Australia’s First F-35 on the Go

[Moby Vic]

Yeah, China doesn't have enough land.

[Madaya]

Look, let's get back to basics. The basic is the $ or other iterations of the same.
For China to invade Australia would cost? More than what it is worth on the stock exchange. They get our ore for a song anyway.

While our Allies appear to be on the back foot, now might be the time for Australia to implement some sort of National Service. Hell, it doesn't have to be the full bottle, even a Dads Army kinda thing would do. Just a few months military training, boys and girls (and mums and dads) would suddenly turn Australia into a fortress. If 50% of our population knows how to fire a weapon and take orders, only a thermo nuclear attack would decide the game.

[Moby Vic]

Originally Posted by Madaya

Just a few months military training, boys and girls (and mums and dads) would suddenly turn Australia into a fortress.

Yeah, that sounds way more effective than F-35s.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

But it's insurance that's worthless.

Let's speculate on worse case scenario. Say China and North Korea decide they want to go halves in Australia tomorrow? In a few days they could have 100's of 1000's of troops here, aircraft carriers, warships etc. Aside from total all out nuclear war that would kill millions of innocent people (which they couldn't seriously take as an option) or sending the majority of their army (which they WON'T take as an option) here how could the US stop them? Or any allies? We sure as hell couldn't. Best we can do is keep up relationships with anyone we see as a potential threat through other means as well as military support, that was just an example the US could easily do it too if they wanted too.

You’re taking the ****, right?

Australia is a bloody great island, many thousands of miles from the protagonists you suggest. Hence why it makes sense to be friends with the bloke who has the most powerful navy in the world.

They wouldn’t be able to land a cracker, the US Navy would cut them to pieces.

Chinese aircraft carriers? Bwahahaha. After we sold them the Melbourne for scrap, they kept it and studied it so they learn how to make one.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Madaya

While our Allies appear to be on the back foot, now might be the time for Australia to implement some sort of National Service. Hell, it doesn't have to be the full bottle, even a Dads Army kinda thing would do. Just a few months military training, boys and girls (and mums and dads) would suddenly turn Australia into a fortress. If 50% of our population knows how to fire a weapon and take orders, only a thermo nuclear attack would decide the game.

Hmm, just check with the Greenwich Observatory, there’s been no warping of the space-time continuum. It’s definitely 2013, not 1813.

But just for lols, what are you suggesting we arm this Dad’s army with? Muskets & Bayonets, or should we just go with pointy sticks?

In a conflict with anyone more powerful than Fiji, the LAST thing Australia can do is fight a protracted land-war.
Even in the unlikely event of a full-scale invasion, by say, Indonesia, our strategy would be one of containment & harassment, whilst cutting their supply lines and killing most of them before they even stepped ashore.
Plus at the same time destroying their ports, airfields, and refineries, and dropping the SAS in to say “hello.”

[Moby Vic]

Simply redraw the Brisbane Line.

[Franco Cozzo]

Cut em a deal, they can have QLD, and take Campbell Newman with them.

[mik]

Personally I like Madayas idea, I myself think every one should do compulsory national service for a couple of years........... but at the very least everyone capable should be at least be able to load and fire a gun.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

But just for lols, what are you suggesting we arm this Dad’s army with? Muskets & Bayonets, or should we just go with pointy sticks?

Try the weapon stocks that are currently held in store in Canberra (5000+ Austeyr, Barrett .50 Calibre Rifles plus what is also in store in numerous military facilities for both perms and ressies. The production capacity of Lithgow Thales facility would provide F90 rifles very quickly and also manufactures mortars and mortar rounds very quickly.

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Plus at the same time destroying their ports, airfields, and refineries, and dropping the SAS in to say “hello.”

SAS first role in the invasion scenario is to set up and train resistance forces, conduct intelligence missions and harras and attack the enemy on home ground.

[Moby Vic]

Wolverines!

[Madaya]

Originally Posted by mik

Personally I like Madayas idea, I myself think every one should do compulsory national service for a couple of years........... but at the very least everyone capable should be at least be able to load and fire a gun.

Thanks for the nod mate, but I don't want to sound hysterical. Personally, I do not foresee a military invasion of Australia. More modern methods, subterfuge, computer hacking, propaganda and the tried and true brown paper bag would be far more effective and a lot cheaper.

Loading and firing a gun is simple, took me seconds to learn. Operating complex weapons or equipment takes a bit longer. Following orders (=discipline) is the key. I don't think a couple of years national service is essential. Lets face it, most people do not fit the bill and it would be a huge drain on our budget and for the most time, the guys and gals would be sitting around doing not much at all. Just thoughts.

[pottery beige]

making bits here

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-0...282?section=sa

[Moby Vic]

Suddenly the F-35's capabilities increase.

[pottery beige]

yeanup, just amused as its just around the corner from me

[NickyN]

Originally Posted by mik

Personally I like Madayas idea, I myself think every one should do compulsory national service for a couple of years........... but at the very least everyone capable should be at least be able to load and fire a gun.

Defining capable is a whole new story........ and will open a whole lot of issues.

[ford man xf]

This is very very interesting and shows whats in store for future conflicts, highly recommend anyone interested in this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNRMO70Hw0s

[ford man xf]

What do you do about those SAM's? Your enemy has them scattered everywhere, what a pain in the *** they would be, mobility means they can be moved anywhere, and the range they now have is scary on it's own.

[rdmr]

Still don't know why oz is buying f35s. Single engine fighters were frowned upon after the raaf had the mirage. F22s make more sense. Maybe planners are looking at stol 'b' models for the future mini ran carriers.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by rdmr

Still don't know why oz is buying f35s. Single engine fighters were frowned upon after the raaf had the mirage. F22s make more sense. Maybe planners are looking at stol 'b' models for the future mini ran carriers.

so tell me how bad are those harriers, their all single engine.

[Silver Ghia]

Jet turbine engines are significantly more reliable these days so cannot be compared to years ago. Twin engines virtually doubles the maintenance costs.

As mentioned many times, F22s were out of the question, not being available for sale outside the US.

[GasoLane]

But can they fly as good as the Russians

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK7u...vJ17iQ&index=2

[rdmr]

I would have thought if Australia had requested f22s we would be granted purchase of them.
As for harriers, what foreign operators do with their inventory is up to them. One of the reasons we bought hornets was because of our experience with single engined mirages.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by rdmr

I would have thought if Australia had requested f22s we would be granted purchase of them.
As for harriers, what foreign operators do with their inventory is up to them. One of the reasons we bought hornets was because of our experience with single engined mirages.

the Australian built french mirage's are two engine rolls Royce avon 302 jet engine.
that are still in active service in the Pakistan military..

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by burnz

the Australian built french mirage's are two engine rolls Royce avon 302 jet engine.
that are still in active service in the Pakistan military..

Australian Mirage IIIO's were powered by a single SNECMA Atar 9C engine. Original prototype was powered by a Avon Mk67 engine but never entered RAAF service.

As mentioned, reliability of these cannot be compared to current jet turbine engines.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Australian Mirage IIIO's were powered by a single SNECMA Atar 9C engine. Original prototype was powered by a Avon Mk67 engine but never entered RAAF service.

As mentioned, reliability of these cannot be compared to current jet turbine engines.

atar engine were only test same for the 67 avon, never went into production.

twin 302's in Y configuration with shared afterburner were used.
and in full service, sold around 1990 to the pakkies. that again are still fully operational.
trust me I worked on these puppie's

now all RAAF are using pratt & whittney.
avionics will still be done by GRM..

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by burnz

atar engine were only test same for the 67 avon, never went into production.

twin 302's in Y configuration with shared afterburner were used.
and in full service, sold around 1990 to the pakkies. that again are still fully operational.
trust me I worked on these puppie's

now all RAAF are using pratt & whittney.
avionics will still be done by GRM..

I was just going by my trusty 1967 edition of Observers book of Military aircraft, and this link confirms.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

I was just going by my trusty 1967 edition of Observers book of Military aircraft, and this link confirms.

I didn't go all threw it but it gave me the impression that we were buying from the French,
when we were building in fishermens bend under licence.

[ford man xf]

Joint Strike Fighters: Government to spend $12 billion on 58 more next-generation F-35sUpdated 2 hours 34 minutes ago


Photo: Prime Minister Tony Abbott says the JSF will provide a "major boost" to the Australian Defence Force. (AAP: Alan Porritt) Map: Australia
Australia will buy 58 more F-35 Joint Strike Fighters (JSF) at a cost of more than $12 billion after the Federal Government gave the go ahead for the purchase yesterday.

The extra aircraft will bring Australia's total Joint Strike Fighter force to 72 aircraft, with the first of them to enter service in 2020.

The $12.4 billion price tag makes the Joint Strike Fighters Australia's most expensive Defence asset.

The Government says it will also consider the option of buying another squadron of the next-generation fighter jets to eventually replace the RAAF'S F/A-18 Super Hornets.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott, who formally announced the purchase today, says the JSF is the most advanced fighter in production anywhere in the world and will make a vital contribution to Australia's national security.

"Together with the Super Hornet and Growler electronic warfare aircraft, the F-35 aircraft will ensure Australia maintains a regional air combat edge," he said before the announcement.

"The F-35 will provide a major boost to the ADF's intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities.

"The acquisition of F-35 aircraft will bring significant economic benefits to Australia, including regional areas and local defence industry."

First fighters to enter service in 2020, with new air bases in NSW, NT
The first Joint Strike Fighters will arrive in Australia in 2018 and enter service in 2020.

As part of the announcement, more than $1.6 billion will be spent on new facilities at air bases in Williamtown in New South Wales and Tindal in the Northern Territory.

The F-35 has been billed as the smartest fighter jet on the planet, designed to strike enemies in the air and on the ground without being detected by radar.

But the plane's development has been beset by delays and cost overruns.


Audio: Listen to Lisa Millar's report for AM (AM)
The head of the JSF program, US Air Force Lieutenant General Chris Bogdan, visited Australia earlier this year and declared the reliability and maintainability of the aircraft was not yet "good enough".

In late March the US House Armed Services Committee was told the planes were not affordable to use at the moment.

The committee heard software problems could delay the fighter's production, and foreign buyer delays could see countries like Australia paying millions of dollars more per aircraft.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-2...ghters/5405236

[Bossxr8]

Should just buy a bunch of Malaysian Air Boeings if they want the ability to not be seen by radar.

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Should just buy a bunch of Malaysian Air Boeings if they want the ability to not be seen by radar.

Hahaha! I like this, but come on give them a go, these will turn out to be fantastic once they iron out all the bugs.