Online shopping v Local shopping

[74_XB_Ute]

I think AC/DC means that Ford is charging you $120/hour for your service but in reality its a $20/hour apprentice doing the work instead of a fully qualified Ford Technician which is what your paying for. I dont work in that industry so I not saying this is so....but I think its what AC/DC is implying. Paying top dollar for a dude under training to work your car.

[MexicanBatman]

1st year apprentices dream of $20 an hour...

Don't you get more money changing the oil at McDonalds than working for a stealer

[GreenR]

Originally Posted by MexicanBatman

1st year apprentices dream of $20 an hour...

Don't you get more money changing the oil at McDonalds than working for a stealer

Nah not really. 18 year old wage =$14.50 roughly. may have changed since i was there

[302 XC]

Apprentice on $20 an hour ???
Maybe 3 rd year or possibly 4th year

5 years ago (dont know how much it has inflated since)
First year apprentices were around the $5 an hour , and at that time pizza deliver drivers were on just under $8 an hour

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Apprentice on $20 an hour ???
Maybe 3 rd year or possibly 4th year

5 years ago (dont know how much it has inflated since)
First year apprentices were around the $5 an hour , and at that time pizza deliver drivers were on just under $8 an hour

Ah, how times have changed. I remember when I started my apprenticeship and thought it was great getting $27pw after tax.

It was surprising actually how far you could make it go back then.

[4Vman]

If it costs a Ford service dept 150k a month to cover all operational costs including wages for 20 people, property leases, running costs etc how much per hour on average do they need to charge just to cover costs if they have 15 people doing invoicable work....? (assuming they can invoice every hr of the working day...)

[buggerlugs]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/busine...-1225975602725

[ThaFlash]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

If it costs a Ford service dept 150k a month to cover all operational costs including wages for 20 people, property leases, running costs etc how much per hour on average do they need to charge just to cover costs if they have 15 people doing invoicable work....? (assuming they can invoice every hr of the working day...)

ask new oak ford hehehe...

[Gambit]

Originally Posted by trippytaka

Say what you will about Gerry but after having worked for and with him over at head office he is certainly not any of that. He never dresses any differently than a pair of chinos and an old sweater, he drives an understated car and is not in any way flashy. He is extremely tight with his money and if you met him on the street (and didn't recognise who he is) you would think he was just an average joe.

I will agree to that from the time he dealt with the Toyota dealership I was working at. He came in wearing jeans & a flanno & traded an old 75 series ute on a 79 series.

Was far from how I would've picked the owner of Harvey Norman to be

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by 74_XB_Ute

I think AC/DC means that Ford is charging you $120/hour for your service but in reality its a $20/hour apprentice doing the work instead of a fully qualified Ford Technician which is what your paying for. I dont work in that industry so I not saying this is so....but I think its what AC/DC is implying. Paying top dollar for a dude under training to work your car.

Thats possible, he probably forgot the 1 in front of the $20.

To this other commenting the cost the dealer invoices are not the wage the apprentice gets payed, it is what the dealer charges at the hourly rate. I used to contract to Telstra and my boss was invoicing $145 per hour, I was on $35 back then.

Also when I get my GT serviced no apprentice goes near it, it is the FPV trained service technician that works on my car, and no one else touches it, I make sure of that. And realistically the Ford Service is very cheap for what they charge in labour costs, about $140 for my GT plus materials.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 74_XB_Ute

I think AC/DC means that Ford is charging you $120/hour for your service but in reality its a $20/hour apprentice doing the work instead of a fully qualified Ford Technician which is what your paying for. I dont work in that industry so I not saying this is so....but I think its what AC/DC is implying. Paying top dollar for a dude under training to work your car.

$20 an hour? I wish, I was on $7.05 an hour, which is the award wage for someone who had finished year 12 in an automotive apprenticeship.

I'm now an apprentice auto electrician on $10.61 an hour as first year

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

$20 an hour? I wish, I was on $7.05 an hour, which is the award wage for someone who had finished year 12 in an automotive apprenticeship.

I'm now an apprentice auto electrician on $10.61 an hour as first year

Plus:

Comp Super
Workers Comp
Training
Provision for Sickies & Hols & Loading
Provision for rework

Just to name a few.

It cost a LOT more than the actual wage to employe someone, in the case of an ab initio apprentice or trainee usually 5 to 10 times what they are paid.

[buggo]

Originally Posted by plarazza

Nah not really. 18 year old wage =$14.50 roughly. may have changed since i was there

Nope haha.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by flappist

Plus:

Comp Super
Workers Comp
Training
Provision for Sickies & Hols & Loading
Provision for rework

Just to name a few.

It cost a LOT more than the actual wage to employe someone, in the case of an ab initio apprentice or trainee usually 5 to 10 times what they are paid.

Isn't it the same issue for everyone else who works somewhere?

[302 XC]

Flappist,
Dont forget the government rebate,tool allowance apprentices get

Sickies,holidays ect are only for full time employment

[74_XB_Ute]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

$20 an hour? I wish, I was on $7.05 an hour, which is the award wage for someone who had finished year 12 in an automotive apprenticeship.

I'm now an apprentice auto electrician on $10.61 an hour as first year

Hey i'm not saying that $20/hour is the going rate...I was simply trying to explain what AC/DC was trying to say perhaps. Like I say...I'm not in the car maintenance trade...so I have no idea what they pay their apprentices....

[aussiblue]

I would have no problems with paying 10% GST and I think it would be fairer. Most of what I buy online are things I simply can't get in Oz; specialist tools, inline hockey gear, electronic parts and some Lancer parts. Where I can get them in Oz at comparable prices I buy locally. Paying 10% GST wouldn't change my online shopping practices.

[AC/DC]

Sorry guys, , I meant that the apprentice is getting $20 hour, and ford is charging $120 per hour. Yeah, the extra $100 goes to the running of the business, , and now we all know why online is sometimes cheaper than in a store....

I pay out approx $32 000 per week in wages. Turnover approx $350 000 per week. ( retail electronics ) and for the months of Jan, Feb and March we dont make a profit at all....

Interesting to see the car dealership suddenly put on the level of the retail store.

AC/DC

[DRU842]

Other than Flappist most have missed the point & detail (not covered in the reports) that GH was making.
It's not just the GST but the clearance costs etc that are being short-cut on small purchases/values. These are exempt on small items due to the perceived 'high cost' of collection but as the volume increases, you can bet the authorities will be in for their cut and this will be passed on.
By way of example customs agents charge $100.00 to clear a shipment, there are also minimum charges for goods handling/customs processing at the wharf/airport $500.00 etc. Courier companies & Aust Post etc are exempt from individual clearance charges, duty, GST etc that wholesales & retailer have to pay on their larger consignments. This means the logical route to lower costs by buying in bulk are polluted.
My advice is to make hay while the sun shines on these on-line purchases because these holes to govt revenue will be plugged.

[74_XB_Ute]

This year alone Australia Post handled around 5.1 billion items. Even a percentage of that figure as incoming parcels that contain goods would still be a pretty high number. Could you imagine the logistical nightmare and warehouse burden it would be for Customs to handle the Import Declaration/Self Assessed clearance proccess for such a large number of items. If that was the case even under law a packet of pencils as a gift from Aunt Judy would have to go thru the proccess. Which wouldn't be worth it due to Customs fees. Even then...as you didnt know the parcel was coming from Aunt Judy...Customs would have to notify you...then you would have to electronically submit your paperwork....then Customs will hold the item for I think it is 28 days for you to make you mind up if you want to go thru the proccess or not.
So with Customs being an Australian Goverment department. Perhaps they have done the calcualtions on manhours and resources to clear an individual item and have come up with the figure X which is the same as the approx taxes and duties on AU$1000. Hence why...if its under AU$1000 and coming thru post....its just not worth it financially for the government to charge duty and taxes.
And if they did want to start charging taxes and duty on goods under AU$1000 I think Customs would have to do a massive upgrade in resources, assets and staff to handle the volume of goods they would have to deal with.
This is just my opinion btw.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Isn't it the same issue for everyone else who works somewhere?

To an extent.

There are far lower costs in training and provision for rework.

Apprentice stuffs it up, tradesman fixes it and apprentice learns how to do it correctly.

Tradesman stuffs it up, new tradesman.


It is easy to see who are employers and who are employees here.

Running a business is FAR more expensive and complicated that most think.

[04redxr8]

Originally Posted by trippytaka

So true! Look at what Bonds did. I think we're in for serious blowback from the parity situation.

Look what Bonds did? Are you serious? Look what the Unions did, look what the idiot employees did. They drove the companies wages bill so high that the prices HAD to go up. Then, because the prices were too high, Aussies stopped buying Bonds products.

Great story about greed right there. Try blaming it at the right group though.

I am sick to death of every leech employee who feels they are worth so much money, yet can never tell you what they bring to your business. They can never show you how they increase your sales, or your profit margins, but yet, they are worth more money. This country is going to be bankrupted. It will be sent under by our Government, (who cannot manage a budget, and think every problem is solved with money), and the greedy morons, who are happy to send all their wages overseas.

I have seen wages grow to a ridiculous level over the years, while businesses are being pressured to lower their prices. This why so many businesses are failing. The employees are killing them with wages bills, and then the consumers, are spending overseas.

I hope those wage earners who love spending overseas realise that as wages and business running costs start to go up too high, that many businesses will just shed employees. These employees are really just buffers. They are there to keep a job for the boss should things go pear shaped. Just think, if all the small business owners out there sacked all their staff and did things on the own. Much more people unemployed, would mean less people spending money at larger businesses, means staff there would be culled too.

If you think it can't happen, it is happening right now. We are in for so much pain in the next few years. It won't be from the GFC, but rather our current obsession with excess, and the constant need to pay less and less for it. We have forgotten the last recession and are now believing that greed is again good. Unfortunately, this country is going to hell in a hand basket.

So keep spending overseas, support the Chinese, and one day when they own all of us, don't bother complaining. It won't be allowed.

[ELGT4me]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

Look what Bonds did? Are you serious? Look what the Unions did, look what the idiot employees did. They drove the companies wages bill so high that the prices HAD to go up. Then, because the prices were too high, Aussies stopped buying Bonds products.

Great story about greed right there. Try blaming it at the right group though.

I am sick to death of every leech employee who feels they are worth so much money, yet can never tell you what they bring to your business. They can never show you how they increase your sales, or your profit margins, but yet, they are worth more money. This country is going to be bankrupted. It will be sent under by our Government, (who cannot manage a budget, and think every problem is solved with money), and the greedy morons, who are happy to send all their wages overseas.

I have seen wages grow to a ridiculous level over the years, while businesses are being pressured to lower their prices. This why so many businesses are failing. The employees are killing them with wages bills, and then the consumers, are spending overseas.

I hope those wage earners who love spending overseas realise that as wages and business running costs start to go up too high, that many businesses will just shed employees. These employees are really just buffers. They are there to keep a job for the boss should things go pear shaped. Just think, if all the small business owners out there sacked all their staff and did things on the own. Much more people unemployed, would mean less people spending money at larger businesses, means staff there would be culled too.

If you think it can't happen, it is happening right now. We are in for so much pain in the next few years. It won't be from the GFC, but rather our current obsession with excess, and the constant need to pay less and less for it. We have forgotten the last recession and are now believing that greed is again good. Unfortunately, this country is going to hell in a hand basket.

So keep spending overseas, support the Chinese, and one day when they own all of us, don't bother complaining. It won't be allowed.

Gee mate, have a look @ bank profits & the mining sectors profit, before you go denigrating the worker. As well you know, companies & banks, pay the least tax, Joe Mugg in the street gets hit with everything, fuel up @ Christmas, no cheap flights @ Christmas, seafood, fruit & veg mysteriously gets dearer @ Christmas & Easter. Who do you think pays for the unemployment benefits of others? It ain't the banks or mining companies.

[04redxr8]

If our banks didn't have the profits they did, we would have sunk at the beginning of the GFC. Our Country as whole is so poorely managed, I am surprised that we are still here. The average Aussie mentality is largely to blame.

We all put our hands out demanding more money, then refuse to spend it here when we have it. The real culprit is our Government though. But we never seem to unite to bring them down, do we? We just continue to ask for more money and then send it overseas. How long do you think this can last?

Little Johnny Howard changed the cross ownership laws that allowed Coles and Woollies to sell petrol. They then moved into Liquor, now hardware, (combined with insurance holdings). Where to next?

Our Government sold us out a long time ago. Seems no one realises that. Big business has big overheads. Still most people don't get it.

Meh, I give up. Keep your heads buried, I'll wait for the civil war to come here and hopefully support Flappists business then.

[04redxr8]

Originally Posted by ELGT4me

Gee mate, have a look @ bank profits & the mining sectors profit, before you go denigrating the worker. As well you know, companies & banks, pay the least tax, Joe Mugg in the street gets hit with everything, fuel up @ Christmas, no cheap flights @ Christmas, seafood, fruit & veg mysteriously gets dearer @ Christmas & Easter. Who do you think pays for the unemployment benefits of others? It ain't the banks or mining companies.

BTW its only about 5% of the population that are business owners. Think about it.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

Meh, I give up. Keep your heads buried, I'll wait for the civil war to come here...

Just wow, youre off ya rocker.

Revolution in advanced economies was possible maybe as little as 100 years ago, Id argue not even then. Some might argue Ned Kelly tried to do something like it at Glenrowan. But unless you can get your hands on a fleet of Apache choppers, an aircraft carrier or two with its fleet of aircraft, and some other high tech military hardware, youre screwed before you begin. You wouldnt be fighting the Aus armed forces alone, which is just wow in itself, but its allies too. Not that it would get to a point where the allies were needed anyway, you havent got a snowballs chance in hell in a civil war, youre way too out-gunned. We live in a world very different from 17th century England or 18th century America or 19th century France, or even early 20th century Russia. Unless of course we are truly running in the realm of fantasy and the army have turned, in which case its a coup.

But go ahead, Ill sit by and watch on TV as you try to load your musket for your second shot at thin air while someone miles away guides a rocket ala x-box360 somewhere the sun dont shine. Civil war ...ROFL. Unless you didnt mean civil war, and what you meant to say was an invasion by the Chinese? In which case, ROTFFLMAO. Yes yes, I know they are large, many people and large military numbers, but they arent capable of mounting an attack on us, we have friends, very big and well tooled up friends. Regardless, if we stopped buying Chinese that wouldnt stop the juggernaut that is their economy. We would just have less money in our pockets, and the likes of Gerry would have an extra billion or two to do whatever they want with, including opening a factory in China.


And your earlier rant about wages, wow, read a book. There are many pressures on wages. For example, the options an employee has to change industry and the employers position in regard to replacing them. So, some of the wage pressure comes from other industries too.

An extension of that pressure on the employee to gain a higher wage, is the cost of say paying a builder to build their house. As builders get more money from cashed up miners (no offence, good on you if either of those are your industry), builders can ask for more from everyone else including the guys working machines in factories, until there are too many builders (some of these extra builders or labourers could be the ex-employees of a factory not prepared to offer a better incentive to stay) or the boom busts. The higher wages in one industry forces other industries to follow suit until equilibrium is regained. This economic equilibrium is a very important part of an economy. Its not man made, its a natural phenomenon of economics. Maybe you should read up on economic equilibrium.

You dont think people like Gerry are unaware of this do you? They also want a slice of the mining pie, and any other boomings industrys pie too.

Its a big merry go round, and theres no reason that employees should be held accountable for what a business decides is its model, and that model fails due to events outside of the employees hands, like those listed above. If the employee doesnt fight for fair pay in the context of other wages in the economy, he falls behind. If the industry needs slave labour to survive, it shouldnt survive. It should move to where slave labour is the norm.

Same goes for buyers. Its all supply and demand, whether its the materials that go into goods, the goods themselves, the money to finance it, or the remuneration of the participants such as management and employees.


Puleeease, my heart bleeds for him.

[04redxr8]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Just wow, youre off ya rocker.

Revolution in advanced economies was possible maybe as little as 100 years ago, Id argue not even then. Some might argue Ned Kelly tried to do something like it at Glenrowan. But unless you can get your hands on a fleet of Apache choppers, an aircraft carrier or two with its fleet of aircraft, and some other high tech military hardware, youre screwed before you begin. You wouldnt be fighting the Aus armed forces alone, which is just wow in itself, but its allies too. Not that it would get to a point where the allies were needed anyway, you havent got a snowballs chance in hell in a civil war, youre way too out-gunned. We live in a world very different from 17th century England or 18th century America or 19th century France, or even early 20th century Russia. Unless of course we are truly running in the realm of fantasy and the army have turned, in which case its a coup.

But go ahead, Ill sit by and watch on TV as you try to load your musket for your second shot at thin air while someone miles away guides a rocket ala x-box360 somewhere the sun dont shine. Civil war ...ROFL. Unless you didnt mean civil war, and what you meant to say was an invasion by the Chinese? In which case, ROTFFLMAO. Yes yes, I know they are large, many people and large military numbers, but they arent capable of mounting an attack on us, we have friends, very big and well tooled up friends. Regardless, if we stopped buying Chinese that wouldnt stop the juggernaut that is their economy. We would just have less money in our pockets, and the likes of Gerry would have an extra billion or two to do whatever they want with, including opening a factory in China.


And your earlier rant about wages, wow, read a book. There are many pressures on wages. For example, the options an employee has to change industry and the employers position in regard to replacing them. So, some of the wage pressure comes from other industries too.

An extension of that pressure on the employee to gain a higher wage, is the cost of say paying a builder to build their house. As builders get more money from cashed up miners (no offence, good on you if either of those are your industry), builders can ask for more from everyone else including the guys working machines in factories, until there are too many builders (some of these extra builders or labourers could be the ex-employees of a factory not prepared to offer a better incentive to stay) or the boom busts. The higher wages in one industry forces other industries to follow suit until equilibrium is regained. This economic equilibrium is a very important part of an economy. Its not man made, its a natural phenomenon of economics. Maybe you should read up on economic equilibrium.

You dont think people like Gerry are unaware of this do you? They also want a slice of the mining pie, and any other boomings industrys pie too.

Its a big merry go round, and theres no reason that employees should be held accountable for what a business decides is its model, and that model fails due to events outside of the employees hands, like those listed above. If the employee doesnt fight for fair pay in the context of other wages in the economy, he falls behind. If the industry needs slave labour to survive, it shouldnt survive. It should move to where slave labour is the norm.

Same goes for buyers. Its all supply and demand, whether its the materials that go into goods, the goods themselves, the money to finance it, or the remuneration of the participants such as management and employees.


Puleeease, my heart bleeds for him.

Fair post, However you seem to be missing a point that our economy is growing so large and spinning out of control.

We are borrowing money to put into it, and then sending it overseas. Not enough of it is staying here. Eventually the circle will get too large and it will bust. When that happens, many people will lose their homes and all else that they have worked for.

Another aspect to consider, is that we are now a multicultural nation. We have a lot people from other countries that will fight their Government if they feel they are getting a raw deal. You do realise that we do out number our Government and that our armed forces live in the same over taxed country as the rest of us? Its happening in countries all around the world right now, why not here?

As for the attack on the construction industry. How many builders and contractors have lost money through clients not paying? How many have lost money from clients going bust midway through a project? There is hardly any contractor in the construction industry who has not lost money in some way shape or form. We have the worst rate for it.

Do you realise that the builder and his contractors actually carry costs during construction? That in some instances we don't get paid for a month or 2 after the work is completed. Any idea how much cost is actually involved in building a house? Any idea how much our overheads are?

Sounds like jealousy when you come out and bag and industry you think is making too much money.

[74_XB_Ute]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

Another aspect to consider, is that we are now a multicultural nation. We have a lot people from other countries that will fight their Government if they feel they are getting a raw deal. You do realise that we do out number our Government and that our armed forces live in the same over taxed country as the rest of us? Its happening in countries all around the world right now, why not here?

Because Australia is a developed and civilised nation which is why we dont run around like 2 bit mulisha with pink tracky daks and an AK-47's held together with copper wire and shoe laces. Do you figure for one second that the Aussie Military is going to side with a sector of migrants because they are getting a raw deal. We didnt even get to elect our own Prime Minister...it was decided by a few independents....but we didnt go out and riot and start looting shops and rolling police cars over did we. Your foolish to believe that Australians will cop or even tolerate that kinda political rebelious bull$#@t that other nations carry on with. We just get on with it and deal with whatever comes our way! But definately the Aussie Military will never roll over on its own government....never gonna happen!!

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

Fair post, However you seem to be missing a point that our economy is growing so large and spinning out of control.

We are borrowing money to put into it, and then sending it overseas. Not enough of it is staying here. Eventually the circle will get too large and it will bust. When that happens, many people will lose their homes and all else that they have worked for.

Another aspect to consider, is that we are now a multicultural nation. We have a lot people from other countries that will fight their Government if they feel they are getting a raw deal. You do realise that we do out number our Government and that our armed forces live in the same over taxed country as the rest of us? Its happening in countries all around the world right now, why not here?

As for the attack on the construction industry. How many builders and contractors have lost money through clients not paying? How many have lost money from clients going bust midway through a project? There is hardly any contractor in the construction industry who has not lost money in some way shape or form. We have the worst rate for it.

Do you realise that the builder and his contractors actually carry costs during construction? That in some instances we don't get paid for a month or 2 after the work is completed. Any idea how much cost is actually involved in building a house? Any idea how much our overheads are?

Sounds like jealousy when you come out and bag and industry you think is making too much money.

Thats not what I said is it? I didnt attack the industry, but you can keep white knighting it if thats your thing. Building is one industry, responding to the same market pressures any other industry faces. Accountants did well out of the GST. I said, no offence, good on you if either mining or building is your industry. Did you miss that bit, or does it just suit you to ignore it? Im also aware the building industry participants carry costs for unscrupulous property developers too, and sometimes never get paid. You know, the developers with the big bucks tucked away out of reach. In the meantime the contractor uses credit to pay their own debts incurring interest. Yes, Im well aware of it. And just like the costs of shoplifting, that cost gets passed on to the consumer.

But it is funny you state the economy is out of control, then bork at the notion the housing industry has played a large part in house prices going up insane amounts over the last decade or so as if it is completely innocent of the problem you mention. Its a result of increased costs, supplies and labour etc. Oh of course thats ALL it is. It couldnt be that a builder who has a choice of builds to do in a high demand low supply market, wont pick the one that offers the most reward. No they operate a charity and do it because the potential client is a family man and needs a home for his kiddies. It couldnt be that these type of markets lead to higher demand for existing properties pushing the price of them up too giving builders a little more scope to raise prices. And yes, Real Estate agents also claim their piece of the pie too, along with many others like the IT guy setting up their website, or the bank financing the agent, builder and IT guru.


It wouldnt have anything to do with all those property value increases leading to home owners refinancing to enjoy some of the increased unrealised equity their new found "on paper" wealth has presented them with. Im aware, builders charge what the market pays, just as a buyer of some online goods is making the most of his opportunity to save a few bucks. And miners are but one example of people with plenty cash given the boom and rightly want to enjoy the fruits of their labour too. Which includes paying higher prices for new homes and renovating old ones etc, buying boats and spreading some of that wealth, resulting in guess what, pressure on the price of everything else. Price is set by the market, the market with enough cash to increase demand.

But all that credit has nothing to do with it right? Housing industry is completely innocent right? Its someone elses fault, I know, lets blame govco for not putting up interest rates, or using another mechanism to slow the economy enough. Oh wait thats no good, high interest rates or less cash in the economy make the building industry scream about the lost work. Better blame those who dont buy from an Aussie, an Aussie selling products that arent bloody Aussie in the first place. No, Ive got another idea, lets blame the stimulus package, the same stimulus that Gerry was all over, "buy my stuff, its great, lets spend our way out." The topic of the thread, Gerry saving the economy and now being threatend by online sales. That same Gerry, the one that was all for the government debt that bought LCDs and Plasmas?

You didnt happen to offer a service whereby if the client promised not to collect the first home buyers grant, you would drop the price by the same amount did you? You know, doing your part not to add to national debt? No, you collected on that national debt. You didnt protest by changing industry so your moral outrage could be lessened? No?


Im not surprised you completely missed all the economic reality of the post though, and instead took it personally. Seems economics 101 is somewhat over your head.


Just as its not the builders fault the banks encourage people to refinance (some of that credit you mentioned), and the owner wants to get a better boat, or a holiday or whatever. Its not the builders fault he can earn a bit better than the average builder 30 yrs ago. Its also not reasonable to blame the guy who struggles to pull 20% below the average wage from trying to save a few bucks with online sales. Its certainly not reasonable to suggest they are the ones sending the economy down the gurgler.

We all have a hand in it, and that has bugger all to do with our everyday buying habits. Online sales arent squat in the big picture. Yes the numbers sound large, they have so many 0's. But put in perspective of the numbers in the entire economy, its small potatoes, and really only benefits the likes of Gerry.

[GreenR]

Originally Posted by 04redxr8

Great story about greed right there.

I am sick to death of every leech employee who feels they are worth so much money

The employees are killing them with wages bills

I hope those wage earners who love spending overseas realise that as wages and business running costs start to go up too high, that many businesses will just shed employees.

So we should (as an employee) ensure our wage is fair because I don't think you realize how much money some of the large retailers profit. Employees getting a wage rise and the retailers increasing price for products is not a direct result. It is the decision by that retailer because they want to keep the same profit margin.

Unfortunately some retailers (ie the big supermarket chains) can get away with keeping (and actually increasing) profit level as other business costs rise by passing this onto the consumer.
However when it comes to other items such as electronics, we can easily source from overseas for less. People like Harvey cannot adapt to a new era and continue to make the same profit he used to/wants to so therefore has a whinge.