anniversary Kingswood 2014 FGX G6E Turbo 1980 XD Falcon GL 2003 BA Falcon XR6 1991 EB Falcon S 1989 EA Fairmont 1982 XE Fairmont 1968 XT Falcon |
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16-11-2018, 05:50 PM | #135 | ||
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Posts: 5,715
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Are we trying to suggest Toyota don't discount? A quick look on the Toyota website and the first vehicle I see is a Hilux SR5 advertised for $52990 driveaway. Isn't the RRP for them 54 or 55 plus on roads?
All brands discount for one reason or another. |
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16-11-2018, 05:59 PM | #136 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,312
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Well here you go,
Toyota Hilux SR5 4x4 Crew Cab Ute $58,837 drive away PX3 Ranger XLT 4x4 Crew Cab Ute $60,485 drive away Not much difference but probably enough that Ford could swallow $2600 and give buyers 5 years of free servicing. And yes naddis01, the 4x2 Ranger XLT Crew cab is $54,614 Drive Away.... Gotta look at the whole deal, I'm sure Toyota watches Ford and keeps pricing keen. Last edited by jpd80; 16-11-2018 at 06:05 PM. |
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16-11-2018, 06:59 PM | #137 | ||
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16-11-2018, 07:22 PM | #138 | ||
T3/Sprint8
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,494
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Just to jump in for not that I care who sells more and what model in general but Toyota are a brilliant company machine arn't they in the big picture.
I feel if they wanted to they could open the gap easily in 4x4HiluxSR5 vs Wildtrak for eg but why bother dropping margin as long as they are 1 by a measly 1000 units or not. Camrys here in Sydney have now been taken in by cabbies full on, the best replacement they can find to Falcon. Privately Camry has lost out huge to the small/mid SUV now, most of those leather patched cardigan owners gone for those now but would they care ? its just shifted sand. Corollas still kick **** in sales, jsut that there is more decent opposition. I just saw the new model 4door sedan for next year here, looked pretty good. Bent 8 may add more being his background was working for the company but like most OE's quality has changed for the worst but not to the point of "I'm not going to buy that" for starters but I see a couple of "reliability myth" mentions. Sorry the reliability is still pretty good. I've had a 4x4SR5 diesel for quite some time, 150thou hard k's on off road, NOT 1 thing wrong with it but usual maintenance servicing thankyou very much and I know countless people with same experience who like me have other brands in their ownership that have had far more issues than running costs. They are boring as bat **** cars butbutbut its hassle free for me.
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16-11-2018, 07:40 PM | #139 | ||
BLUE OVAL INC.
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Another thing to consider is the % of sales of 4x4 utes by both brands, Toyota's Hilux, no1 in sales is a mere 20% of its total sales per month, Fords Ranger at no2 is in the vacinity of 65% of its total monthly sales, if your giving away $2600 on lets say even 35% of your total numbers, and i would say that was conservative, its got to be hurting your bottom line more than a few sets of mats and a tank of petrol.
Lets do the figures, 35% of 5.5k sales is 1.925k units, multiply that by $2600, thats $5m, then multiply it by 2 months...$10m Every brand offers driveaway pricing, thats a given, im talking about additional large scale incentives like $2600 worth of servicing, where servicing is one of if not the biggest money spinner for shop front outlets. Its what keeps the doors open in many cases. When you consider one brand is into utes by 65% of its volume and the other only 20%, not much has to change for dire outcomes for one of those examples. |
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16-11-2018, 07:43 PM | #140 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,312
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Entry point of Hilux 4x2 is $23,990 for petrol and ~$27K for the diesel
Entry point for Ranger diesel is just over $31K pretty obvious that Toyota is covering a bigger 4x2 sales foot print with prices Ford doesn't match. Last edited by jpd80; 16-11-2018 at 07:48 PM. |
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16-11-2018, 07:50 PM | #141 | |||
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Quote:
What I was getting at was we shouldn't assume that 4x2 means low profit sales which seems to be the assumption in this thread. I'm sure there is still plenty of meat on a 4x2 XLT or Toyota's equivalent. |
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16-11-2018, 07:52 PM | #142 | |||
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Quote:
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16-11-2018, 07:56 PM | #143 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,312
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Especially when the corresponding Ranger XLT with 5 year's free servicing is around $1,600 dearer...
Bent 8's logic doesn't account for differences in price between Hilux and Ranger.. Yes, Ford is giving up some money but they get a whole lot more in return. consider the plight of the Colorado LT 4x4 crew cab - $41,990 drive away. |
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16-11-2018, 09:16 PM | #144 | ||
BLUE OVAL INC.
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You're not factoring in the costs associated with having the two in stock, Ford may be getting more per unit for their item, but it may be costing them more to bring it to market in the first place.
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16-11-2018, 09:19 PM | #145 | ||
BLUE OVAL INC.
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16-11-2018, 09:40 PM | #146 | |||
T3/Sprint8
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 16,494
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Quote:
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Tickfords T3/TS50 '02 Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16 Daily Macan GTS "Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln" |
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16-11-2018, 10:33 PM | #147 | ||
Powered By EcoBoost
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Central Qld.
Posts: 3,487
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Incorrect.
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-new...revealed-70533 Toyota released a new spec Hilux just after July this year, a bloke I now really really well works at a Toyota dealer, they are always very very busy |
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16-11-2018, 10:40 PM | #148 | |||
BLUE OVAL INC.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
The entire range hasnt been refreshed since 2017 and further down in the article it admits it still lags behind Ranger for freshness and tech. Its not quite on the same scale as a whole new engine and transmission, but if it makes you feel better you can pretend it is. Hilux is still selling more and without giving away 5yrs of service though... Last edited by BENT_8; 16-11-2018 at 10:46 PM. |
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16-11-2018, 10:57 PM | #149 | ||
Former BTIKD
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sunny Downtown Wagga Wagga. NSW.
Posts: 53,197
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Y'know I'm pretty sure that there was more makes than just Toyota and Ford in that report.
So can we stop with the Peeing contest gentleman please.
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16-11-2018, 10:59 PM | #150 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Canberra
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It took ages to see one ZB but I have seen a few now. Decent looking car, but not a Commodore.
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