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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#121 | ||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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They are chev’s not holdens, and projected to sell less than 200 a month. Can’t see how that will help. Not when they are 20k more expensive than an equivalent mustang. They will be rarer than the zb.
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#123 | ||
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#124 | ||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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Where it gets scary for Holden is, Mustang sales.
ZB has every chance of being out-sold by a sports car...a niche car. What happens if HSV sell more Camaro's than the Commodore?
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#125 | |||
Au Falcon = Mr Reliable
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
Posts: 4,076
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Quote:
There you go Bossxr8, you missed that part lol! There was talk earlier in the thread that the hero car Mustang brings in potential customers into the Ford showrooms to look at it & maybe walk out buying another Ford product if not the 'Stang, can a Camaro have the same effect in the Holden showrooms? Thats what i was getting at, what's good for the goose can work for the gander (excuse the lousy cliche' lol)? cheers, Maka
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Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792 Proud owner of a optioned keeper S1 Tickford Falcon AU XR6 VCT - "it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel" (Drive.com 2007) |
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#126 | ||
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#127 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: A.C.T
Posts: 1,577
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#128 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: A.C.T
Posts: 1,577
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#129 | ||
2004 XR8
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Posts: 133
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#130 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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[QUOTE=Maka;6129363][QUOTE=Bossxr8]"They are chev’s not holdens, and projected to sell less than 200 a month. Can’t see how that will help. Not when they are 20k more expensive than an equivalent mustang. They will be rarer than the zb."
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Based on GM pulling out of europe and abandoning chevrolet a few years ago there, there’s no way they will get the numbers to make the camaro in factory rhd. Australia, nz and south africa would be the only markets and without uk sales there is not enough to justify the many millions it would cost to put a rhd version into production at the factory. They rejected it in the last version and that included uk and europe numbers. |
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#131 | ||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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#133 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,924
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Quote:
You will generally find that a turbo makes the engine less efficient. Also, the claims about the EB having better power and economy are misleading at best. Sure, a 2.0l 4 will generally be more economical than a 4.0l 6, if driven miserly. And if you drive an EB to the standard, that's what you get, as you're so far off boost that the turbo is practically irrelevant. Then of course you can plant your foot, spool up the ole turbo, and pretty much dial in whatever power you want. But don't expect decent fuel economy. |
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#134 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,924
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It's interesting to think of that path not taken...
Holden sold so many appalling pieces of junk as their imported mid-large FWD option, that I lost track. But that's basically what we have here. ie, its equivalent to Ford selling the Mondeo as a Falcon. I would have given my left nut to see the Falcon live on. But I am so thankful to Ford that they didn't do this. I have never liked Commodes, but if I were a fan, I would be appalled by this. Is this the car than won Bathurst so many times? And how can they claim all this horse**** about Australian DNA? And lets not forget, that in a country where even the Taxis are Mercs, Opels are what poor people drive. Basically the German equivalent of Daewoo. And they're not even GM any more... |
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#135 | |||
GT-P With An Ego
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Location: Canberra
Posts: 20,638
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Quote:
oh will their faces be red. Mazda seems to be the only one still researching n/a motors, but the result is very complex designs (e.g. their HCCI) approximating the diesel cycle with petrol.
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1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, mild 5.0L, high end stereo, slow'n'thirsty - 138.8rwkw. 2006 BF GT-P in Ego, 5.8L all alloy, Kenne Bell 2.8HLC, Nizpro Stage 2 ZF - 440rwkw. 2008 SY F6X in Silhouette, Ford Performance Club of ACT |
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#136 | ||
Au Falcon = Mr Reliable
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
Posts: 4,076
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The smaller capacity turbo fours are the one's that are argubly less reliable if flogged & not serviced on time with quality parts, oils & fueled with premium fuel etc.
Disposable small (whitegoods) turbo cars that last around 240,000 km is good for the environment & business (jobs & growth?) apparently hey lol. A couple of my sometimes mandatory interesting links - https://www.designnews.com/electroni...10258542158513 And from that sometimes funny & mostly controversial bearded leprechaun (well to me he looks like one ha ha) - https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/the-...-turbo-engines cheers, Maka
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Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792 Proud owner of a optioned keeper S1 Tickford Falcon AU XR6 VCT - "it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel" (Drive.com 2007) |
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#137 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,125
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Quote:
Of course a 2.0T is more efficient than a 4.0na. What auto manufacturers are doing is decreasing engine size and adding a turbo to compensate. Not adding a turbo to an already capable engine. |
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#138 | |||
GT-P With An Ego
![]() ![]() Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 20,638
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Quote:
but sure if you're going to make use of the extra power available to you with the turbo, it'll use more fuel. power = fuel My BF GT-P, which I've had since new, starting life as a 5.4L 290kW (240rwkw), is now a 5.8L supercharged with 440rwkw, my daily economy has not noticeably changed over the life of the car. Sure it'll suck the tank dry in no time if I've racing it, but regular commuting/highway mileage is close enough to being the same.* i.e. to do 110km/h down the highway takes the same amount of power - and thus fuel. * my first 20 tanks averaged to 15.83L/100, and my most recent 20 tanks averages to 15.17L/100 (there was some highway trips in that last 20).
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1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, mild 5.0L, high end stereo, slow'n'thirsty - 138.8rwkw. 2006 BF GT-P in Ego, 5.8L all alloy, Kenne Bell 2.8HLC, Nizpro Stage 2 ZF - 440rwkw. 2008 SY F6X in Silhouette, Ford Performance Club of ACT |
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#139 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,924
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Quote:
![]() ![]() ![]() Ok smart****, Give me a single example of a turbocharged engine that is more economical than the same engine in n/a. ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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#140 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,909
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Quote:
You better call Ford and let them know their ecoboost philosophy is all wrong.
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2022 RAM Laramie 5.7 2023.50 Ranger Wildtrak 3.0 V6 Premium Pack 2024 Everest Sport 3.0 V6 Touring Pack 2024.50 Mustang Darkhorse 6M Blue Ember + Appearance pack ETA Jan 25. |
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#141 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 44
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I can't get anywhere near the economy of the advertised n/a engine in my G6ET when driving very sedately (10.7L/100km). I assumed it due to the lowering of the compresson required for the turbo.
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#142 | |||
GT-P With An Ego
![]() ![]() Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 20,638
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Quote:
No factory engine turbo is going to be the same as the n/a with a turbo bolted on, there's always modifications done to them to support the boost. from hardware changes like, lower compression pistons (with direct injection and more powerful ECU's this is becoming less required, so off boost performance isn't compromised), bulkier rods, to things like Ford have done specific to a motor design, removing the intake runner butterflies. And of course the ECU is remapped entirely. So there's no way to compare apples with apples, unless you DIY it. So take a n/a motor, and bolt on a turbo. yep it'll be less efficient for sure. Thankfully manufacturers don't just slap on bits. There's literally millions spent on the calibration and testing programs alone for a new motor. FPV spent $40 million to take the Coyote and supercharge it. buying the superchargers didn't take up all that money.
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1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, mild 5.0L, high end stereo, slow'n'thirsty - 138.8rwkw. 2006 BF GT-P in Ego, 5.8L all alloy, Kenne Bell 2.8HLC, Nizpro Stage 2 ZF - 440rwkw. 2008 SY F6X in Silhouette, Ford Performance Club of ACT |
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#143 | |||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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Quote:
That's not how it works. A turbocharger uses the exhaust to force air into the engine, rather than it relying on the vacuum to do it. Essentially, you are using spent energy (heat) that would otherwise be wasted...thats one key point in efficiency. Because the engine isn't relying on vacuum to turn air into energy, the size can be reduced (remember engine = air pump) where as a larger engine typically makes more power because it has bigger volume to draw air, the smaller engine makes better use of its chamber volume. When companies can downsize their engines, make more power and torque due to a turbocharger...there must be some science working. Oh...my EL XR6 was very good on fuel with a turbo slapped on.
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#144 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,125
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#145 | ||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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#146 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,052
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#147 | ||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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#148 | ||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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The next subject in the commodore thread:
Clothes pegs, and how to use them correctly.
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#149 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,643
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If your clothes peg has a rear hinge don't replace it with a front hinge and expect the market to buy it in similar volumes.
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I6 + AWD |
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#150 | ||
Donating Member
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