No More Commodore or Astra

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Usual deal they probably outsourcing the programming to some Indian bloke for $3/hour whose never driven a car before but is handy with a keyboard.

I'm currently caught up between three separate IT companies who are collaborating on a project, I'm helping as they need my perspective and you can imagine how well this is going with so many fingers in the pie with no experience on how the process works.

Usual accountants doing their trick - save on wages but pay exponentially more on the project.

You think hiring professionals is expensive, wait until you hire amateurs.

I think that was what Boeing did with the software for their new 737. That didn't go well.

[Dr Terry]

I believe the last straw was when Opel was sold to PSA.

Holden really needed a med/large RWD car to fill the bill, but the FWD/AWD Insignia was the best they had available in RHD.

Once the PSA deal was done, they had no say in product development, no chance of a 2nd/better upgrade model or any bargaining power $$wise.

From there it was all downhill.

What they need is a "unique" product. Something like a V8 petrol dual cab or another RWD car in the future.

What they might do is revert to the dealers becoming "GM Dealers" where they could sell Chevs, Cadillacs, Corvettes or whatever.

One of the most difficult things to do selling cars in Aust. is setting up a good dealer network. Look what Holden have available to them.

Dr Terry.

[xr8territory]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I believe the last straw was when Opel was sold to PSA.

Holden really needed a med/large RWD car to fill the bill, but the FWD/AWD Insignia was the best they had available in RHD.

Once the PSA deal was done, they had no say in product development, no chance of a 2nd/better upgrade model or any bargaining power $$wise.

From there it was all downhill.

What they need is a "unique" product. Something like a V8 petrol dual cab or another RWD car in the future.

What they might do is revert to the dealers becoming "GM Dealers" where they could sell Chevs, Cadillacs, Corvettes or whatever.

One of the most difficult things to do selling cars in Aust. is setting up a good dealer network. Look what Holden have available to them.

Dr Terry.

I agree with you Doc, they do have a large capable network, but those products you suggest such as Chevs, Cadillacs Corvettes etc, are just not in the pipeline. They would be signalling those products right now if that was there intent. They are essentially saying nothing about future products and that is very telling. There are none. Its show over.

[Bossxr8]

Justification for making any of those models in RHD is virtually zero. GM only has a couple of RHD markets to sell too, and they will never sell in high volumes.

Makes me wonder why they are bothering to do a RHD Corvette that will only sell in tiny numbers. Only thing I can think of is being rear engined makes it easy a pie to switch the steering wheel from one side to the other, with no engine getting in the way of steering, brake booster etc.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Justification for making any of those models in RHD is virtually zero. GM only has a couple of RHD markets to sell too, and they will never sell in high volumes.

Makes me wonder why they are bothering to do a RHD Corvette that will only sell in tiny numbers. Only thing I can think of is being rear engined makes it easy a pie to switch the steering wheel from one side to the other, with no engine getting in the way of steering, brake booster etc.

You'd think so but I'm sure that American engineers will find a way to stuff that up....

[MITCHAY]

About two years late but thank ****. Unless they were hoping to pull off a fluke by slapping a Commodore badge on or just working with what they have and trying to flog it, you'd have to wonder what the thought process was otherwise.

The buyers who love Commodores cars were never likely to buy one (especially without a V8 option) and for the others the Commodore badge would be enough to turn them off or they were just not in for a large car.

I thought this was a good read which I stumbled across after this news as it talks a bit about the management and relationship with GM rather than all the usual that was a factor with the demise of the auto industry as a whole.

https://www.whichcar.com.au/features...actory-closure

[roddy1960]

....Ghost company now...Just a fading spirit hanging on to memories of a former life..

How does this affect the Supercars future over time or can they effectively race a car facsimile that is no longer built for years like ford did with Falcon for 2017 and 2018 before the Mustang shape was adopted ...I have no idea..

[Eaturbo]

The way Ford and Holden/GM are going they will both be finished by 2030. Toyota and Hyundai are slowly pushing them out. First they targeted there passenger cars and next will be there big utes and SUVs. Look at the Tundra and Titan. Biggest mistake ever to stop selling passenger cars and focus on one class.

[MITCHAY]

Ford at least have good cars. Why they are not selling is another thing entirely.

Holden switched to cheap crap Korean sourcing and that was part of the problem. I could see myself in a Ford other than a Falcon, I would not buy anything Holden are offering now.

The funny thing is GM didn't want to do RHD and now we're pay huge amounts to convert various models which are enjoying at least at the moment good success.

In the article I mentioned before it was pointed out how Holden were able to do LHD conversions for export but GM never were able or keen to do the same for RHD. You would think it would be a lot easier for them.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

....Ghost company now...Just a fading spirit hanging on to memories of a former life..

How does this affect the Supercars future over time or can they effectively race a car facsimile that is no longer built for years like ford did with Falcon for 2017 and 2018 before the Mustang shape was adopted ...I have no idea..

Don't worry Roddy they've always smoothed the path for anything Holden wants at Least they'll finally stop whining about Mustangs aero

[EBSXR6]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Ford at least have good cars. Why they are not selling is another thing entirely.

Ford not selling many cars I believe is due to the bad treatment from the company and dealers. The Powershift Transmission is just one instance that has left a lot of ill feeling in the community. I know Ford no longer uses the Powershift transmission but if you been given the runaround and treated like an idiot why would you buy a Ford again. Plenty of other options in the market.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

Ford not selling many cars I believe is due to the bad treatment from the company and dealers. The Powershift Transmission is just one instance that has left a lot of ill feeling in the community. I know Ford no longer uses the Powershift transmission but if you been given the runaround and treated like an idiot why would you buy a Ford again. Plenty of other options in the market.

Not withstanding Ford’s history of mistreating customers, I think price plays a big part in lack of sales success, $26k for Ecosport when Picanto starts at $17k, Focus starts near $29k when the others are low 20s, Mondeo starts $37k when Camry is low 30s

Cars are going away but Ford is giving cross shoppers absolutely no reason to even look At theirs

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not withstanding Ford’s history of mistreating customers, I think price plays a big part in lack of sales success, $26k for Ecosport when Picanto starts at $17k, Focus starts near $29k when the others are low 20s, Mondeo starts $37k when Camry is low 30s

Cars are going away but Ford is giving cross shoppers absolutely no reason to even look At theirs

Agree 100% they don't have anything for the lower end of the market.

[Franco Cozzo]

While we're talking about Commodores - there is a good summary of the VF Commodore:



They're on the money with the infotainment system being junk compared to the Euros, was driving our VF SV6 company car around, the stereo sound quality absolutely sucks, less bass than my LV Focus

Its also something non car people hold high value with, we had a Mazda 6 company car and it had the Bose stereo and our rep says the Mazda was a better car and talks about the stereo even though it had circa 50% of the power and drove like a turtle upside down on its back.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They're on the money with the infotainment system being junk compared to the Euros, was driving our VF SV6 company car around, the stereo sound quality absolutely sucks, less bass than my LV Focus

Its also something non car people hold high value with, we had a Mazda 6 company car and it had the Bose stereo and our rep says the Mazda was a better car and talks about the stereo even though it had circa 50% of the power and drove like a turtle upside down on its back.

To the average Punter who spends most of their "drive time" commuting to & from Work in heavy traffic. The Infotainment system IS more important than Performance & Handling.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hayseed

To the average Punter who spends most of their "drive time" commuting to & from Work in heavy traffic. The Infotainment system IS more important than Performance & Handling.

Absolutely, I do a lot of driving around Melbourne's inner suburbia and CBD and it doesn't matter what's under the hood it's all about how well the HVAC and infotainment system works.

Though when I'm commuting to and from work I have a 60km stretch of country highway and Melbourne Freeway, having something torquey is essential - until the last 2km of the 62km trip where it takes 15 minutes plus to travel that last stretch

[au2000]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not withstanding Ford’s history of mistreating customers, I think price plays a big part in lack of sales success, $26k for Ecosport when Picanto starts at $17k, Focus starts near $29k when the others are low 20s, Mondeo starts $37k when Camry is low 30s

Cars are going away but Ford is giving cross shoppers absolutely no reason to even look At theirs

It's a mix of both, fords new slogan should be

ford : Audi prices with Great Wall customer service !

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Did PSA actually get it back into profit or was GM doing creative accounting to serve a purpose?

Tim foil hats on from this point forward - Fake News Franco reporting 'alternative facts'

I'd say a bit of both, reporting a profit usually means paying some tax....I say usually as you never know in the corporate world what is actually going on, so saying you're back in the black can support your initial purchase, while conversely GM definately needed as much "reason" to sell...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I'd say a bit of both, reporting a profit usually means paying some tax....I say usually as you never know in the corporate world what is actually going on, so saying you're back in the black can support your initial purchase, while conversely GM definately needed as much "reason" to sell...

For GM it was a case of stopping the money bleeding by taking a $4billion hit and PSA basically got to take over Opel Vauxhall with far less overheads than GM had, dead legging GM legacy platforms in return for completing supply contracts to Holden and Buick. The strategy sounds weird until you realise that this is just a contingency until 2021 when PSA will use its own platforms, that’s when Opel Vauxhall really turn the corner and become profitable

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Cav

So what exactly went wrong with the Commodore?

Was the change of ownership of manufacturer the final knife in its back?

Ultimately yes.
I think they have a bit longer to run on the Insignia, but Opel are moving everything to PSA platforms.
That said, I imagine they could have potentially shifted to Korean production and rebadged the current generation Malibu. But I gather its future is also uncertain.

If they wanted to compete, what they needed was the Hybrid model, but weirdly GM are phasing that out.

I think Holden grossly overestimated loyalty to the Badge, rather than the car.

Did would be Falcon buyers run out and start buying Mondeos? No, we go looking for good late-model Falcons.
The Falcon and Commodore were unique. Powerful RWD cars at a bang for buck price, and locally made to boot.
Government, Fleet, and Taxis account for a lot of Camry sales, and if you want to compete there you need a Hybrid.
Worse, Camry is actually gaining transaction because Toyota has finally succeeded in turning the car market into a whitegoods market.

Then there is competition on price form the Koreans, and on luxury from the Europeans.

Putting aside money as a consideration, if I were told to go out and buy a new car I liked, as an otherwise Falcon buyer, I would go for a Jag, not a Mondeo.

[roddy1960]

Like I said before I reckon the 'new' Commodore is actually a really nice car .Especially now I've seen a few and spoken to an enthusiastic owner of one which happened to be the first one I saw up close. He absolutely loved his , that's for sure .

If in fact it is a really good car it's a real shame it's winding up . Maybe the head honcho's at Holden are now truly regretting not retiring the Commodore name and releasing the family car as heaven forbid , The Insignia..

I'm suggesting that a lot of GM buyers probably boycotted the car simply because the didn't regard it as a proper Commodore ..

Astra I know nothing about so I have no idea on that . Then again my theory on the Commodore is probably a mile off too .

GMH are in huge trouble now , very sorry to say .

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

I think Holden grossly overestimated loyalty to the Badge, rather than the car.

Did would be Falcon buyers run out and start buying Mondeos? No, we go looking for good late-model Falcons.
The Falcon and Commodore were unique. Powerful RWD cars at a bang for buck price, and locally made to boot.
Government, Fleet, and Taxis account for a lot of Camry sales, and if you want to compete there you need a Hybrid.
Worse, Camry is actually gaining transaction because Toyota has finally succeeded in turning the car market into a whitegoods market.

Then there is competition on price form the Koreans, and on luxury from the Europeans.

Putting aside money as a consideration, if I were told to go out and buy a new car I liked, as an otherwise Falcon buyer, I would go for a Jag, not a Mondeo.

Absolutely agree, including the Jag bit. XE + XF as Falcon replacements (you can get a smaller one!) and F-Pace to replace Terry. If money were no object. RWD and RWD biased AWD. The supercharged petrol V6 sounds amazing too and they have just done an INLINE 6. After Bojo's election victory there will be A LOT of money flowing north in the UK and their car manufacturing is going to benefit greatly - hopefully more product with that Unique Selling Point of RWD.

And spot on for looking for good late model Falcons, we are lucky that this is still an option for now.

[tranquilized]

Whether it was badged Commodore or Insignia it wouldn't have made much difference. It sold well for the segment it was competing in.

If they called it Insignia it probably would have sold slightly less (or slightly more?) but not poisoned the brand like it has as the fau-commodore.

[Burnout]

Its is a shame, aint it.
I've got to find some one else to laugh at, although the BIL has a VF SS wagoon, which I call the Hearse.
'Spose I'll have to giggle about VW, Jeep and Co. now. And the BIL.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Like I said before I reckon the 'new' Commodore is actually a really nice car .Especially now I've seen a few and spoken to an enthusiastic owner of one which happened to be the first one I saw up close. He absolutely loved his , that's for sure .

If in fact it is a really good car it's a real shame it's winding up . Maybe the head honcho's at Holden are now truly regretting not retiring the Commodore name and releasing the family car as heaven forbid , The Insignia..

I'm suggesting that a lot of GM buyers probably boycotted the car simply because the didn't regard it as a proper Commodore ..

Astra I know nothing about so I have no idea on that . Then again my theory on the Commodore is probably a mile off too .

GMH are in huge trouble now , very sorry to say .

Entirely agree.The Insignia is a very good vehicle.Just has not been accepted by the OZ buying public.Use to do very good numbers in Europe(72,000 odd units last year & around 67,000 units this year) mind you they are around the #100 in rankings.It peaked @ around 137,000 units quite a few years ago.Real shame it has been axed.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Eaturbo

The way Ford and Holden/GM are going they will both be finished by 2030. Toyota and Hyundai are slowly pushing them out. First they targeted there passenger cars and next will be there big utes and SUVs. Look at the Tundra and Titan. Biggest mistake ever to stop selling passenger cars and focus on one class.

How Ford is performing here in australia is largely irrelevant to the success of the company globally. Although they are largely profitable here, which is all they need to be. Can't see Holden being in anything other than red ink though.

Originally Posted by au2000

It's a mix of both, fords new slogan should be

ford : Audi prices with Great Wall customer service !

Actually Ford finished equal first with mazda in the last customer satisfaction surveys. They have really spent a lot of time trying to turn this around and it looks like it's finally paying off.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...action-121672/

[au2000]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

How Ford is performing here in australia is largely irrelevant to the success of the company globally. Although they are largely profitable here, which is all they need to be. Can't see Holden being in anything other than red ink though.



Actually Ford finished equal first with mazda in the last customer satisfaction surveys. They have really spent a lot of time trying to turn this around and it looks like it's finally paying off.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...action-121672/

Love to see the same survey cover their after sales service & customer complaints .... That survey totally ignores how Ford treat their customers when problems arise....

[DFB FGXR6]

https://www.caradvice.com.au/814216/...final-autopsy/

I haven't always agreed with what the author has written, but the above article has some interesting points.

"Even the most diehard followers found themselves choosing vehicles that better suited their lifestyles – and the buyers who did stay faithful often bought used cars, which did little to help the local Holden and Ford factories churning out new cars."

"One element difficult to measure was the apparent arrogance of Holden as the company ended local manufacturing and switched to becoming solely a vehicle importer, like everyone else."

"Holden wrongly assumed orders for the imported Commodore would be a formality, and so it didn’t make any particular effort to earn that business. Executives thought the orders would come in as night followed day."

"Dealers who spoke to CarAdvice on condition of anonymity believe Holden needs to be more direct in its advertising rather than trying to build brand image. “We need to sell cars, and none of the ads since the end of manufacturing have said simply ‘here’s the car, here’s the price, this is why you should buy one,” said a veteran Holden dealer. “Instead they’ve got ads with idiots stealing a painting and driving around the countryside. How does that help me sell cars, how does that help anyone know about how much those cars are or how they compare to the competition?”".

[Franco Cozzo]

We've finally got worse ads than the FG Falcon launch walking fingers BS

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

We've finally got worse ads than the FG Falcon launch walking fingers BS

We knew Holden's advertising gurus had their heads up their *****, when they brilliantly went to the expense of running ads, just to rub in the fact that they were abandoning Australia.