One-armed woman "driven" to despair.

[PimpMyHubcap]

Originally Posted by flappist

It is normal for do gooders to see everyone else's arguments as invalid. Only they are the true oracles of wisdom.

I am making no excuses, just pointing out how narrow minded crusaders always push their restrictions on others "for the good of all" and "it is just common sense".

As far as the kids comment, yes quite a few, one of whom I suspect is about YOUR age.......

Ah well. We can agree to disagree. By her going to the media, it makes me think she has already lost her battle and our arguements are in vain. Commonsense has prevailed over the battler again. Makes me feel sooooo safe on the roads now.

You have kids in their 40`s??.........must have started real early. 52 right??

[Scott]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Some people just have no concept of facing thier own limitations and working within them.

You mean like Lance Armstrong?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by PimpMyHubcap

Ah well. We can agree to disagree. By her going to the media, it makes me think she has already lost her battle and our arguements are in vain. Commonsense has prevailed over the battler again. Makes me feel sooooo safe on the roads now.

You have kids in their 40`s??.........must have started real early. 52 right??

Oldest is 38....

Youngest is 18.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by flappist

It is normal for do gooders to see everyone else's arguments as invalid. Only they are the true oracles of wisdom.

I am making no excuses, just pointing out how narrow minded crusaders always push their restrictions on others "for the good of all" and "it is just common sense".

As far as the kids comment, yes quite a few, one of whom I suspect is about YOUR age.......

You have a knack for the obtuse.

[ray38l]

Originally Posted by Scott

You mean like Lance Armstrong?

lance Armstrong worked to his limitations until he found a substance that pushed him beyond what was possible.

[ray38l]

Originally Posted by flappist

It is normal for do gooders to see everyone else's arguments as invalid. Only they are the true oracles of wisdom.

I am making no excuses, just pointing out how narrow minded crusaders always push their restrictions on others "for the good of all" and "it is just common sense".

As far as the kids comment, yes quite a few, one of whom I suspect is about YOUR age.......

i don't really know what you are getting at. To me the do gooders are the ones that are saying that she should be able to drive a manual, you know the ones that are to scared to sell someone with a disability that they cant do everything and that they are different to other people.

[93EB_SXR6]

Yeah, if I had one arm I'd definitely consider buying an auto to make driving both safer and easier.
Don't give me any of that rubbish that someone with one arm can drive just as safely as someone with both... I've entertained that thought, but I've found there is no merit to it.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ray38l

i don't really know what you are getting at. To me the do gooders are the ones that are saying that she should be able to drive a manual, you know the ones that are to scared to sell someone with a disability that they cant do everything and that they are different to other people.

Yes it is quite obvious you don't.

It is not that she should or should not be able to drive a manual.

It is that she should have the right to sit the test the same as anyone else.
If she passes the test then she has shown the appropriate ability.
If not then the opposite is true.

Allowing others to prejudge your abilities based on their personal views is a very dangerous road.......

[GasoLane]

I think the main, and original, whinge is that in WA she has to sit a special test and cant afford it.

Originally Posted by the lady in the article

"I am now told I will have to undergo an occupational therapy driving assessment, which will be $500.

If she gets to sit this test and passes I see no problem with her driving.

What I do find strange is that she could afford to drive a car all the way across the country (petrol, food and motels for 4,500 k's) yet can't find the cash for the test.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

What I do find strange is that she could afford to drive a car all the way across the country (petrol, food and motels for 4,500 k's) yet can't find the cash for the test.

like most things, it's a choice between noodles or a dvd.....

i don't get why she has to pay for the assessment. that should be the sort of thing the govt should cover.

[Streets]

I think it's funny that there are people in this thread who seem to have some kind of eyesight or cognition problem yet still hold valid driving licences and are telling someone else what they can and can't do

For those people, I will post the actual point of the discussion in a nice large font:

Originally Posted by flappist

It is not that she should or should not be able to drive a manual.

It is that she should have the right to sit the test the same as anyone else.

Just take your time and read it slowly, and when you feel you understand those sentences, feel free to rejoin the discussion

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by flappist

It is normal for do gooders to see everyone else's arguments as invalid. Only they are the true oracles of wisdom.

I am making no excuses, just pointing out how narrow minded crusaders always push their restrictions on others "for the good of all" and "it is just common sense".

As far as the kids comment, yes quite a few, one of whom I suspect is about YOUR age.......

The listeners to Alan Jones and other far right programs believe that they know best for everyone, and to disagree is to be a "bleeding heart greenie" (I think that is meant to be an insult to free thinking individuals who disagree with their narrow view of the world). "For the good of us all" is one of my most hated terms, and usually pushed when one is not capable of seeing that there can be two (or more) equal and valid points of view. And when all else is lost, they will appeal to more emotive reasons, which are usually not reasons at all. So i like your comment the saving the kiddies!
I like the fact that not everyone on here has simplistic notions on how society works. Keep up the good work Flappist

[Matty4]

Originally Posted by Streets

I think it's funny that there are people in this thread who seem to have some kind of eyesight or cognition problem yet still hold valid driving licences and are telling someone else what they can and can't do

For those people, I will post the actual point of the discussion in a nice large font:

Just take your time and read it slowly, and when you feel you understand those sentences, feel free to rejoin the discussion

Amen to that !!!!!

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Is any of that relevant if she passed the test? No-one has to prove to any authority that they can deal with sudden emergencies. If you check current licence requirements and the testing, most of this is not tested. She obviously has some level of car control, but you assume that because she does not do things the way you do it, then it is wrong.

You ask people how we can improve road safety, and 90% of people say something along the lines of "Teach people to control a car in an emergency".
And here we have you saying no one should have to prove they can deal with emergencies?

She is not being singled out. She has a very obvious condition, and the 'pencil pusher' has to do their job correctly and has to get her to do a test to show she can drive correctly. $500 is pretty steep for a driving test, but that is beside the point. We all have to pay for stuff we would rather not whether we can or cannot afford it.

The questions is not why shouldn't she drive a manual, but why SHOULD she?
Is there any benefit for her to drive a manual over an auto?
No not really, only convenience of not having to buy another car.
But as someone said, there is probably a dealer who will do a clean swap for a similar car in auto form.

[ray38l]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes it is quite obvious you don't.

It is not that she should or should not be able to drive a manual.

It is that she should have the right to sit the test the same as anyone else.
If she passes the test then she has shown the appropriate ability.
If not then the opposite is true.

Allowing others to prejudge your abilities based on their personal views is a very dangerous road.......

there should be a simple rule that says if you have one arm you cant drive a manual. Same for any other impairment a line has to be drawn on what should be done to eliminate any problems.
Governments already do it to p platers by saying they cant handle a high powered car so they cant drive it. They aren't given a chance to take a test to prove that they can handle it or be responsible in it. But then again there only disability is being young so who cares about them?

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by ray38l

Governments already do it to p platers by saying they cant handle a high powered car so they cant drive it. They aren't given a chance to take a test to prove that they can handle it or be responsible in it. But then again there only disability is being young so who cares about them?

AH so true.

For every 1 armed person who can drive a manual, there is probably anther 5 who couldn't drive a manual to save their life.

A blanket rules stating one armed = auto only will draw a distinctive line in the sand, and then there would be no arguments of whether someone in particular with 1 arm is god enough to drive manual or not.

I'm assuming most 1 armed people accept reality and buy an auto car because it makes sense and makes it easier for themselves.

I'm sure a disability would make many things harder in your life, so why would you deliberately try to make something harder for yourself when it doesn't have to be. I.E driving a manual.

[Streets]

Originally Posted by Ben73

You ask people how we can improve road safety, and 90% of people say something along the lines of "Teach people to control a car in an emergency".
And here we have you saying no one should have to prove they can deal with emergencies?

But did GTP actually say that? Pulling this 90% figure out of the air and then ascribing it to him despite him never saying it doesn't validate your point.

Originally Posted by Ben73

The questions is not why shouldn't she drive a manual, but why SHOULD she?
Is there any benefit for her to drive a manual over an auto?

Better fuel economy? Greater control over the car? Manual is more fun and involved to drive? The exact same reasons as everybody else who prefer manuals? Do you think disability completely changes somebody's neurological makeup or something?

Originally Posted by ray38l

there should be a simple rule that says if you have one arm you cant drive a manual. Same for any other impairment a line has to be drawn on what should be done to eliminate any problems.
Governments already do it to p platers by saying they cant handle a high powered car so they cant drive it. They aren't given a chance to take a test to prove that they can handle it or be responsible in it. But then again there only disability is being young so who cares about them?

To compare the affliction of a disability to the affliction of youth is absurd.

Originally Posted by Ben73

I'm sure a disability would make many things harder in your life, so why would you deliberately try to make something harder for yourself when it doesn't have to be. I.E driving a manual.

Chew your arm off and then have some miserable sop tell you what you can and can't do because they see your disability as a crippling life-ending impairment, when, to you, it is nothing more than a minor setback.

[ray38l]

Originally Posted by Streets

To compare the affliction of a disability to the affliction of youth is absurd.

maybe, but what i said is right. The only difference is it is accepted to blame everything on youth, but someone who has a disability that is obviously going to impair the ability to drive a manual has the right to have a test to drive an obvious unsafe car for them. Why don't p platers get the chance to prove themselves?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by ray38l

maybe, but what i said is right. The only difference is it is accepted to blame everything on youth, but someone who has a disability that is obviously going to impair the ability to drive a manual has the right to have a test to drive an obvious unsafe car for them. Why don't p platers get the chance to prove themselves?

You might want to retract that obvious word out of your post.

For a giggle (not degrading the lady) I took the barina down the street and back this morning, using one arm. To make life easier I used my left (only easy to change gear) and I am right handed. If I made it back alive, with no prior practice (SHES BEEN DOING IT FOR 10 YEARS) then whats the problem?

If you actually take it easy and leave your V8SC style at home then its not a problem.

Everyday you see people driving with one arm, no one says boo...talk about a storm in a tea cup.

[PimpMyHubcap]

Originally Posted by flappist

I am still waiting for someone to actually show some legislation stating that one hand MUST remain on the steering wheel at all times...........

I just talked to two different Occupational Health Driving Assessors who do disabled testing in Qld (note I said Qld....dont know for WA)

What happens is that the assessee (they must already have a license) has to apply to the doctor who then applies to the OHDA for a test. The test is done ($700 here in QLD - way too high) and the OHDA gives a RECOMMENDATION back to the doctor who then signs a medical certificate which the assessee takes to the DOT and they get their license.

Sounds easy?? Remember those recommendations?? NEITHER of the OHDA will let the assessee pass driving a manual in THIS CASE (right arm-below the shoulder) and would ALWAYS RECOMMEND an automatic.

One of the OHDA`s mentioned that a doctor would never let it go either because of Jets Law http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/00...april_2010.pdf Jets Law applies to the OHDA and the Doctor as well as putting the emphasis on the actual driver. So you will never see it in writing but since that law was introduced, someone who has one arm will never be able to get a manual license as they are NOT in control of the vehicle at all times.

The reason she has fallen through the cracks?..........a sympathetic OHDA and doctor (smaller town) back when she applied??......I dont know and we will probably never know. I dont know if you will be happy with that answer flappist but I`m sure there are more facts in this post you can play with.

Edit. And for the record I have never said she doesnt have the right to do a test.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Everyday you see people driving with one arm, no one says boo...talk about a storm in a tea cup.

Agreed, the other hand is often texting! something she cant do whilst driving.... Or can she?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Agreed, the other hand is often texting! something she cant do whilst driving.... Or can she?

But its not fair, she will never have the chance to prove she can text while driving, P platers can, its a bloody outrage!

[ray38l]

Originally Posted by Polyal

You might want to retract that obvious word out of your post.

For a giggle (not degrading the lady) I took the barina down the street and back this morning, using one arm. To make life easier I used my left (only easy to change gear) and I am right handed. If I made it back alive, with no prior practice (SHES BEEN DOING IT FOR 10 YEARS) then whats the problem?

If you actually take it easy and leave your V8SC style at home then its not a problem.

Everyday you see people driving with one arm, no one says boo...talk about a storm in a tea cup.

one day i hit 246km/h in my calais down a back street. And survived. Doesn't mean i should be allowed to do it.
The thing with your little test is that you did have another arm to use if it went wrong.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by PimpMyHubcap

I just talked to two different Occupational Health Driving Assessors who do disabled testing in Qld (note I said Qld....dont know for WA)

What happens is that the assessee (they must already have a license) has to apply to the doctor who then applies to the OHDA for a test. The test is done ($700 here in QLD - way too high) and the OHDA gives a RECOMMENDATION back to the doctor who then signs a medical certificate which the assessee takes to the DOT and they get their license.

Sounds easy?? Remember those recommendations?? NEITHER of the OHDA will let the assessee pass driving a manual in THIS CASE (right arm-below the shoulder) and would ALWAYS RECOMMEND an automatic.

One of the OHDA`s mentioned that a doctor would never let it go either because of Jets Law http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/00...april_2010.pdf Jets Law applies to the OHDA and the Doctor as well as putting the emphasis on the actual driver. So you will never see it in writing but since that law was introduced, someone who has one arm will never be able to get a manual license as they are NOT in control of the vehicle at all times.

The reason she has fallen through the cracks?..........a sympathetic OHDA and doctor (smaller town) back when she applied??......I dont know and we will probably never know. I dont know if you will be happy with that answer flappist but I`m sure there are more facts in this post you can play with.

Edit. And for the record I have never said she doesnt have the right to do a test.

Just so you understand my position, I too believe that she would be much better of in an auto (but then based on observation over the years I believe a large percentage of AFF members would be much better off in low powered 4 cylinder FWD auto bubble car).

The thing that I object to is that she is not being given the right to fail the test.

Now I can understant that with a large percentage of our members the concept of "failing a test" is almost foreign as it seems these days if too many do not pass a test then the test is deemed "too hard" and rather than raising the skill of the candidates the required level of proficiency is lowered.

Now if she sits the test, fails and then screams for "special treatment" I would be totally against her but everyone should have a chance to fail equally.....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ray38l

one day i hit 246km/h in my calais down a back street. And survived. Doesn't mean i should be allowed to do it.
The thing with your little test is that you did have another arm to use if it went wrong.

Well firstly I recommend you get your speedo fixed......

[ray38l]

Digital speedo was accurate as checked by gps.
Come to Think of it i was doing it one handed because i was recording the speedo with my phone. Stupid i know but im much smarter now. Now i do it with 2 hands on the steering wheel at all times.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by ray38l

one day i hit 246km/h in my calais down a back street. And survived. Doesn't mean i should be allowed to do it.
The thing with your little test is that you did have another arm to use if it went wrong.

Down a back street...hmmm

I have driven with just my right hand before in that car aswell (manual) while drinking a Maccas water/coke...(holding in the left, I find the cup between the legs thing ends in trouble).you just change gears when your on a straight, hand off wheel and shift quick. Im not saying I go out of my way to do it but its possible to do so and not cause an accident.

We all have different skill levels, she learnt how to adpat and if she has not had a prang in that 10 years that she was at fault for then whats the problem? There will come a time when perhaps because of age she wont be able to do it but she doesnt look kamikaze to me so let her be.

[Jim Goose]

I do recall seeing in one of those feel good stories (I think it was the USA) a female (who was born without arms and had other birth defects), given a licence to drive a modified car.

She used one foot to steer (steering wheel had one of those knobs on it and obviously it had power steer) and the other foot operated a lever to select gears (it was an auto) and indicators etc...

While we can all argue until blue in the face (or is that with RSI in our fingers?) about the merits or the dangers, if she (the woman we are orginally discussing) can drive (and has been) for the past 10yrs with just one arm safely in a manual, then good for her.

There are certainly a lot of drivers out there who have two arms but a low IQ and shouldnt be driving at all! Yet they are allowed to breed and drive in society....

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Streets

Greater control over the car? .

I almost lost it reading this point. LOL

[PimpMyHubcap]

Wow......Someone gets proven wrong in this thread and has to have a dig in another AFF thread.

Proves some people (oracles of wisdom anyone??......) still cant handle a widdle discussion.