Damn Cyclists

[Thankfull]

I used to do a lot of Cycling about 10 years ago....I always tried to be carefull in traffic, and have good lighting at Night and wear reflective clothing.

I think it is stupidity to ride a bike on any road these days, unless you are part of an organised event with road closures.

Too many people now use the road with cars and trucks these days, and the roads are only getting busier.

If you are going to ride a Bike on Australias roads today, then you have to be prepared to accept the consequences of the risk you are taking.

Time to trade in your push bike for an excercise bike...or accept the consequences of the risk you are taking....

Fact... the law may say that you can share the road with cars and trucks, but in the event of an accident, the motorist only needs to worry about having a dent removed from a panel.

end of story....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Compared to a bike cars have no right to be on the roads or even exsist. So Since I beleive this I have no problem with giving room for bikes and letting them do whatever they have to do, imho God is on their side :P.f I were prime minsister I'd ban all cars as of tomorrow and make everyone ride everywhere (this is why I'm not P.M). But imagine how fit the girls would be

I think I wont be able to get to work on time if i have to ride 70Km.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Compared to a bike cars have no right to be on the roads or even exsist. So Since I beleive this I have no problem with giving room for bikes and letting them do whatever they have to do, imho God is on their side :P.f I were prime minsister I'd ban all cars as of tomorrow and make everyone ride everywhere (this is why I'm not P.M). But imagine how fit the girls would be

Yeah that would work.... Not, its just plain stupid.

[Pinch]

Originally Posted by Thankfull

I used to do a lot of Cycling about 10 years ago....I always tried to be carefull in traffic, and have good lighting at Night and wear reflective clothing.

I think it is stupidity to ride a bike on any road these days, unless you are part of an organised event with road closures.

Too many people now use the road with cars and trucks these days, and the roads are only getting busier.

If you are going to ride a Bike on Australias roads today, then you have to be prepared to accept the consequences of the risk you are taking.

Time to trade in your push bike for an excercise bike...or accept the consequences of the risk you are taking....

Fact... the law may say that you can share the road with cars and trucks, but in the event of an accident, the motorist only needs to worry about having a dent removed from a panel.

end of story....

True, but doesn't make it right - or obsolve the motorist of any legal or moral responsibility. Higher traffic levels won't be a defence in any court.

[Thankfull]

Right or wrong....those are the facts of life...

[Dave R]

I hate it when the cyclists claim that they have the right to share the road with us, but when it comes to red lights, they cycle right through. If they are riding on the ROAD, I'd appreciate it if they obey the ROAD RULES. You sit there going 20km/h in a 70 zone behind some cyclist, then finally get the chance to overtake him... then you get stuck at the lights. He rides right on though. Then once again you are stuck behind him going a quarter of the speed limit. I understand why some people lose their patience with them. Especially around Kensington in Sydney - there are cycle lanes on the left, yet you get them riding in the middle of the road. It's like they are asking you to hit them.

[dandandandan]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I hate it when the cyclists claim that they have the right to share the road with us, but when it comes to red lights, they cycle right through. If they are riding on the ROAD, I'd appreciate it if they obey the ROAD RULES. You sit there going 20km/h in a 70 zone behind some cyclist, then finally get the chance to overtake him... then you get stuck at the lights. He rides right on though. Then once again you are stuck behind him going a quarter of the speed limit. I understand why some people lose their patience with them. Especially around Kensington in Sydney - there are cycle lanes on the left, yet you get them riding in the middle of the road. It's like they are asking you to hit them.

So how often does this actually happen to you? Daily? Weekly? Once in a blue moon?

I hate it when DRIVERS believe they are kings/queens of the road and act like they are above other road users by breaking the law, driving in an unsafe manner, running red lights, speeding through pedestrian heavy areas, do burn outs, run over people... But you know what? There are bad apples in every bunch.

[torbirdie]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I hate it when the cyclists claim that they have the right to share the road with us, but when it comes to red lights, they cycle right through. If they are riding on the ROAD, I'd appreciate it if they obey the ROAD RULES. You sit there going 20km/h in a 70 zone behind some cyclist, then finally get the chance to overtake him... then you get stuck at the lights. He rides right on though. Then once again you are stuck behind him going a quarter of the speed limit. I understand why some people lose their patience with them. Especially around Kensington in Sydney - there are cycle lanes on the left, yet you get them riding in the middle of the road. It's like they are asking you to hit them.

I agree. No excuse for going through red lights, and I as a motorist share your frustration when a cyclist goes to the front of the line at lights and you have to negotiate getting past them all again.

However, this behaviour is really only to counteract the bad experiences that most cyclists dont want to repeat due to non thinking motorists, being hit and forced off the road.

I believe as a cyclist we have a right to travel in a lane without sharing it with a whole car! So at the lights we should be able to wait behind a car, not beside a car in the same lane, but the abuse from people in cars makes it very difficult to do this, or abuse when you dont move off as fast as a car can.
Would you wait in line patiently behind bicycle at a set of lights and not complain when you cant do you usual whiplash takeoffs or would you insist they move over so you can squeeze past them?(lean on horn and shout abuse)

While there is plenty of room when stationary to share the lane, it makes it very difficult when it is time to move off. Anyone who has ridden a bike will know its hard to maintain a ruler straight line when getting going, especially if one is also trying to get their feet back in the toe clips, cleats etc. Here lies the risk of getting cleaned up as cars accelerate hard past our hips in the same lane when taking off from the lights.

The solution is to go to the front of the line, where one can lean up against a traffic light with feet on the pedals and get a car lengths start across the intersection and not run the risk of getting squeezed into the gutter by some clueless people in cars.

[MO]

Someone mentioned a while back that they have to train on the roads for their comp road races.
I seem to remember my workplace gym had an exercise bike that you could dial up the 'Tour de France' or any other cycling event on.
So just like acft pilots train with the simulator for the stuff you want to do.
Simple problem solvered!
Anyway won't be long now the way some are getting a bit edgy.

[MO]

Originally Posted by auxr

Wow, this thread just keeps on going - to help alleviate the problem, I have now taken myself off the street and will now be commuting 3.5klms to the train station by way of a helicopter - that sorts out the problem for me, dont know about the rest of you guys though

Of course you'll be lodging the flight plan c/w sar time with the local airport control twr etc.

[Streets]

I'm only 22 and my I-HATE-CYCLISTS phase has been and gone. What's taking you guys so long? All this banging on is getting old. They're a part of the many different kind of vehicles we share the road with. Time to build a bridge fellas because all this impotent raging is not going to be any good for your arteries.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by MO

Someone mentioned a while back that they have to train on the roads for their comp road races.
I seem to remember my workplace gym had an exercise bike that you could dial up the 'Tour de France' or any other cycling event on.
So just like acft pilots train with the simulator for the stuff you want to do.
Simple problem solvered!
Anyway won't be long now the way some are getting a bit edgy.

Would you train for football or athletics or any other sport involving running, only on a treadmill?

This thread just demonstrates the degredation of society as a whole unfortunately. No one has patience or manners anymore. People just need to relax and dont be so selfish. Other people like doing other things and have other interests. Everyone just needs to be a little more accepting.

[RAREV8]

I have 4 cars, a boat and a trailer, all that require registering and insuring. I also have a bike as does my wife.
I cycle on the roads occasionally and stay as far to the left as I can and elect to ride on cycle paths where they are provided.
I have been irritated by cyclists doing the wrong thing much as I have been irritated by people in other collectives and factions of society.
It is interesting (read: worrying) to see how drivers react to cyclists when I am out on my bike doing the right thing.

I'll put this out there and NO, I do not expect nor care for anyone trying to justify themselves in response to this:

To those of you who just posted "get them off the road" etc and who seem to have grievances against cyclists using the road even in a legal and correct manner, I will bet my last dollar that your attitude is the same to slow drivers, trucks etc and I will happily assume that you drive recklessly and without due care due to your impatience.
I really hope that you don't end up with a death or injury on your hands due to an accident caused directly by your lack of patience. This kind of attitude to other road users is short-sighted, arrogant and bloody dangerous.

Yes, I think that a large group of cyclists 3 abreast (often more) paying no attention to the traffic behind them is damn annoying but I see far more cyclists doing the right thing than the wrong thing. I only wish that I could say the same for the drivers on Sydney roads.

Take a breath and relax, enjoy whatever is playing on your radio in the car and give cyclists enough room when passing them- if everyone did this, they would probably start to respect drivers more too!

[Director]

I love my TREK nearly as much as my XB!
I should love the TREK more because it stops and goes around corners better

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by dandandandan

So how often does this actually happen to you? Daily? Weekly? Once in a blue moon?

I hate it when DRIVERS believe they are kings/queens of the road and act like they are above other road users by breaking the law, driving in an unsafe manner, running red lights, speeding through pedestrian heavy areas, do burn outs, run over people... But you know what? There are bad apples in every bunch.

A few times a week at least.

A bad apple in a car is a nuisance. A bad apple on a bike is going to end up under someone's tyres - ruining their life and the life of the poor bastard that hits them. Drivers ARE the kings/queens of the road. Cars are made within design rules for the road - like indicators etc. and most importantly PROTECTION. Bikes are a frame and 2 wheels driven by leg power designed with no protection at all besides a helmet. They don't even pay rego; get off the goddam road. Cyclists should stick to the cycle lane or atleast obey the road rules if they decide to cycle at 20 in a 70 zone making me late for work.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by xy500

whatever almighty biking and motoring expert!
so marathon runners run on the road in city traffic do they now? thats a first.
i feel sorry for you that it takes 1-2 hours to get out of the city, last time i was in your area it took about 15min to arrive in semi rural surrounds.

So you know what goes on in SW WA? and perth apparently doesnt have as many cyclists?

Your missing the point a little i think, i thought we were talking about annoying cyclists werent we?

Obviously you did not see Russ's warning.

First off, when I read your first post regarding emissions of cyclists, I really thought you were joking. That is why I wrote what I did in reply, I miss read your intent in your post. Sorry about that, I did not realise you were serious.

Secondly, my great great grandfather was the first anglosaxon baby born in the Yarloop area and every member up to my mother since was born in the Yarloop and Busselton area. I lived my early years down there (Jarrahwood) and have spent a lot of time down there since moving away.

Added to this I have lived in WA for 20 years of my life, of which I spent approximately 14 years of it involved in either cycling or triathlon, so yeah I have a very good understanding of the Perth cycle scene. But then I am very sure you would be able to tell me all about the wednesday morning TBE ride or the old papa's ride.

I did not say marathon runners train through the Perth CBD, but they do train in the metro area, at least they did when I used to run with the WA Marathon Club running through the Nedlands, Perry Lakes, Claremont and Subiaco areas.

By the way, I am a motorist of 20 years experience, numerous advanced driving courses including civilian, emergency services and military and a full time Paramedic where much of my job is driving operating in a busy inner city station. Does that qualify me to have an opinion on motoring?

Have I now qualified myself as one who has a little bit of a clue about what is involved in training and cycling, including in WA? I hope so.

Anyway, sorry for the misunderstanding and happy motoring and/or cycling!

[Ibrox90]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Obviously you did not see Russ's warning.

First off, when I read your first post regarding emissions of cyclists, I really thought you were joking. That is why I wrote what I did in reply, I miss read your intent in your post. Sorry about that, I did not realise you were serious.

Secondly, my great great grandfather was the first anglosaxon baby born in the Yarloop area and every member up to my mother since was born in the Yarloop and Busselton area. I lived my early years down there (Jarrahwood) and have spent a lot of time down there since moving away.

Added to this I have lived in WA for 20 years of my life, of which I spent approximately 14 years of it involved in either cycling or triathlon, so yeah I have a very good understanding of the Perth cycle scene. But then I am very sure you would be able to tell me all about the wednesday morning TBE ride or the old papa's ride.

I did not say marathon runners train through the Perth CBD, but they do train in the metro area, at least they did when I used to run with the WA Marathon Club running through the Nedlands, Perry Lakes, Claremont and Subiaco areas.

By the way, I am a motorist of 20 years experience, numerous advanced driving courses including civilian, emergency services and military and a full time Paramedic where much of my job is driving operating in a busy inner city station. Does that qualify me to have an opinion on motoring?

Have I now qualified myself as one who has a little bit of a clue about what is involved in training and cycling, including in WA? I hope so.

Anyway, sorry for the misunderstanding and happy motoring and/or cycling!

My my talk about laying the smack. I'd Add to the rep but it wont let me.


Back to cyclists I myself haven't had many run ins, Except when i used to work night shift at the Casino on the way home near Hallett cove (for those who knwo the area) coming along the road just as the sun pears over the hill so to lyra clad individuals

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

A few times a week at least.

A bad apple in a car is a nuisance. A bad apple on a bike is going to end up under someone's tyres - ruining their life and the life of the poor bastard that hits them. Drivers ARE the kings/queens of the road. Cars are made within design rules for the road - like indicators etc. and most importantly PROTECTION. Bikes are a frame and 2 wheels driven by leg power designed with no protection at all besides a helmet. They don't even pay rego; get off the goddam road. Cyclists should stick to the cycle lane or atleast obey the road rules if they decide to cycle at 20 in a 70 zone making me late for work.

Ok, lets try this.

The average large family car weighs 1700kg, the average bike weighs 12kg, wear on the road is a direct relationship of ground pressure and speed among other factors. Since the car weighs 141.66 times what the bike weighs plus a lot more speed on average, lets use that factor to calculate the rego payable on a bike. So the rego on our V8 ute in QLD is $900 per year, so lets use that figure for the exercise. So if we take the $900 and divide by a factor of 141.66, we get a result of $6.35 per year.

So if we round that up, to say $10, will you let me ride in peace as I pay a price that is in line with the damage I cause to the roads.

Hell, if it would buy me respect and safety like many here suggest it would, I would even pay $200 a year. The sad fact is rego for bikes will not change driver attitudes. As has been said, the issue is not rego, it is the fact that certain road users dare to delay others form their busy, busy lives. The rego is just something they cling to because they believe it somehow qualifies their belief.

How about this for an idea? Every bike sold in Australia be hit with a 10% levy that is only used to construct bicycle only use bike lanes. That way we pay for the road we use, motorist can have their road and shut up, pedestrians can have their foot path and shut up, and we can all be happy. I am all for it!

[xy500]

Originally Posted by naddis01

This thread just demonstrates the degredation of society as a whole unfortunately. No one has patience or manners anymore.

what a load.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Ok, lets try this.

The average large family car weighs 1700kg, the average bike weighs 12kg, wear on the road is a direct relationship of ground pressure and speed among other factors. Since the car weighs 141.66 times what the bike weighs plus a lot more speed on average, lets use that factor to calculate the rego payable on a bike. So the rego on our V8 ute in QLD is $900 per year, so lets use that figure for the exercise. So if we take the $900 and divide by a factor of 141.66, we get a result of $6.35 per year.

So if we round that up, to say $10, will you let me ride in peace as I pay a price that is in line with the damage I cause to the roads.

Hell, if it would buy me respect and safety like many here suggest it would, I would even pay $200 a year. The sad fact is rego for bikes will not change driver attitudes. As has been said, the issue is not rego, it is the fact that certain road users dare to delay others form their busy, busy lives. The rego is just something they cling to because they believe it somehow qualifies their belief.

How about this for an idea? Every bike sold in Australia be hit with a 10% levy that is only used to construct bicycle only use bike lanes. That way we pay for the road we use, motorist can have their road and shut up, pedestrians can have their foot path and shut up, and we can all be happy. I am all for it!

I don't think anyone is concerned with the damage a bike causes to the road. The issue that gets people fired up is courtesy. With all of the pro-bike bunch wailing about "drivers" not being polite enough to bikes, ever thought about the cyclists who will selfishly let cars bank up behind them as they go less than 20 in a 60, 70 or 80 zone?? They want to be treated equally on the road, yet they do not obey the rules so why should they be treated as anything more than a nuisance? They will ride up on the footpath in crawling traffic when it suits them then slot back into the traffic further up. They will run through red lights in what is surely an acknowledgement that they think the road rules don't apply to them. These are the same people that claim they "share" the road? Unblievable.

The lack of damage a bike causes to the road does not negate the fact that they are a rolling roadblock that doesn't belong on the road. I think the issue that people have with the rego situation is that they are PAYING to use the road, whereas a bike can pay nothing and cause mayhem when people are just trying to get home to their families or get to work on time. This is why we have cycle lanes, but there just aren't enough of them. And then you have the pinheads that ride their bikes in the middle of the road even when there is a cycle lane alongside. Hopeless.

I do appreciate the "good" cyclists out there that will ride as close to the left as possible, or even jump over to the footpath when the bank of cars behind them reaches armageddon levels. But for the others who really couldn't care about anyone else but themselves, they do not deserve my courtesy; but they get it for free anyway.

[xy500]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I don't think anyone is concerned with the damage a bike causes to the road. The issue that gets people fired up is courtesy. With all of the pro-bike bunch wailing about "drivers" not being polite enough to bikes, ever thought about the cyclists who will selfishly let cars bank up behind them as they go less than 20 in a 60, 70 or 80 zone?? They want to be treated equally on the road, yet they do not obey the rules so why should they be treated as anything more than a nuisance? They will ride up on the footpath in crawling traffic when it suits them then slot back into the traffic further up. They will run through red lights in what is surely an acknowledgement that they think the road rules don't apply to them. These are the same people that claim they "share" the road? Unblievable.

The lack of damage a bike causes to the road does not negate the fact that they are a rolling roadblock that doesn't belong on the road. I think the issue that people have with the rego situation is that they are PAYING to use the road, whereas a bike can pay nothing and cause mayhem when people are just trying to get home to their families or get to work on time. This is why we have cycle lanes, but there just aren't enough of them. And then you have the pinheads that ride their bikes in the middle of the road even when there is a cycle lane alongside. Hopeless.

I do appreciate the "good" cyclists out there that will ride as close to the left as possible, or even jump over to the footpath when the bank of cars behind them reaches armageddon levels. But for the others who really couldn't care about anyone else but themselves, they do not deserve my courtesy; but they get it for free anyway.

well said

[ILLaViTaR]

Yeah almost squashed one on my bonnet.

Unbelievable how it happened too. In peak hour crawling like 20k's he's on a side street and simply turns onto the main rd I'm on and cycled next to me, didn't see him until he was in front of me. Lucky I saw him, any longer I wouldn't hit him.

[dandandandan]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

A few times a week at least.

A bad apple in a car is a nuisance. A bad apple on a bike is going to end up under someone's tyres - ruining their life and the life of the poor bastard that hits them.

Ummmm I'm pretty sure a stupid driver in a car results in many more fatalities than a stupid cyclist on a bike.

I love how those that are against cyclist sharing the road talk about courtesy, when it is the non courteous driver who is the real danger to other road users.

Fact is the roads are shared between different modes of transport. Get used to it. Learn to drive safely and if you can't, or you're prepared to risk somebody elses' life and limb so you can get home 30 seconds quicker or have a grunge against anyone not on a motorised vehicle then you need to re-evaluate the appropriateness of you operating any kind of vehicle.

P.S All the things you find annoying about cyclist are true for those that drive cars/ trucks too, just remember that. The stupid risks that a minority of cyclist take are also taken by drivers. Except when a driver stuffs up, people die, whether it'd be a cyclist, pedestrian etc.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by dandandandan

Ummmm I'm pretty sure a stupid driver in a car results in many more fatalities than a stupid cyclist on a bike.

I love how those that are against cyclist sharing the road talk about courtesy, when it is the non courteous driver who is the real danger to other road users.

Fact is the roads are shared between different modes of transport. Get used to it. Learn to drive safely and if you can't, or you're prepared to risk somebody elses' life and limb so you can get home 30 seconds quicker or have a grunge against anyone not on a motorised vehicle then you need to re-evaluate the appropriateness of you operating any kind of vehicle.

P.S All the things you find annoying about cyclist are true for those that drive cars/ trucks too, just remember that. The stupid risks that a minority of cyclist take are also taken by drivers. Except when a driver stuffs up, people die, whether it'd be a cyclist, pedestrian etc.

Obviously you've never experienced cyclists first hand.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I don't think anyone is concerned with the damage a bike causes to the road. The issue that gets people fired up is courtesy. With all of the pro-bike bunch wailing about "drivers" not being polite enough to bikes, ever thought about the cyclists who will selfishly let cars bank up behind them as they go less than 20 in a 60, 70 or 80 zone?? They want to be treated equally on the road, yet they do not obey the rules so why should they be treated as anything more than a nuisance? They will ride up on the footpath in crawling traffic when it suits them then slot back into the traffic further up. They will run through red lights in what is surely an acknowledgement that they think the road rules don't apply to them. These are the same people that claim they "share" the road? Unblievable.

The lack of damage a bike causes to the road does not negate the fact that they are a rolling roadblock that doesn't belong on the road. I think the issue that people have with the rego situation is that they are PAYING to use the road, whereas a bike can pay nothing and cause mayhem when people are just trying to get home to their families or get to work on time. This is why we have cycle lanes, but there just aren't enough of them. And then you have the pinheads that ride their bikes in the middle of the road even when there is a cycle lane alongside. Hopeless.

I do appreciate the "good" cyclists out there that will ride as close to the left as possible, or even jump over to the footpath when the bank of cars behind them reaches armageddon levels. But for the others who really couldn't care about anyone else but themselves, they do not deserve my courtesy; but they get it for free anyway.

You sit there and rave on about how bad cyclists are, leading to you coming to the decision they should not be on the road. You cite occasions of where a bad cyclist has delayed you and therefore your reasoning is justified in your mind. Well those cyclists you cite are hated by people like me for the exact same reason. In fact I probably hate them more than you as their actions provoke actions in drivers that make my life hell, from people with attitudes like yours.

Well, something to think about, for every cyclist you can refer to that has done the wrong thing, I can match it with a story of a bad motorist. There are bad examples on both sides of the equation.

What I find amusing is that when someone actually sits down and does a bit of thinking about the cost of use of roads issue, you do not even stop and think about it, you just go back to shouting "bikes don't belong there".

I used the damage to roads calculation as a means to work out how much rego to pay, just as a small car pays less than a large car, which in turn pays less than a truck. Not for the reason of some concern about damage to roads, obviously you could not see that reasoning, probably because you spent no time reading what I said before you waded in.

This is all shown by the fact that you did not even comment on my suggestion of a road use levy for the construction of bike lanes, or did you not get that far through my post?

[dandandandan]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Obviously you've never experienced cyclists first hand.

Well actually I have since I DO cycle as well as drive and deal with non-favourable circumstances created by all sorts of road traffic daily. But you know what? I'm patient enough to not do anything stupid.

Unlike yourself, I am a driver that is conscientious of the well being of other road users 2 wheeled or 4 wheeled, motorised or not.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

Yeah almost squashed one on my bonnet.

Unbelievable how it happened too. In peak hour crawling like 20k's he's on a side street and simply turns onto the main rd I'm on and cycled next to me, didn't see him until he was in front of me. Lucky I saw him, any longer I wouldn't hit him.

Take your head out of your backside then, you are a danger to everyone on the road.

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I don't think anyone is concerned with the damage a bike causes to the road. The issue that gets people fired up is courtesy. With all of the pro-bike bunch wailing about "drivers" not being polite enough to bikes, ever thought about the cyclists who will selfishly let cars bank up behind them as they go less than 20 in a 60, 70 or 80 zone?? They want to be treated equally on the road, yet they do not obey the rules so why should they be treated as anything more than a nuisance? They will ride up on the footpath in crawling traffic when it suits them then slot back into the traffic further up. They will run through red lights in what is surely an acknowledgement that they think the road rules don't apply to them. These are the same people that claim they "share" the road? Unblievable.

The lack of damage a bike causes to the road does not negate the fact that they are a rolling roadblock that doesn't belong on the road. I think the issue that people have with the rego situation is that they are PAYING to use the road, whereas a bike can pay nothing and cause mayhem when people are just trying to get home to their families or get to work on time. This is why we have cycle lanes, but there just aren't enough of them. And then you have the pinheads that ride their bikes in the middle of the road even when there is a cycle lane alongside. Hopeless.

I do appreciate the "good" cyclists out there that will ride as close to the left as possible, or even jump over to the footpath when the bank of cars behind them reaches armageddon levels. But for the others who really couldn't care about anyone else but themselves, they do not deserve my courtesy; but they get it for free anyway.

Wow.. just wow..

I would love to say what is on my mind about that, but I don't feel like a holiday from FF.au

Seriously mate, if 1 cyclist is enough to turn you into a raging toddler, hang up your keys!

[RG]

For crying out loud, why is everyone bickering like school girls and getting so worked up?

Seriously, come on this is getting ridiculous.

[Pinch]

Originally Posted by RG

For crying out loud, why is everyone bickering like school girls and getting so worked up?

Seriously, come on this is getting ridiculous.

This is the new Ford v Holden RG. Passions run deep (sometimes without any basis in reality).

Its all Magda's fault - blame her!