First experience .. Vic law regarding passing emergency vehicle

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I think the coppers will be looking for blood..so to speak. He doesnt even deserve a cell.

The Cops might be looking for blood so to speak,but really the Porsche driver will be charged with speeding and driving under the influence of drugs and leaving the scene of a crash.What he was on bail for will be dealt with.But the truck driver will be on 4 charges of manslaughter plus whatever other traffic charges he was guilty of

[Adamz Ghia]

The Porsche driver didn’t cause this accident. The worst he did was leave the scene and take pictures. That’s what he’ll be sentenced for. The amount of commentary I’ve seen from people on the socials and comments sections blaming him is ridiculous.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

The Cops might be looking for blood so to speak,but really the Porsche driver will be charged with speeding and driving under the influence of drugs and leaving the scene of a crash.What he was on bail for will be dealt with.But the truck driver will be on 4 charges of manslaughter plus whatever other traffic charges he was guilty of

Depends on what they find, if he had an episode behind the wheel he won’t be charged, it’s just a horrible accident.

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Depends on what they find, if he had an episode behind the wheel he won’t be charged, it’s just a horrible accident.

Well the Commissioner said this morning that he had an episode after the crash not before,so we can maybe presume he fainted or had a heart attack after seeing what had happened.Don’t call it an accident it was an avoidable crash

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

The Porsche driver didn’t cause this accident. The worst he did was leave the scene and take pictures. That’s what he’ll be sentenced for. The amount of commentary I’ve seen from people on the socials and comments sections blaming him is ridiculous.

If he actually stayed and assisted the thing is he'd probably gotten away with what he had done in the first place to get pulled over because all the people involved died and the media narrative would have been significantly different, painting him in a completely different light rather than everyone being out for blood because he took photos, spread it on social media and ran off.

He would have been looking at a date with the magistrate at worst but now he's probably going to be locked up and he is virtually unemployable because if you googled his name this is the first thing that will come up.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I think the coppers will be looking for blood..so to speak. He doesnt even deserve a cell.

The coppers should be looking at the judicial system. Pusey was out on bail. Ironic that an incident like this happened in a state like Victoria.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Romulus

The coppers should be looking at the judicial system. Pusey was out on bail. Ironic that an incident like this happened in a state like Victoria.

Check out the guys history, he's an A class knob but obviously was pretty good at what he did to be able to buy those cars

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ard-Pusey.html

[smoo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I think you're missing the point, its not that you cant keep a 3 second gap, its that in peak hour, which this was, that 3 second gap will get filled in a heart beat, then you've got to adjust another 3 second gap, which will likewise be filled in a heartbeat, rinse, repeat.
Deal with that everyday and tell me it doesn't make you more reluctant to leave that gap.
There's a reason why they spent a fortune on an advertising campaign a few years ago about not filling a heavy vehicles braking space, but unfortunately, it doesn't always sink in with many motorists.

A lot of this is speculation based on real world situations being a multi lane freeway in peak hour and the result is a once in a blue moon occurrence. No one set out to kill 4 innocent people going about their jobs but sometimes the things people do out of habit or necessity can lead to unforeseen results, as a heavy vehicle driver in those conditions you could get away with a tighter margin for years and never have a problem, and then all of a sudden you do, i'd say this could be one of those occasions.

And lest not forget, if the bloke driving the car wasn't breaking the law, those innocent people wouldn't have been there in that moment.

Agree on your last two paragraphs.
I have done it every day. City pick ups/deliveries and dealing with LVs is a main reason as to why I don't anymore. But it is part of the job so I don't find it a valid excuse for breaking the road rules. Coupled with a few of seconds inattention, can have dire consequences when the shtf.

[M&Ms]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

I doubt 200k's in the left lane is realistic for overtaking, given people in the right lane were there for a reason, but that's my opinion based on the two times my idiot mates have taken me for a ride I didn't really want to take. Maybe the Porsche is that much better handling wise, but any left/right movement is mental at that speed.

I've also been called to walk up 30m for a breath test (when parking at my work, when I went in for an late afternoon emergency I needed to fix) when the cops were near my building and saw me park without driving past where they were testing. The young cop called a busload (seriously, a bus load of them came by!) of his work mates to drive up to us - before he took the reading. 0. He kept saying "very suspicious" except, that's where I work you effwit.

My last speeding fine, 6 years ago, in a 100 zone. The cop standing a foot into the left lane and me thinking - do you want to talk to me from the passenger side maybe? Oh, do whatever you want, yes sir, no sir...

I have no doubt these guys felt no pain, sad to say I know, but they aren't thinking clearly from the endorphins they had running through the minds when they had just decided they now own a Porsche. It is really sad, they need to smarten up though.

They're saying he was doing 140, not 200. That video was from last month, not from yesterday. Doing 140 on a 3 lane road is the norm in other parts of the world, just not in our Nanny states.

Honestly, the Premier and state government have blood on their hands now. The Porsche driver is being made out to be the cause here, yet not the hwy patrol that was seated on the grass, probably gunned it to 200 to catch the Porsche, says yay an impound before I go home, calls backup, and gets wiped out in the process by creating a hazard while trying to prevent a hazard that's arguably not that big of a hazard.

Ironically, if the copper pulled the Porsche over, gave him a reduced ticket and let him no his way, rather than camp out on the side of a Motorway for 30 minutes where the evening sun was setting so they could be a bigshot, All 4 would be enjoying dinner with their families tonight. RIP to the dead, unfortunately this was going to happen sooner or later with current laws, overzealous policing, and paranoid and incompetent drivers on the road. I feel worst for the truckie here, his life will never be the same again.

[M&Ms]

Originally Posted by csv8

Not in Queensland. Thank goodness Qld doesnt have it. I hope the tragic deaths of the 4 Police Officers , isn't as a result of this law. Condolences to the families of the 4 Officers.
Apparently, the Porsche was owned by Lorbek Luxury Cars?

Nope, QLD registration with LLC-001, coincidentally the same as Lorbek's VIC display plate.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

The Cops might be looking for blood so to speak,but really the Porsche driver will be charged with speeding and driving under the influence of drugs and leaving the scene of a crash.What he was on bail for will be dealt with.But the truck driver will be on 4 charges of manslaughter plus whatever other traffic charges he was guilty of

Unfortunately I doubt he will face any of those charges. The only Police who can give evidence to these matters are no longer with us.
Leaving the scene and failing to render assistance is about it, which according to the paper are indictable offences in Victoria, so it's the high jump for him, not Magistrates Court.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by smoo

Agree on your last two paragraphs.
I have done it every day. City pick ups/deliveries and dealing with LVs is a main reason as to why I don't anymore. But it is part of the job so I don't find it a valid excuse for breaking the road rules. Coupled with a few of seconds inattention, can have dire consequences when the shtf.

I've never said it was an excuse, if that's what you took from what I've written then I apologise, my point is that it does happen an any given day and quite often for the reasons I've pointed out.

[M&Ms]

Truth comes out when people are flustered??

Police Association Victoria secretary Wayne Gatt said the deaths have floored the police force..... ‘These police officers were doing something that we do 10 times, 20 times, 30 times a shift – intercepting a motor vehicle on the side of the road, this is the bread and butter of policing,’ he told reporters.

https://distincttoday.net/2020/04/22...-2PimI34B-rl9k

[Franco Cozzo]

'Richard Pusey' - I'm sure that went down well at high school

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

'Richard Pusey' - I'm sure that went down well at high school

You think he had it bad, what about his poor sister, Lucie.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Romulus

The Police should be looking at the judicial system. Pusey was out on bail. Ironic that an incident like this happened in a state like Victoria.

Fixed it for you.

[marty351]

Well, Dick Pound isn't a psychopath. I think.

[MITCHAY]

What a horror accident. Pulling people over is a routine duty but it only takes one time for it to be your last. A bit later or sooner or a bit further up or down and none of this happens.

The driver who did the runner sounds like a **** based on what has been reported. The fact he did the runner in the first place makes him one regardless of anything else really.

[Ben73]

What do you know another scumbag out on bail causing havoc. I wonder how many people will be let out on bail tomorrow?
I know he isn’t t directly responsible for the crash but he is clearly a moron and shouldn’t have been on bail.

Don’t get started on 40 speed limits on highways. In the perfect world they work fine. Unfortunately busy city motorways have lots of less than perfect situations.
Why do you think roadworks have warning signs well before any speed restrictions start. Rounding a corner to see surprise roadworks wouldn’t end well occasionally.

[MITCHAY]

I think the 40km/h is fine in theory but in reality it depends on who is driving which can be said generally.

Some people focus on directly what is right infront of them and much less are more aware of what is going on down the road.

Though I have to say being in a fairly small car in traffic it can be quite hard to see ahead a lot of the time even with gaps.

If I see disco lights ahead I gradually slow down from a while away and have gotten the horn and lights from the car behind and I have been in situations where I can't see and next thing you know brakes being slammed on left right and centre. Not really a common occurrence here though.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

But the truck driver will be on 4 charges of manslaughter plus whatever other traffic charges he was guilty of

I'd be surprised frankly. We're talking Victoria. The Crimes Act (1958) has three potential charges:

1. Culpable driving causing death. The charge must state which of the four reasons below is relevant:

Driving recklessly. This means that the driver deliberately (and without good reason) ignored a substantial risk that another person might die or suffer grievous bodily harm as result of their driving.

Driving negligently. This means that the person fails substantially (and without good reason) to take enough care to avoid the death or grievous bodily harm. Interestingly, fatigue is specifically listed as a cause of negligence under the Act but driving above or below the speed limit is not per se negligent.

Driving under the influence of alcohol to such an extent that proper control of the vehicle cannot be maintained. That doesn't necessarily imply that a BAC over the prescribed limit is sufficient proof.

Driving while under the influence of drugs to such an extent that proper control of the vehicle cannot be maintained.

2. Dangerous driving causing death

Although a separate offence to culpable driving causing death it can also be used as an as an alternative verdict. This offence also refers specifically to driving at a speed (or in a manner) which is dangerous in the circumstances.

3. Manslaughter

Recent case law has allowed for the concept of 'motor' manslaughter but the juries are instructed:

“It is sufficient if the prosecution shows that the act which caused the death was done by the accused consciously and voluntarily, without any intention of causing death or grievous bodily harm but in circumstances which involved such a great falling short of the standard of care which a reasonable man would have exercised and which involved such a high risk that death or grievous bodily harm would follow that the doing of the act merited criminal punishment” (Note: the emphases are mine).

[MITCHAY]

They have thrown the book at him with a lot of charges.

If he doesn't end up in prison it would just be a technicality.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

The Porsche driver didn’t cause this accident. The worst he did was leave the scene and take pictures. That’s what he’ll be sentenced for. The amount of commentary I’ve seen from people on the socials and comments sections blaming him is ridiculous.

He contributed no matter how others try to deny any liability, if he was not speeding and driving under the influence of drugs there would have been no need for him to be pulled over, no need for police officers to have to waste their time on the side of the road dealing with him.
And if , just if he behaved like 98% of other road users then 4 police officers would still be alive and maybe the truckie would not be in his position either.

So yes, Richard Pusey, the man who is self obsessed and a few years ago abused a cancer patient by telling her he hoped she gets more cancer and dies, contributed to this,
Ps , bet you he was not wearing that corona mask prior to yesterday ;)

[russellw]

Originally Posted by au2000

He contributed no matter how others try to deny any liability, if he was not speeding and driving under the influence of drugs there would have been no need for him to be pulled over, no need for police officers to have to waste their time on the side of the road dealing with him.
And if , just if he behaved like 98% of other road users then 4 police officers would still be alive and maybe the truckie would not be in his position either.

I'm not defending the guy but it's important that we make the distinction between contributed and legally responsible. They are two quite different things.

If we really want to go down the contributed path as a means of passing blame then then the manufacturer of the truck 'contributed' because if they hadn't made a reliable enough truck that it was operational on that day then even if they had all been there that truck wouldn't have hit them.

Or, to take it to it's logical (if ridiculous) conclusion, the parents of Mr Pusey contributed by having sex on the night he was conceived because if they hadn't then he wouldn't have been driving the Porsche in that place at that time and in that manner.

You see, it's all too easy playing the what if and but game but it also leads nowhere fast.

It's even debatable whether Mr Pusey is morally responsible for the tragic outcome but at least you could make a case that would stand up.

[russellw]

The range of charges Mr Pusey is facing are worth considering:

Reckless conduct endangering life
Speeding
Failing to remain after a drug test
Failing to render assistance
Failing to exchange details
Possessing a drug of dependence
Destruction of evidence
Three counts of committing an indictable offence while on bail

The first is obviously the serious one but it contains some of the evidentiary elements mentioned earlier in as much as the prosecution must prove all of the elements below:

The alleged offender engaged in the conduct;
That conduct placed a person in danger (i.e conduct that carried with it an appreciable risk) of death;
The alleged offender engaged in that conduct voluntarily;
A reasonable person in the alleged offenders position, engaging in the same conduct in which the alleged offender engaged in and in the same circumstances, would have realised that they had placed another in danger of death; and,
The alleged offender engaged in that conduct recklessly in so far as they could have foreseen that placing another person in danger of death was a probable consequence of their actions in all the circumstances.

It carries a Level 5 penalty (10 years maximum).

'Failing to render assistance' and the related 'Failing to exchange details' both carry a 5 penalty unit / 14 days jail maximum penalty.

'Possession of a drug of dependence' carries a 40 penalty unit / 5 years jail maximum penalty.

The reasonable new 'committing an indictable offence while on bail' carries a 30 penalty unit / 3 months jail maximum.

'Destruction of evidence' carries a Level 6 penalty (5 year maximum).

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

The Porsche driver didn’t cause this accident. The worst he did was leave the scene and take pictures. That’s what he’ll be sentenced for. The amount of commentary I’ve seen from people on the socials and comments sections blaming him is ridiculous.

if he didn't behave they way he did, the accident wouldn't have happened - if you do a proper 'root cause analysis' he is the problem

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I think the 40km/h is fine in theory but in reality it depends on who is driving which can be said generally.

Some people focus on directly what is right infront of them and much less are more aware of what is going on down the road.

Though I have to say being in a fairly small car in traffic it can be quite hard to see ahead a lot of the time even with gaps.

If I see disco lights ahead I gradually slow down from a while away and have gotten the horn and lights from the car behind and I have been in situations where I can't see and next thing you know brakes being slammed on left right and centre. Not really a common occurrence here though.

it is a law that is absolutely logical, however unlike most road laws we don't get to put it into practice very often, so we are not well rehearsed and when the red & blues are seen sometimes the connection between what we see and what have to do is wide apart - it is unfortunate but a reality

I really have to make a conscious effort when I see the red & blues, if on a freeway I am spending as much time looking in the mirrors as in front of me for obvious reasons

[AlanD]

But we do not yet know what "might" have happened to the truck driver since it was last reported he was still in the care of medical staff and an interview is some hours away.

That said, I suspect if Mr Pusey is tried before a jury, presuming it gets that far, the presiding Judge/Magistrate will have a bit of trouble finding 12 unbiased members of the public to form the panel.

Freedoms always have boundaries in an ordered society. For example, freedom of speech does not extend to shouting "fire" in a crowded auditorium when no fire exists. Freedom, when driving on the public roads, does not entitle the driver to deliberately disobey speed limits, drive whilst intoxicated or be under the influence of prescribed substances when in control of a vehicle.

But we see it every day. And human nature, together with a preoccupation of self is going to make sure it continues.

Cheers

[MITCHAY]

I don't think anyone would ordinarily blame this bloke for the tragedy that has happened but he ****ed off from the scene and (took graphic photos too) regardless of anything thing else he is a **** **** of the highest order. Lock him up.

[jpd80]

I’m surprised that there was no truck with the giant buffer on the back,
motorways in Queensland usually send out that truck to protect people
who have broken down or requested by emergency services.

I think the real fail here was the time and position of the incident,
those vehicles being there for so long without adequate protection
is asking for trouble