Illegal to raise/lower more than 5cm?

[Nikked]

Meh, more people will do it dodgy now. 'Sif people are going to pay for quality stuff that is delectable now?

50mm is a stupid blanket rule, another law that defies commonsense and fills up MP's pockets with money. The measurement isn't the main thing to worry about, its the lack of a properly researched action.

A good set of SL Springs (can put your car below 50mm) mached with a good shock does wonders for handling and grip.

[NC1183]

I'm currently looking at buying a newer ute, which was from factory lowered more then the XR model at the time. I can't/won't be able to get it before this new law comes in, and i have to go for a 'blueslip' anyway, will it affect me based on what people know

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by flappist

Oh no they are all out to get you....

Two points here:

1) This only applies to vehicles registered in NSW.

If you have a Vic/QLD registered vehicle then said vehicle must comply with the local state rules. Remember SA P platers can drive V8s and turbos in NSW and up until recently QLD P platers did not need P plates on their cars even when interstate or could ride any motorcycle regardless of capacity if they had done Q-ride.
It used to be common practice to register V8 converted cortinas and capris in NSW as it was illegal up here but interstate is exempt.

2) As I read it, if the suspension mods are done by an authorised person OR the components are factory or approved aftermarket components e.g. XR suspension on a XT or Bilstein coilover kit then and the difference is less than 51mm then there is no problem.
On the other hand if the change is greater than 50mm OR it is a fully sick hacksaw job then it has to be investigated by an engineer.

I agree with this totally. It is far to easy to totally stuff the dynamics of a vehicle in the name of uber-kewl-osity.
You need an engineer to certify an engine change or other major modification and modern vehicles are quite complex with safety systems they rely on static parameters.
Some vehicles can be modified by far more than 50mm and be perfectly safe, many cannot. You do not change your suspension every week so what is the problem?

What this will (or at least should) reduce is the number of home brew fast and furious maccas dwellers who drift onto your side of the road on a tight corner because their tyres are skipping.

i know that its only in NSW......... at the moment. wait and see. plus it's only a matter of time before the nationalise rules as well, especially with the mish mash between states.

[Kenay]

ok boys and girls it is very sad times for all car enthusiast's around the country...
one of my best friends designes and engineers suspension at arb's head plant in kilsyth vic, he has just informed me tonight after 9 months of adr testing and sh** with the (DOTAR??)dipartment of infatractur and transport bla bla bla...
that they where unsuccessful to changing there minds on this law...
now as you guys are reading this thread most of you dont realise this is only the first attack they are weeks from completing the national law that will include everything that has been stated in the law below...
the best thing we can alll do atm is hit up our local mp to try and get them to pull there heads on straight and see sense.... well that was his suggestion imo we should all (every modified car owner in australia) go up to parlament house and make sure we are heard the problem with this is it only take one person to rev there car or do a whealy and the cause is lost.. i will attach these pdf's some how and leave it to you guys...
p.s for everyone in nsw im sorry you get the new law first all i can recomend is get an affidavit stating that your car has been modified b4 1st augaust 2009


LONG LIVE THE DAYS

[Ross-b]

Originally Posted by Kenay

ok boys and girls it is very sad times for all car enthusiast's around the country...
one of my best friends designes and engineers suspension at arb's head plant in kilsyth vic, he has just informed me tonight after 9 months of adr testing and sh** with the (DOTAR??)dipartment of infatractur and transport bla bla bla...
that they where unsuccessful to changing there minds on this law...
now as you guys are reading this thread most of you dont realise this is only the first attack they are weeks from completing the national law that will include everything that has been stated in the law below...
the best thing we can alll do atm is hit up our local mp to try and get them to pull there heads on straight and see sense.... well that was his suggestion imo we should all (every modified car owner in australia) go up to parlament house and make sure we are heard the problem with this is it only take one person to rev there car or do a whealy and the cause is lost.. i will attach these pdf's some how and leave it to you guys...
p.s for everyone in nsw im sorry you get the new law first all i can recomend is get an affidavit stating that your car has been modified b4 1st augaust 2009


LONG LIVE THE DAYS

how do i go about doing that?

[Kenay]

for an affidavit i think thats how its spelt just goto a police station or chemist i guees get them to take a photo and sign it

[4Vman]

Looks like far more effort went into this than some believe.. the PDF of VSB50 is comprehensive and in many ways compelling.

[Kenay]

most definitely they didnt stuff around like i said my mates has been fighting this for 9 months
all this info was released today but there are sections in this law that are no free to the publics eyes

[AussieCJ7]

Edit the link has now been updated

For those who wish to sign a petition one has been arranged here http://www.thepetitionsite.com/94/he...ed-cars-in-nsw

[Kenay]

its been removed mate

[AussieCJ7]

Originally Posted by Kenay

its been removed mate

damn that was quick :Up_to_som


Fixed url

[ltd_on20s]

Date of commencement
This VSI applies to vehicles modified or presented to an AUVIS after 31 July 2009


"or presented to an AUVIS after 31 july........"


what a disaster... they could practically defect every sigle car on the road under "suspicion" of being too low, there is no narrow definition for a cops discretion on this.......


what strikes me is this a systematic targeting of something, overriding current laws on lowering your vehicle. do now police have to carry a book on ride heights of every car type in australia? and a measuring tape?

[atec77]

Originally Posted by Ross-b

nope it says that ANY change in height is considered a MAJOR mod meaning it needs engineering. and even after that we cant go lower then 50 mm.

ive got ssl in the rear of mt xt where does that leave me? after the cash i spent on new shocks springs bump stops alignments and camber adjustments. have i really modified the car un safely?

It will be very hard to enforce , simple fac is if you swap parts with in a model range it's legal to do so and say a model has a sports pack then all can use that ride height , I drove for years in an EL wagon with a 65 mm drop all round , never got picked on as it was in effect only 12 mm lower than a gt / ( and I am oldish)

[King Nothing]

Guys and Girls, this is very, very serious. This is a declaration of war on car enthusiasts. If you think this is the start, then you are wrong. This is really only the beginning. With this one plan, they will wipe out any suspension modifications in NSW. And the other states will follow soon, don't worry.

They will not stop there. Next it will be exhaust modifications. Then aftermarket wheels. Then tints. Then aftermarket engine management systems. Places like CAPA will go out of business. I am not joking, they already show that they do not care about the aftermarket community by not consulting anyone, Pedders will attest to that.

The pollies won't care, because it looks like they are doing something. To distract us from the state that is falling apart around us.

[JC]

Originally Posted by King Nothing

I am not joking, they already show that they do not care about the aftermarket community by not consulting anyone, Pedders will attest to that.

As I said in an earlier post, this is not a new proposal. This law has been coming for at least the last 10 years (check the PDF links a few posts above) and has had industry consultation; industry don't agree with everything in it, but even the industry recognise that some things will change, so they will move with it.

The biggest change will be that when you buy a set of King Springs, they should be certified to say they meet certain standards - a bit like emmissions compliance for post 2004 vehicles for LPg installations. The certificate won't come with every kit, but will be issued for a particular part number for use on a particular car/model. I'd say as long as you can prove you have that part number, the AUVIS inspection should be a snap.

At the end of the day, whatever can be done to get dangerous cars off our raods should be done; if the definition of dangerous includes cars lowered more than 50mm, then I'm inclined to agree with that as anything lower than 2" lower than a GT or XR is crazy - there is no effective rebound or bounce control when the car is that low.

Obviously, lowering an XT by 500m doesn't get you quite so low, but if you want low in the first place, \pat the few extra bob over an XT and get an XR (lots of people do anyway).

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by JC

As I said in an earlier post, this is not a new proposal. This law has been coming for at least the last 10 years (check the PDF links a few posts above) and has had industry consultation; industry don't agree with everything in it, but even the industry recognise that some things will change, so they will move with it.

The biggest change will be that when you buy a set of King Springs, they should be certified to say they meet certain standards - a bit like emmissions compliance for post 2004 vehicles for LPg installations. The certificate won't come with every kit, but will be issued for a particular part number for use on a particular car/model. I'd say as long as you can prove you have that part number, the AUVIS inspection should be a snap.

At the end of the day, whatever can be done to get dangerous cars off our raods should be done; if the definition of dangerous includes cars lowered more than 50mm, then I'm inclined to agree with that as anything lower than 2" lower than a GT or XR is crazy - there is no effective rebound or bounce control when the car is that low.

Obviously, lowering an XT by 500m doesn't get you quite so low, but if you want low in the first place, \pat the few extra bob over an XT and get an XR (lots of people do anyway).

JC, have a look at this thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...74#post2762774

It clearly states that the AAAA, nor Pedders, did not know that this proposal was coming. The general communitiy didn't know it was coming.

As I said earlier, I am not opposed to getting dangerously modified cars off of the road. But the way that this has been handled is insanity. It's pandemonium on a number of forums, especially the 4wd ones. No one knows what exactly is the law, when it applies or what cars it applies to, not even the technical division within the RTA. There are even calls that it is unconstitutional. I'm not a lawyer so I don't quite understand it, but it's been put out there by those that do understand.

Apparently engineers have been informed to not sign off on anything after the 17/7, the day after the press release and two weeks before the proposed changes come into effect. It reeks.

Cars that were perfectly legal last week, people who have spent the money to properly lower or raise cars and engineer them within the 50-150mm bracket, those cars will now be illegal. Is that fair? They followed the law to the letter and they are left out in the dark. Will the NSW government offer a buyback scheme to return previously compliant vehicles to standard, much like the firearm buyback scheme? I think not.

Do I now need to, at my own expense, have my falcon engineered when under previous laws it was perfectly 'safe'? Or will the government pay this for me?

[jaysway]

whats it cost to have a car engineered in NSW?

[AussieCJ7]

Depends on level of modification mine was around $900 about 2 years ago and my modifications were fairly simple of nature but there is a lot of them covering all major subsystems

[Rob]

How are they going to enforce this? Everyone is going to say the car was lowered prior to the required date.

Not that the police will believe it...

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by Rob

How are they going to enforce this? Everyone is going to say the car was lowered prior to the required date.

Not that the police will believe it...

And therein lies the heart of the problem. The police pull you over, and defect you for a car that was lowered legally 2 years ago. You now need to present your vehicle to an AUVIS. Since it would be after July 31st, you will fall under the new rules, and fail.

[Rob]

Goddamn nanny state...

It's only a matter of time before it hits Vic.

[ltd_on20s]

for something like this to come out without ANY consultation of ANY peak motoring bodies, any form of reporting of stats of lowered cars being involved in accidents, any stats on how lowered cars have affected the outcome of accident, smacks of a biased law coming out to directly affect one community without the evidence to back it up, with it being heavily in favour of hearsay evidence.


surely this is circumventing correct procedure with lawmaking.......


now if someone gets pinged for a car being too low, whats to say that person cannot circumvent AUVIS and appeal directly to the courts citing some of the above points, and ask the state govt to provide the evidence that their car being at that ride height has compromised it's safety?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

for something like this to come out without ANY consultation of ANY peak motoring bodies, any form of reporting of stats of lowered cars being involved in accidents, any stats on how lowered cars have affected the outcome of accident, smacks of a biased law coming out to directly affect one community without the evidence to back it up, with it being heavily in favour of hearsay evidence.


surely this is circumventing correct procedure with lawmaking.......


now if someone gets pinged for a car being too low, whats to say that person cannot circumvent AUVIS and appeal directly to the courts citing some of the above points, and ask the state govt to provide the evidence that their car being at that ride height has compromised it's safety?

You really need to go and educate yourself about how legislation is passed in parliament, govt process and jurisdiction of law before jumping to some of those conclusions.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You really need to go and educate yourself about how legislation is passed in parliament, govt process and jurisdiction of law before jumping to some of those conclusions.

evidence for as to why a new law being passed still has to be presented to make it viable. theres no evidence that a lowered car increases hoon behaviour or danger if done correctly. this new law DOES'NT care whether is done correctly or not. 5cm thats it, and still has to be inspected. 2 inches in the old language.

(yes i know that a heavily lowered car can affect handling dynamics, but we all know a properly lowered or raised car can increase the stability of the vehicle.)

whats wrong with the current way of doing things? the laws already exist.

this new law makes potentially every single car on the road defectable from the start.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

evidence for as to why a new law being passed still has to be presented to make it viable. theres no evidence that a lowered car increases hoon behaviour or danger if done correctly. this new law DOES'NT care whether is done correctly or not. 5cm thats it, and still has to be inspected. 2 inches in the old language.

(yes i know that a heavily lowered car can affect handling dynamics, but we all know a properly lowered or raised car can increase the stability of the vehicle.)

whats wrong with the current way of doing things? the laws already exist.

this new law makes potentially every single car on the road defectable from the start.

Out of curiosity have you read the PDF of the VSB50 with all the explanations?

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Out of curiosity have you read the PDF of the VSB50 with all the explanations?

yeah dude, i did

"Date of commencement
This VSI applies to vehicles modified or presented to an AUVIS after 31 July 2009."

=retro active. any car presented, no matter if the work done was safe or not, and whether it was legal previous to the new proposed laws.

"Once a vehicle has been raised or lowered, it must be checked by an Authorised Examiner at an
Authorised Unregistered Vehicle Inspection Station (AUVIS) inspection, commonly referred to as a ‘blue
slip’ inspection."

no faith that the suspension manufacturers are complying with the law. this overrides them, and all the effort they took to make springs and equipment to lower or raise cars complient is now a waste of time. it practically makes half the inventory illegal.

"any raising or lowering of a vehicle from it's original ride height is a major modification, and limits the change"

to 5 cm. no if's , no buts. put bf gt-p springs in a base falcon and presto, you a now driving a illegal vehicle.

drop you old xy by 5 cm. wow you can really notice the difference.....

once your old xy sitting over convo pro's gets stopped, you might as well throw the car away...unless you wish to drive around in something you see in pics from the 70's...

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Out of curiosity have you read the PDF of the VSB50 with all the explanations?

Like effecting DSC systems, when the vast majority of cars on the roads don't have it?

Like trajectory of headlights, which is easily fixed by turning a couple of screws?

Like ground clearance, which is already regulated by the 100mm rule and repeated in this document?

Like occupant protection, does less than 5cm make a difference when hitting something? Where is the evidence? Surely the spatial position of the car relative to what it hits can vary by this amount.

Like unexpected vehicle behaviour? People who have properly engineered and installed systems that were perfectly safe a week ago?

Like the rest of the reasons given, relevant only to raised cars?

It was clear that you had not read it properly either when I pointed out to you earlier that all changes needed engineering certification.

Trust me, this is the beginning. It has evolved over the last few years from P-platers, to P-plate hoons, to hoons, and now to anyone owning a modified vehicle. This has been handled extremely badly, and shows what a desperate situation the NSW government is in to try and appear like it is doing something, anything.

[FlipXW]

Hmmm doesn't sound good from what im gathering;
The XY gone, the XB gone, the XR8 gone, my bros Patrol (2 inch lift) gone, my sis' EB gone. Doesn't look good for this family. All of which are legal at this time : .

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by PhilXY

Hmmm doesn't sound good from what im gathering;
The XY gone, the XB gone, the XR8 gone, my bros Patrol (2 inch lift) gone, my sis' EB gone. Doesn't look good for this family. All of which are legal at this time : .

Yep, that's 5 cars potentially off the road. How many are daily drivers?

If my car is defected, how am I supposed to get to work? Public transport will not get me to work on time. Could I potentially lose my job, because Mr Daley thinks a small drop in ride height means I will burst into flames and ram a bus full of school children off the road? How many other people have slightly lowered daily drivers that could be off the road, even for a short time? It's insanity.

[BRG 40L]

If your not doing anything wrong you wont attract the police attention, its only when u done speeding or something illegal cops wanna get you for everything while they are at it, unless your car is tucking some rim or rubber then well its the obvious lol