Thousands of Aussie Ford owners could take part in class action over ‘defective automatic gearboxes’

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

Personally I think it's a solution to a problem which didn't really exist ..

Being more optimistic I'd suggest it's the wrong type of gearbox for the vast majority of drivers applications .. not necessarily the drivers themselves. Most people aren't buying Focus/Fiesta for long, fast trips. They buy them to potter about in city traffic, inching forward, performing numerous tight turning and parking scenarios.

My Audi did 90% peak hour stop start city driving without issue, and I liked its direct power delivery in that environment. It's perfectly fine in every traffic situation.

Get in a manual car in peak hour traffic with some people and they struggle, other drivers ate fine.

Nothing wrong withe gearbox, some drives just have no idea.

[csv8]

http://www.news.com.au/technology/in...a69a8e4eb0cf5e How to get a refund from Ford..

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Stefan

This will be interesting. Having owned a DSG Audi and having sold it with 140,000kms on the ODO with out issue, I bet the biggest issue for Ford is fitting a DSG to a mainstream car that does not suit the vast majority of drivers.

Very few people I have driven with are capable of driving at a single constant speed. The vast majority will drive 100m on a straight bit of road and get on an off the accelerator 5 times and hit the brake 3 time for no apparent reason. A taxi I was in a few month ago literally pressed the accelerator for a second then got off it for a second then back on, over and over again for 15 minutes.

If you drive like that with a DSG and it will be an unbearable ride as it won't know what to do and will wear out in no time as it engages and disengages constantly. I can just imagine my 77 year old mother in a DSG car, it would be a nightmare.

That is how they are, and I bet when Ford service guys say it is how you drive it, I imagine they are probably right in a lot of cases.

I think it is the wrong type of gearbox for the vast majority of drivers...

yes possibly, in some instances, but if anything my wife is a little heavy footed, the vehicle is in light traffic most times with a bit of start stopping, not a lot, auto should excel in these situations.

the problems are that on takeoff it shudders and slips, driving normally in traffic with no throttle movement it will shift up and down roughly, when coming to a roundabout or intersection where one slows but does not stop then take off again it will be in the wrong gear then gets confused as to what to do next upon shifting to another gear it will give a very discernible clunk.

I have been driving autos and manuals for over 45 years, my wife has been about the same, we tow a caravan all over australia with a manual and an auto (interchanging between vehicles depending on whether we are going "bush" or tarmac) so driving is not something we are strangers to.

My BA handles these situations without hesitation and without problems, we have had quite a few vehicles and understand the performance of an auto, this is like nothing we have experienced before.

to say we don't know how to drive these vehicles is stuff and nonsense.

there is a well recognised and documented problem with these boxes/software that should be rectified by Ford.

[Stefan]

Poppa, If this is your first DSG, I agree it will be like nothing you have experienced before.

Admittedly my experience is with the 6-speed Audi DSG 2007, it may be a better box than the ford one, I don't know.

Did you take your car (or a DSG car) for a test drive before buying? Did you notice these issues?

[poppa smurf]

unfortunately I have the distinct situation in that I married a "strong minded, self sustaining" female back when the dinosaurs were chasing us down for food.

she simply drove into the yard with it one day and said nothing, I said "new car" she said "yes , just bought it", I have very little input as to what S.W.M.B.O. buys, I simply go along with whatever madam wishes.

I have driven it, maybe, 4 times and I simply hate it, it is a very difficult vehicle to come to terms with, I have had many autos but this is by far the worse.

when madam states enough is enough then it will simply vanish, where I know not.....nor care not, another shiny new vehicle will simply appear in the carport in the near future.

I have not experienced a DSG box before and I hope, if this is what they are like, to never experience one again.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

I have not experienced a DSG box before and I hope, if this is what they are like, to never experience one again.

The worst thing is the times when you think you're about to get killed, like going into a roundabout or merging with fast traffic and you make a break for it - your brain forgetting for a moment that today you're not driving your other car with the ZF, thus cancelling out the "you need to adapt your driving style to it" instruction from the salesman - and plant your foot down and nothing happens. Except that you're now in the stream of traffic and bracing yourself for the crash when the next car runs into your backside.

I don't just disagree with dual clutch boxes, I think they should be banned as a safety hazard.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by new2ford

The worst thing is the times when you think you're about to get killed, like going into a roundabout or merging with fast traffic and you make a break for it - your brain forgetting for a moment that today you're not driving your other car with the ZF, thus cancelling out the "you need to adapt your driving style to it" instruction from the salesman - and plant your foot down and nothing happens. Except that you're now in the stream of traffic and bracing yourself for the crash when the next car runs into your backside.

I don't just disagree with dual clutch boxes, I think they should be banned as a safety hazard.

my wife has come home stating this EXACT thing.......but as I say the vehicle AS A WHOLE is a very likeable package......just the box, I wonder if the fix is as simple as another box/clutches/software, but I think she will sell very soon .

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by new2ford

The worst thing is the times when you think you're about to get killed, like going into a roundabout or merging with fast traffic and you make a break for it - your brain forgetting for a moment that today you're not driving your other car with the ZF, thus cancelling out the "you need to adapt your driving style to it" instruction from the salesman - and plant your foot down and nothing happens. Except that you're now in the stream of traffic and bracing yourself for the crash when the next car runs into your backside.

I don't just disagree with dual clutch boxes, I think they should be banned as a safety hazard.

Extreme position to take.

Some people will simply be dangerous drivers no matter what. I never had anything even remotely close to this happen in my DSG equipped car.

But had similar in my father in laws stock WRX years ago, due to massive turbo lag, I accelerated and nothing, then BAM off like slingshot. I adjusted my driving quickly. I'm sure if I went back to the dealer to complain I'd be told I cant drive, that is how they are.

Or what about when you quickly merge forgetting I'm in my Euro car and merge quickly using my Windscreen Wiper as opposed to my Indicator, nearly causing an accident. If I went back to the dealer I'd be told to use the indicator on future not my windscreen wipers when changing lanes.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

but as I say the vehicle AS A WHOLE is a very likeable package......just the box,

Exactly, both VAG and Ford do some very fine vehicles, but let down by that box. It's like sitting down with your mouth watering to enjoy a gourmet meal and you find there's a fly in it.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by new2ford

The worst thing is the times when you think you're about to get killed, like going into a roundabout or merging with fast traffic and you make a break for it - your brain forgetting for a moment that today you're not driving your other car with the ZF, thus cancelling out the "you need to adapt your driving style to it" instruction from the salesman - and plant your foot down and nothing happens.

If the momentary delay causes an accident, then I would argue that it's the driver that isn't exercising safe driving practices by going for a gap that is almost non-existent.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by NX74205

If the momentary delay causes an accident, then I would argue that it's the driver that isn't exercising safe driving practices by going for a gap that is almost non-existent.

We're talking about normal gaps that are quite safe in a torque converter car. So part of the "adapting your driving style" to a dual clutch is to wait longer at intersections and ignore the tooting behind you. Great step forward in automotive technology.

[mik]

Originally Posted by NX74205

If the momentary delay causes an accident, then I would argue that it's the driver that isn't exercising safe driving practices by going for a gap that is almost non-existent.

you may say that now , but when the time comes that you accidentally make the mistake of making a break for it in heavy traffic in front of a fast moving semi , i hope it doesnt do the hesitate thing on you , if it does i suspect you wont be coming back to us telling us it was your fault because you drove it wrong .

[Bossxr8]

My ex's Focus was pretty decent, had a barely perceptible shudder in very slow speed manoeuvring and occasionally a tiny bit of shudder on take off but apart from that it was fine.

But some of them have big problems.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by Stefan

My Audi did 90% peak hour stop start city driving without issue, and I liked its direct power delivery in that environment. It's perfectly fine in every traffic situation.

Get in a manual car in peak hour traffic with some people and they struggle, other drivers ate fine.

Nothing wrong withe gearbox, some drives just have no idea.

That sounds like victim shaming to me, at what point approaching a roundabout should the driver of a DSG reach into their 'box and disengage the clutch packs, so it doesn't shudder and leave the driver stranded?

Autos should be smooth no matter what type they are, if not, then they are not fit for purpose full stop.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by new2ford

We're talking about normal gaps that are quite safe in a torque converter car.

Even in a torque converter car, I would not pull into an intersection where, if for some unknown reason, the car dies in the middle of said intersection, there wouldn't be enough time for the oncoming traffic to hit the anchors and avoid plowing into you.

Originally Posted by mik

you may say that now , but when the time comes that you accidentally make the mistake of making a break for it in heavy traffic in front of a fast moving semi , i hope it doesnt do the hesitate thing on you , if it does i suspect you wont be coming back to us telling us it was your fault because you drove it wrong .

I wouldn't have pulled in front of a semi in the first place, dual clutch car or not. But maybe that's just me.

Look, I don't deny that some of the cars have issues. Friend of mine had an LW Focus from new and had to have the clutch replaced three times in the first six months that he had it. In the end, he managed to reach a settlement with Ford. He now drives a Civic. Another friend has a Powershift LW Focus with no issues.

But my own personal (admittedly limited) experience with Powershift has been positive. Would I buy one? I'd prefer manual in any event, but if there was no choice, I'd happily get a Powershift equipped car. I remain unconvinced that the problem is (a) widespread or (b) a safety issue.

[Strange1]

They are "Automatic"... they "Automatically" simulate the experience of an L plater learning to drive a manual

It makes you wonder about the actual 'benefits' of some of these advances. Most of them are for fuel efficiency, but even if they improved it in test conditions by 0.5L/100 then that's only $610 per 100,000Km's. Does that offset the price difference for the box or the extra expense to repair?

I'm not saying nothing should change, I just think that the cost of some products outweighs their benefits.

[GTP534]

This is a widespread problem. Dealers will tell you servicing of them has been challenging.

As for questioning the ability of a driver at roundabouts all I can say the delay and indecisiveness of the gearbox only has to happen to you once. It scares the **** out of you and you will make sure you have absolutely no chance of putting yourself in harms way next time.

I've made sure my wife and daughter know to take extra care in it and so far they've been ok.

[Adamz Ghia]

Comparing an auto to a turbo is a bit off. You buy a turbo 99% of the time for performance, you'd expect to have to learn to drive it. Most people buy an auto so the car will shift the gears for them so they don't have to think about it. That's the point of an auto. Telling a little old lady to change the way she's been driving her whole life to suit the car isn't right for a car built for the masses in a city stop start environment.

Why weren't customers told prior to purchase to change their driving style? Not one person I know who has one was told.

And if there was nothing wrong with the box they wouldn't have put a regular one in the LZ

[GTLEGEND]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Comparing an auto to a turbo is a bit off. You buy a turbo 99% of the time for performance, you'd expect to have to learn to drive it. Most people buy an auto so the car will shift the gears for them so they don't have to think about it. That's the point of an auto. Telling a little old lady to change the way she's been driving her whole life to suit the car isn't right for a car built for the masses in a city stop start environment.

Why weren't customers told prior to purchase to change their driving style? Not one person I know who has one was told.

And if there was nothing wrong with the box they wouldn't have put a regular one in the LZ

The LZ Focus still has a Powershift in the Ambiente model that Australia does not get. it is still available in the USA...

[arronm]

Ford has done a lot of testing of this gearbox. It must be OK???????

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by mik

you and i could do a back yarder like that , and im thinking for a motor company it may not be that hard , but surely that would involve testing and certification all over again and a lot of mucking around , adding warranty all over again , i couldnt see ford doing it and would the motoring public want to purchase one of the revamped models ???
i couldnt see it somehow.

Back yard work and proper oem changeover is a big difference. If the woring needs changing straight away its a problem. Re calibration to the auto and abs. Fitment to the car how will it interface to the engine. What are the clearances in the engine bay. Then how much would all this cost to changeover.

Then all of this needs durability testing. Ford would know this info seeing as they just did all of this for the 2016 model. It would be interesting to see how difficult it would be.

[mik]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Back yard work and proper oem changeover is a big difference. If the woring needs changing straight away its a problem. Re calibration to the auto and abs. Fitment to the car how will it interface to the engine. What are the clearances in the engine bay. Then how much would all this cost to changeover.

Then all of this needs durability testing. Ford would know this info seeing as they just did all of this for the 2016 model. It would be interesting to see how difficult it would be.

some how i dont think ford would even entertain the idea , too much of a headache .

[NX74205]

5 things you should never do in a DCT vehicle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W42zsFYjZvM

[lra]

Originally Posted by NX74205

5 things you should never do in a DCT vehicle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W42zsFYjZvM

Geez, too techo for me.
I thought the purpose of modern cars was to make it ‘easier’ for the driver to leave their brain in neutral.
Where’s my manual 4 speed Kingswood ?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Or what about when you quickly merge forgetting I'm in my Euro car and merge quickly using my Windscreen Wiper as opposed to my Indicator, nearly causing an accident. If I went back to the dealer I'd be told to use the indicator on future not my windscreen wipers when changing lanes.

Don't know about your Euro but mine has the indicator, wipers and lights on the one stalk, on the left.

Then I get into my old XG and put the wipers on to turn as the indicators are on the right !

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by NX74205

5 things you should never do in a DCT vehicle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W42zsFYjZvM

Good video.
Too late now, but the dealers should have instructed all owners on this.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by mik

some how i dont think ford would even entertain the idea , too much of a headache .

If they somehow had to do a buyback then they might look at it if were cheaper. But seeing as its australia not much will happen and they'll prob be dragged kicking and screaming....like vw had to.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by vztrt

If they somehow had to do a buyback then they might look at it if were cheaper. But seeing as its australia not much will happen and they'll prob be dragged kicking and screaming....like vw had to.

Do you know what it costs per clutch replacement? Mum has had 3, how many others have had them replaced? Couldnt be cheap to be running the replacement program?

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by lra

Geez, too techo for me.
I thought the purpose of modern cars was to make it ‘easier’ for the driver to leave their brain in neutral.
Where’s my manual 4 speed Kingswood ?

4 speed Kingswood ... nah ... column shift 3 speed.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by xtremerus

Good video.
Too late now, but the dealers should have instructed all owners on this.

Yeah the dealers certainly should have.

They didn't because people then wouldn't have bought the cars.
Which begs the question. What were Ford thinking?