FG FPV GT Rspec vs VF HSV GTS by MOTOR Mag - Page 5

**Dave R** · 29-12-2013, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobwm

Not sure how much the list goes on... Nor am I sure how this is relevant to the thread given it's about the GT vs GTS. However, I have a late 2010 GS and it has the suede door trims (seemed quite odd compared to the XRs I had previously but hey, it's there), has the FPV sill plates and it has the FPV cluster. Something I recall you valuing so much that you installed an F6 cluster in your now departed XR6T.

What it's missing appears to be the sunglasses holder, the stitched console lid and the seats (or at least the different coverings for the seats? GT/F6 seats don't seem that different to an XR underneath..). I'm not sure what glovebox dampening is. Perhaps I've been living with a non dampened glovebox for all this time and didn't even realise it.

It is missing the silver plastic from around the shifter and the different coloured plastic around the ICC and the dash/door spears also.

But don't forget what really makes an FPV what it is - the stripes on the outside. The GS had em and you couldn't even option them away

Speaking of how valuable those FPV extras are, I can tell how much you thought they were worth having bought two FG XRs and now a commodore. Maybe the SS had the dampened glovebox in the SV6 with a V8 model you were willing to buy from the other side and that was what swayed you from an F6 or GT with the stitched centre console?

Speaking for myself, I understand that the GS is a lower end model than the GT and the F6. It was cheaper and accordingly had less stuff. It does feel like a step up from the FG XR8 and XR6T I owned before it. The little extras that I wasn't expecting (based on all the complaining here about GSs) like the 3 years roadside assistance, the minor interior changes, FPV compendium, drive day invitation (at added cost unlike GT/F6). Even with less content than its bigger brothers, it still felt like a slightly more special experience than buying an XR.

Gee it's easy to upset some people. You can get upset and take swipes at my SS (SV6 with V8) all you like, it won't change the fact that the GS comes standard with an XR6 interior and is not on the same level as a GT even when fully optioned, I'm sorry for even stating the fact. I'm not here to put down GSs, someone merely said that the GS has a basically identical interior to the other FPVs. Forgive me for pointing out that it doesn't. And thank you for agreeing with me, by the way.

Regarding your other little jabs, no I do not value the F6 cluster "so much", it was simply a convenient way to get an electronic boost gauge into the car. And that's three FG XRs, not two. I have never seriously considered buying a flagship FPV for the reason stazza said above- in features they are too similar to the XRs (and GSs) for a lot more money. I don't particularly value the little bits and bobs that the fully fledged FPVs come with, however their presence makes the car feel more premium than their Falcon (and GS) counterparts. If I was going to buy an FPV, it would probably be a GS.

BHDOGS · 29-12-2013, 05:40 PM

Can't wait till Holden's gone so we never have to hear about them again on this forum

stazza · 29-12-2013, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobwm

Not sure how much the list goes on... Nor am I sure how this is relevant to the thread given it's about the GT vs GTS. However, I have a late 2010 GS and it has the suede door trims (seemed quite odd compared to the XRs I had previously but hey, it's there), has the FPV sill plates and it has the FPV cluster. Something I recall you valuing so much that you installed an F6 cluster in your now departed XR6T.

What it's missing appears to be the sunglasses holder, the stitched console lid and the seats (or at least the different coverings for the seats? GT/F6 seats don't seem that different to an XR underneath..). I'm not sure what glovebox dampening is. Perhaps I've been living with a non dampened glovebox for all this time and didn't even realise it.

It is missing the silver plastic from around the shifter and the different coloured plastic around the ICC and the dash/door spears also.

But don't forget what really makes an FPV what it is - the stripes on the outside. The GS had em and you couldn't even option them away

Speaking of how valuable those FPV extras are, I can tell how much you thought they were worth having bought two FG XRs and now a commodore. Maybe the SS had the dampened glovebox in the SV6 with a V8 model you were willing to buy from the other side and that was what swayed you from an F6 or GT with the stitched centre console?

Speaking for myself, I understand that the GS is a lower end model than the GT and the F6. It was cheaper and accordingly had less stuff. It does feel like a step up from the FG XR8 and XR6T I owned before it. The little extras that I wasn't expecting (based on all the complaining here about GSs) like the 3 years roadside assistance, the minor interior changes, FPV compendium, drive day invitation (at added cost unlike GT/F6). Even with less content than its bigger brothers, it still felt like a slightly more special experience than buying an XR.

To add something to the topic at hand, I'm not sure why they would have left out the 0-400m time for the GT R-Spec, beyond the obvious conspiracy theories. The writer goes on about the GTS not having launch control in the auto and talks about the GTS being a 'genuine mid-12 second car'. Here's the relevant paragraph for those who are curious:

Not sure why they wouldn't just share the GT R-Spec time. Nor anywhere in the article do they make reference to the fact that at the time of launch the GT R-Spec left the then current E Series 2 or 3 or whatever it was GTS in the dust. There's just comparisons between the GTS and previous HSV generations. Then mentioning how crap the seating is in the GT. I get the GTS is better and faster around a track, but you'd think there'd be something more in the way of acknowledgement for what the R-Spec was at the time of release, other than just the fastest Ford.

Amen. As for the interior again, mine has the suede door trims and silver strip around shifter etc. And looking in mates GTs, all that's different is the seats and console lid. Atleast if youre going to argue something, get your facts straight.

**Dave R** · 29-12-2013, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stazza

Atleast if youre going to argue something, get your facts straight.

Well that's ironic, because you don't tend to use facts at all, you just liken interiors to alien heads that get vomited on by owners in their unreliable (yet only just released) GTSs and "bombadores" with "cheap and nasty" technology that doesn't work because you say it doesn't (oh, go and look at the LS1 forums, there's a thread!) and an exterior that's ugly because it's a Holden- stemming from your inability to appreciate anything with a Holden badge, ruining every single mature Holden-Ford discussion on this forum with your immature pointless rants about how crap they are, generally riddled with censored obscenities, without using a single fact, just your own single lens blue sunglasses. Then to top it all off, the person who spends the most amount of time bagging out cars on this forum suddenly gets offended when someone states non-offensive facts about their own car.

This is why I generally don't like posting in the pub. Take the best Aussie muscle car ever made, let's try to have a mature discussion. No, let's instead explain why it's garbage. Unbelievable.

strik9 · 29-12-2013, 06:06 PM

never a dull moment round here as soon as a holden is mentioned. pretty bloody immature i reckon.

stazza · 29-12-2013, 06:11 PM

Saying the styling of the VF is shithouse is my opinion. Clearly not everyone agrees as people do buy them (god knows why).

As far as the reliability goes, 2 blokes at work VFs and they have both had issues since day one. This coupled with countless issues on ls1 forum bot long after the release of the VF. That doesn't stop them buying them as they are Holden fans, but it still proves they are cheap ****.

It makes me wonder sometimes with threads like this on a Ford forum. 90% of the posters bag Ford in one way or another. Fair enough if that's your opinion, but take it to a bombadore forum instead. Cheers.

Chopped · 29-12-2013, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobwm

.......To add something to the topic at hand, I'm not sure why they would have left out the 0-400m time for the GT R-Spec.....

The 12.75 / 182kph is the R-Spec time.
GTS did a 12.59 / 187kph.

Not much in it really.

MITCHAY · 29-12-2013, 06:29 PM

I'm getting a major dose of déjà vu because this looks the same as the previous thread.

And at the end of it the GTS will still be faster and some people just can't deal with it.

Just be happy with what you got I reckon because I know I couldn't care how fast or slow a car was if I just couldn't live with it and that would make it irrelevant anyway. And both cars are seriously quick too at the end of the day.

duaned · 29-12-2013, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stazza

It makes me wonder sometimes with threads like this on a Ford forum. 90% of the posters bag Ford in one way or another. Fair enough if that's your opinion, but take it to a bombadore forum instead. Cheers.

I fail to see anyone here bagging the Ford product, particularly in this thread! Just facts stated.
Yes some of us here have converted to the red side. But only because we prefer what Holden offer in the VF. Once again it IS the better product! In every model in the range.
There is not a single review that states otherwise. But that's not saying your GS is rubbish. It is a great car, the FG is a good car. It's just outdated with tech and interior design that shows it's age compared to offerings from other marquis. Why get defensive about this when the truth is said?

AS for your comment on the list of problems with the VF well that list is smaller than you claim it to be. And the bulk of these are small niggly issues. None of which I have experienced with my VF. But if memory serves me right, the FG was in a similar situation. But alas, the bulk of the FG issues still remain. 5 years later and still not sorted! And you say the VF Commodore is a $hitbox?

Respect the offerings we have being built in Australia, they are coming to an end. Bagging Holden shows us you are not a car enthusiast. Just someone with a chip on their shoulder when a product is released that is superior to the one you already own.

Rodge · 29-12-2013, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prasac
googoo gaga whoops sorry i thought this was the let's be whiny babies thread

GT Pilot's signature line has seldom been more appropriate.

futura · 29-12-2013, 07:55 PM

Were the times run in the Rspec acheived using the launch control?

Auslandau · 29-12-2013, 09:15 PM

I think the times given and the comparison between a brand new model VS a 5 year old car makes the FPV still a viable proposition. What people are arguing about is the trinkets that make up the car .... not the performance or what makes the GT so good to some or the GTS better for others.

I am very happy to go without the very few trinkets to have a blown 5.0 that I paid well under 70k on the road, with a Ford (or at least FPV) badge. The interior suits me perfectly, in fact I find it easy to live with everyday ..... The VF? I personally think they have gone backwards in design. It is awkward and not modern looking .... and very little difference in power for way too much more money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by strik9

never a dull moment round here as soon as a holden is mentioned. pretty bloody immature i reckon.

Of course! Sometimes it feels like people who buy FPV's (on a FORD Forum) need to justify or argue why they love their cars ........ meanwhile ...... say anything bad against HSV and you are branded an idiot for not liking them. Has me beat why Ford or FPV owners have to continually justify their enjoyment of their cars ......... just maybe some need to accept that not everyone likes what they like. Immature possibly .... but it definately goes both ways

There is also nothing wrong with being Ford enthusiast or a Holden enthusiasts. Not everyone NEEDS to be a Motoring enthusiast. Each to their own ............

MethodX · 30-12-2013, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Can't wait till Holden's gone so we never have to hear about them again on this forum

Always Chevrolet, Cadillacs, Buicks, and Ferrari to talk about.

**Sorted** · 30-12-2013, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopped

The 12.75 / 182kph is the R-Spec time.
GTS did a 12.59 / 187kph.

Not much in it really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40RDT

For anyone interested in figures:

R Spec
0-100 = 4.67
Lap time = 1:08.8

GTS
0-100 = 4.55
Lap time = 1:05.6

Both cars auto btw

Yep not much in it - I would be a happy camper if I owned a GT Rspec - as stated by others put the same tyres on the GT Rspec and the GT Rspec may even be faster than a GTS - well done by Ford and FPV - all this with a car that has 95kw less badge, 1.2litre less engine and Less Tech - as some make out on here the GT Rspec is a dinosaur compared to the HSV GTS..........

So not much of a Win IMO for a far superior Current Tech car with all the Nizmo Gizmos any Motor Enthusiast needs apparently ........

Any Racer knows better tyres better times

FGX-351 · 30-12-2013, 10:25 AM

I blame Motor/Wheels for continually trying to recreate the "LS1 domination" crap for the result of this thread.

Rodge · 30-12-2013, 10:36 AM

Sorted, with respect I disagree. Beating a BMW M5 and E63 S (in wheels recent track comparison), both of which are shod with top of the line rubber puts the GTS into a different catagory.

Claiming an R Spec would match a GTS if Ford hadn't cheaped-out on the tyres brakes and "trinkets" as some people call them is a big call seeing as the HSV has V8 supercar sized brakes, forged wheels, torque vectoring, adjustable DSC and adjustable suspension incl track mode. Some of those "trinkets" would have gone down a real treat on an FPV if Ford had backed their performance arm better.

FPV are at least a generation behind and have no answer for the GTS, some people are objective and others...well, they're not.
Doesn't mean people's FPV's are no good, actually they're very good indeed for the money, for 2010 technology.

**Sorted** · 30-12-2013, 11:13 AM

Oops I edited my comment out that I only care about straight line speed - not around corners

I meant same tyres on the FPV GT Rspec for 0-100 and 1/4 mile

40RDT · 30-12-2013, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorted

Yep not much in it - I would be a happy camper if I owned a GT Rspec - as stated by others put the same tyres on the GT Rspec and the GT Rspec may even be faster than a GTS - well done by Ford and FPV - all this with a car that has 95kw less badge, 1.2litre less engine and Less Tech - as some make out on here the GT Rspec is a dinosaur compared to the HSV GTS..........

So not much of a Win IMO for a far superior Current Tech car with all the Nizmo Gizmos any Motor Enthusiast needs apparently ........

Any Racer knows better tyres better times

Did you even read the article?

b0son · 30-12-2013, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

FPV are at least a generation behind and have no answer for the GTS

Nor will they - the brand is being killed off and there's no money anyway. I think that's what ****** people off the most. The last hurrah from each company, and the GTS was the better car. HSV won.

**Sorted** · 30-12-2013, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorted

Yep not much in it - I would be a happy camper if I owned a GT Rspec - as stated by others put the same tyres on the GT Rspec and the GT Rspec may even be faster than a GTS - well done by Ford and FPV - all this with a car that has 95kw less badge, 1.2litre less engine and Less Tech - as some make out on here the GT Rspec is a dinosaur compared to the HSV GTS..........

So not much of a Win IMO for a far superior Current Tech car with all the Nizmo Gizmos any Motor Enthusiast needs apparently ........

Any Racer knows better tyres better times

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorted

Oops I edited my comment out that I only care about straight line speed - not around corners

I meant same tyres on the FPV GT Rspec for 0-100 and 1/4 mile

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Did you even read the article?

I will repost so ppl don't get confused and go off half assed as they do on here - Does that now make sense to you now

Or do I need to add the times as well for 0-100 and 1/4 mile

FGX-351 · 30-12-2013, 11:27 AM

But the powered up, intercooled next gen version of Miami was already developed prior to prodrive ceasing ownership.
They could still use it in the final FPV, it's all paid for so why not?
Apologies for O/T.

40RDT · 30-12-2013, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorted

I will repost so ppl don't get confused and go off half assed as they do on here - Does that now make sense to you now

Or do I need to add the times as well for 0-100 and 1/4 mile

Geez it was a simple question you don't need to have attitude

No need for times I have them all

b0son · 30-12-2013, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-ShowStoPPa

They could still use it in the final FPV

The final FPV is on sale now. Hard as that may be to accept...

FGX-351 · 30-12-2013, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

The final FPV is on sale now. Hard as that may be to accept...

Your very wrong.

40RDT · 30-12-2013, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

The final FPV is on sale now. Hard as that may be to accept...

Aren't they doing special releases or sticker packs next year?

Rockape · 30-12-2013, 11:52 AM

Imagine if Ford turned up the boost, intercooler, oversized brakes the hole shooting match on the new XR8. HSV gets beaten at the post by a Budget priced Falcon. Ford win.
Yes yes I know it will never happen.

b0son · 30-12-2013, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Aren't they doing special releases or sticker packs next year?

I meant in terms of mechanicals. Ford wont be doing anything substantial to the GT between now and FH to bring it on par with GTS. If they do, then we know where some of the retrenched Holden beancounters will have ended up.

Those hoping for more power, consider how much work has to be done. Durability testing, emissions, etc. Big $$$ for a car that will at best shift a few hundred units.

FGX-351 · 30-12-2013, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0son

I meant in terms of mechanicals. Ford wont be doing anything substantial to the GT between now and FH to bring it on par with GTS. If they do, then we know where some of the retrenched Holden beancounters will have ended up.

Those hoping for more power, consider how much work has to be done. Durability testing, emissions, etc. Big $$$ for a car that will at best shift a few hundred units.

They already have.
Prodrive tested and developed the more powerful intercooled version.
I hope they release it.

Chopped · 30-12-2013, 12:33 PM

I think the main problem for the Falcon is the chassis / body.
Wasn't the firewall breaking(cracking) when they were testing the intercooled version (more powerful) of the Miami?

Slightly off topic but do we know for sure (100%) that the new XR8 will even be supercharged ?

Bossxr8 · 30-12-2013, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodge

Do you realise that GM has paid all the money back now mate ?

Not even close Rodge. They fell $10 billion short which the US taxpayers have to fit the bill for. Not to mention the creditors they owed money too when they went bankrupt who got stuck holding the ball.

And not to even mention the money they used to pay back the government was taken from other money the US Government loaned them

They called it the "TARP reshuffle", taking funds from other government bailout money and using it to appear like they had payed the money back. What a bunch of unethical scumbags. Some US Senators called it "a lie to the American people".

GM have to be one of the shonkiest companies in history. Some of the execs should be charged with fraud.