More power for Australia's fastest car

[LoudPipes]

The term Dyno Queen comes to mind.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by asagaai

I took my XR8 for a blast tonight on a empty rural road with some tight corners and nice valleys/troughs, and compared to an AMC 63 with "less peak power", my car did not feel like it had the same sting, and I thought about it afterwards- between 4,000 to 6200 the XR8 flies.

This is my biggest hate on my BF GT and been the drama since 2003. Not having riven a S/C 5.0, it's sounds like its still an issue. You have a 2,000rpm useable torque band before it hits the limiter, which makes the car a dog to drive, especial manuals. That is why the F6 is such a good proposition.

[mcnews]

Agree with you to a point there Stefan, the 8 is so neutered until 4000rpm, I am sure a tune fixes that up though. But yes it doesn't feel as though it will ever have that 2000-4000rpm massive tidal wave of torque that a tuned F6 does.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Agree with you to a point there Stefan, the 8 is so neutered until 4000rpm, I am sure a tune fixes that up though. But yes it doesn't feel as though it will ever have that 2000-4000rpm massive tidal wave of torque that a tuned F6 does.

Tuned is different, my brothers tuned 290 is much better, but when I say tuned he has full exhaust, Y/T intake, cai and then tuned, not sure maybe cammed too. Not much change from 10k in mods just to get to a useable state.

Same mods to F6 and the 8 is behind again.

Shame I love the v8 sound so put up with its shortcommings

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

And do you keep quoting results from the dyno test that was a total sham.....or are you talking about the redone test with actual unbiased engineers and dyno operators on hand? You keep mentioning 6 runs for the ford. But it did NINE....so I'm confused if your on the right page or not?

Yes, im quoting the test as done with both engineers present, the link is back on pg2 in post #60 (1st link)
The falcon did 3 runs at herrods and was then driven to DD and run a further 6 times.
It started off at 292kw at Herrods and gradually raised to 343kw on the 5th run (or 8th in total if you like) before beginning to drop off on the 6th (or 9th if you consider both workshops) run.
You have to look at the read out on the monitor (9:40) to see the results of the 6 runs at DD.
I can understand why your confused, you obviously only listen to the commentry and not take notice of the visuals as shown.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Tuned is different, my brothers tuned 290 is much better, but when I say tuned he has full exhaust, Y/T intake, cai and then tuned, not sure maybe cammed too. Not much change from 10k in mods just to get to a useable state.

Same mods to F6 and the 8 is behind again.

Shame I love the v8 sound so put up with its shortcommings

Quick and total fix for the 290 is diff gears. Ditch all the rest of the mods and you only need @2k to make the 290 a more enjoyable drive. Despite what many say..the 290 will spin to 6300 - 6500 and still be making power so the diff gears fill the bottom end gap and then some. Why they didn't just experiment more with rear end ratios for these cars is beyond me. Fuel economy is never really a high priority with these purchases so it wouldn't have mattered if it drank an extra 3 litres over 100klm.
Everyone that has done diff gears have a smile ear to ear and all the Boss engined cars with lower ratios ( numerically higher ) that I have been in go like stink. Hell...my old 351 powered XE ESP was a dog until it got some love and a stall converter and some 3.23 rear end gears. Before that it was rubbish.....

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by nz13boy

Its not hate talk. Its Documented facts. The GtS is BETTER. DOSENT MEAN THE GTF IS SHYTE.

The GTF is a very competent car. Looks pretty nice and goes hard. Looks like it definitely has investment potential.

The GTS has less power atw yet is quicker to 100 and quicker to 400m. Go figure.

Corners better, has lotza gizmos for techheads but looks kinda crap. Meh.

Your blowing about a GtF being more powerful then a Gts and waffling on about how nothing else matters?:

Do you live live on planet DYNO? Where every blind Freddy walks everywhere and all arguments/comparisons about a cars performance is settled with Dyno Sheets? and not on the road or track?

As a fpv owner who loves his F6s straight line pull (and very little else about the car) has owned a 335 GTP and driven both GTF and GTS Im not blinded by stupid brand loyalty. Listen to the Media but Im not a slave to them.

Stating the obvious dosent make us haters. Certainly dosent make us "clowns".

Just like you ignoring the obvious dosent make you a clown. Although, appearances can be deceptive.......

As I said earlier. These posts are like Ground Hog day. Same ****, different day. Might go see if Hulks actually going to bay a car....or if hes just being Hulk....

Way to take everything out of context and prove my point about talking about everything bar the most important topic.. I've personally said many times the GTS is an awesome performing car,handling tech and so on. But THIS particular topic was about POWER and none of you muppets are willing to accept that the FORD GT is Australia's most powerful Aussie car.
And there's a million examples of less powerful cars beating more powerful cars.....but that's not supposed to be the topic......

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

and none of you muppets are willing to accept that the FORD GT is Australia's most powerful .....

Muppets.....
Miss piggy , kermit , gonzo , scooter , fozzie . Didn't realise they were posting in this thread ?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

But THIS particular topic was about POWER and none of you muppets are willing to accept that the FORD GT is Australia's most powerful Aussie car.

Not true, i have said a few times that at the moment it is Australias most powerful car, i also realise that HSV isnt done yet and they may well reclaim that title which is what this whole thread was about.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Not true, i have said a few times that at the moment it is Australias most powerful car, i also realise that HSV isnt done yet and they may well reclaim that title which is what this whole thread was about.

Yeah well that makes one of you
And the latest news is HSV is NOT uping the power of the GTS 430......so what does that mean?

[mick74GT]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Yeah well that makes one of you
And the latest news is HSV is NOT uping the power of the GTS 430......so what does that mean?

not to go too far off topic here but wouldn't a fairer comparison to say which is 'the most powerful' be to run up both motors on an engine dyno?

I mean the HSV has a very heavy duty drivetrain, and the losses would certainly be a lot higher. So wouldn't the only true way to prove this be on an engine dyno?

For what its worth as others have said true buyers and enthusiasts from either camp don't buy these because on a dyno run one ran up 10 more KW than the other. Titles and bragging rights like this are more for the one eyed die hards.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

And the latest news is HSV is NOT uping the power of the GTS 430......so what does that mean?

It means it will still be quicker on road and track than the GTF and most probably the proposed XR8 Sprint.
It's splitting hairs not splitting buyers. Blue bloods will buy the sprint , the Reds will now also have a choice to upgrade to a supercharged clubbie or stretch to an "improved" GTS in series 2.

What it also means is that second gen HSV buyers have a mountain of stuff to choose from in the second hand car market, we blue bloods have &$@? all , and when it is available , it's priced ridiculously.

[nz13boy]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Way to take everything out of context and prove my point about talking about everything bar the most important topic.. I've personally said many times the GTS is an awesome performing car,handling tech and so on. But THIS particular topic was about POWER and none of you muppets are willing to accept that the FORD GT is Australia's most powerful Aussie car.
And there's a million examples of less powerful cars beating more powerful cars.....but that's not supposed to be the topic......

Nice, first you call us clowns, now we are muppets. Or more precisely, Im a muppet. Maybe You need to seek some help to deal with your defensive insecurities.

If you EVEN bothered to read the Op it quite clearly says "MORE POWER for australias FASTEST car". Thats what the articles about.

Do you even know what CONTEXT means?

Your the only one fixated on highest Dyno POWER figures. Thats NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT thing. And not what this OP is about. Despite your lame efforts to make it so.

2015: QLD REDS. Finished 3rd Last.
2015: NSW WARATH. Soundly whipped In Semi.

What does that have to do with the OP?

Reading your posts on here reminds me of Phil Kearns, Biased, Blinkered, oneyed and a hint of the Sooks.

Did you see how I read whats at the bottom of your profile and put it all in CONTEXT?..........lol.

[Express]

The headline of the article says Australia’s fastest car and the text moves on to talk about the most powerful, so both claims are being made towards the GTS.

The OP article itself is actually about a speculated upgrade to the output of the GTS, the article Chopped has posted later on refutes this.

The only claim that seems to be contested in this tread is the most powerful claim.

HSV are making official claims about the GTS, what is FPV claiming for the GT351 or F?

If FPV isn’t making any official claim that their car is more powerful than the point is to some extent mute.

Only people who read car mags and the car section of newspapers (which are few), would be aware there has even been a face-off on the dyno.

It is possible FPV are claiming the GT351 or F is officially making more power than the GTS, I don’t know as I couldn’t be bothered researching it.

One thing I do understand is don’t ever believe or rely on anything you read in the media as fact.

Which brings me to my main point, which is in a similar vein to what mick74GT has already posted.

The difference between the GTS and GT351 or F both in a straight line and on a dyno isn’t much.

If I was so concerned about owning the fastest or the most powerful to the point where those minor differences would sway my purchase then I’d probably take a different course and spend my money in other ways.

Off topic but the only one of these cars available as a new purchase is the GTS, sadly Ford felt the need to shut the gate on continuing with a halo car to take it to closure.


.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Yeah well that makes one of you
And the latest news is HSV is NOT uping the power of the GTS 430......so what does that mean?

LOl, its just an article man, who knows wether its accurate or not, it certainly holds no more weight than the first article at this stage.
But your not concerned with the first article because that suggests a power increase and isnt what you want to believe.

If HSV is planning on upping its power output do you think they would come out and confirm it considering a last minute special edition is being talked about from the Ford camp?
Maybe they didnt want that leaked and the subsequent article was released to hush it up.
Perhaps the HSV GTS might put 430kw at the wheels, who knows, as has been said a few times, we wont know until it hits the market.
The only person getting worked up over the possibility is you, the most self opinionated person on this whole Forum and quite literally embarrassing to be associated with.
I feel sorry for those around you, it must be hell.
And seeing as you've insulted everyone who doesnt share your views i will stand by that and cop whatever goes with it.

Either way, you only want to bang on about RWKW because thats the only card you've got to play.

Perhaps you should duck over to the pits and argue with Blem about stuff he does for a living...

[responsef6]

Well boys, I dynod my gtf today 361rwkw run 3, but run 2 was still 355rwkw

This was factory!

Am getting intercooler fitted and tune today, interesting to see the results after tune

just coincidence that I've been debating gtf factory power in the last few days with you all... But you prompted me to test the engine warming theory by getting the tuner to do 3 baseline runs to see power difference.. Full details at thread below

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...79#post5427879

[arronm]

Gees. Interesting thread. Most car enthusiasts I know don't leave their cars stock for long. So it doesn't really matter what is the most powerful on the showroom floor. HSV have a car that has the compatible running gear to up the power from factory , and I would say the new model will have an increase in power.

Either way the GTS is the better base car to build a beast and the interior and safety features are a real bonus


Poor old ford can't even get the diff bushes right..

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by responsef6

Well boys, I dynod my gtf today 361rwkw run 3, but run 2 was still 355rwkw

This was factory!

Am getting intercooler fitted and tune today, interesting to see the results after tune

just coincidence that I've been debating gtf factory power in the last few days with you all... But you prompted me to test the engine warming theory by getting the tuner to do 3 baseline runs to see power difference.. Full details at thread below

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...79#post5427879

Awesome, so the GTS is quicker with 40kw less.

[responsef6]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Awesome, so the GTS is quicker with 40kw less.

Sad that your first response to this news is to try and pull me down...I'm pretty pumped to be honest

Bent 8, i thought you were a car enthusiast and might be interested in my results given this thread and our debate. Maybe tuffute is right, your just falcon hater who can't see anything positive, no matter what

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by responsef6

Sad that your first response to this news is to try and pull me down...I'm pretty pumped to be honest

Bent 8, i thought you were a car enthusiast and might be interested in my results given this thread and our debate. Maybe tuffute is right, your just falcon hater who can't see anything positive, no matter what

Im happy for you, obviously with a few k's on the clock it has loosened up.
My point was that despite showing a pretty awesome power output, the GTS is still a quicker car and pointing out the greater dyno difference doesnt make the GTF any better, it just underlines how good the GTS is.

As for my allegiances, i havent been on LS1 or JC in years as they are a bunch of bogans and the forums are a free for all. Wether you believe me or not, i am a Blue Oval fan first and foremost, but im also a realist and wont jump on a bandwagon simply because it comes from the right camp.

The GTF is a great car, but it isnt a complete package.
The GTS is the most complete package ever built in this country and that is the reason why it doesnt spin up the best dyno figures and why it edges out the GTF on the 1/4 and more than likely the track.

For a little history, the P3 GTHO could smash the XU1 on a dyno, but on a wet track in 72 the underpowered XU1 got the job done.
The E49 got the 1/4.

The XU1 and E49 didnt need to be the most powerful, they just had to excell on every inch of their respective fields better in the conditions presented.

Its all about power to weight and how it puts it down, the GTS does it with less power.

[arronm]

Originally Posted by responsef6

Well boys, I dynod my gtf today 361rwkw run 3, but run 2 was still 355rwkw

This was factory!

Am getting intercooler fitted and tune today, interesting to see the results after tune

just coincidence that I've been debating gtf factory power in the last few days with you all... But you prompted me to test the engine warming theory by getting the tuner to do 3 baseline runs to see power difference.. Full details at thread below

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...79#post5427879

Thats awesome stock numbers. You must be stoked.

An intercooler will keep those numbers consistent.

[responsef6]

Originally Posted by arronm

Thats awesome stock numbers. You must be stoked.

An intercooler will keep those numbers consistent.

Yeah thanks. I love the gtf... Brilliant car. 6009 fun kms so far spread across about 20 country Sunday runs in the last year... And No commuting kms.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by mick74GT

not to go too far off topic here but wouldn't a fairer comparison to say which is 'the most powerful' be to run up both motors on an engine dyno?

I mean the HSV has a very heavy duty drivetrain, and the losses would certainly be a lot higher. So wouldn't the only true way to prove this be on an engine dyno?

Spot on, a chassis dyno reading shouldn't be used as a definitive answer to which motor makes more power when the two test subjects have different drivelines...

[Bossxr8]

I wouldn't be surprised if the GTS stayed at 430. All HSV can do is take what GM give them, they have no ability to develop anything themselves in the engine department. They are the crate engine hacks.

[GTPete]

Originally Posted by Stefan

This is my biggest hate on my BF GT and been the drama since 2003. Not having riven a S/C 5.0, it's sounds like its still an issue. You have a 2,000rpm useable torque band before it hits the limiter, which makes the car a dog to drive, especial manuals. That is why the F6 is such a good proposition.

PD S/C it, transforms a 5.4 into what it should have been from the start.
Just have to keep the boost sane for longevity.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I wouldn't be surprised if the GTS stayed at 430. All HSV can do is take what GM give them, they have no ability to develop anything themselves in the engine department. They are the crate engine hacks.

HSV will probably do what they always do with the LS engines, tune tweak and maybe a bit of an exhaust and / or airbox tweak

[GTMOND]

Is it 2017 yet, ahh the peace. lol. Really does it matter, it is what it is. Give me the GT but, either are great.
The HSV at Generation ahead of the GT so it's to be expected that it would be a better all round Package, plus a substantial amount more R&D money.
The GT motor into the GTS then we would be happy.

[jasen]

Some pretty impressive numbers for the Ford/GTFs being posted well done.
Here's one for the Holden/GTS fans amongst us.
Hub dyno so should be pretty accurate right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvoZlSvRcew

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Agree with you to a point there Stefan, the 8 is so neutered until 4000rpm, I am sure a tune fixes that up though. But yes it doesn't feel as though it will ever have that 2000-4000rpm massive tidal wave of torque that a tuned F6 does.

tune it already Rodge, I mean Trev ;)

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by nz13boy

Nice, first you call us clowns, now we are muppets. Or more precisely, Im a muppet. Maybe You need to seek some help to deal with your defensive insecurities.

If you EVEN bothered to read the Op it quite clearly says "MORE POWER for australias FASTEST car". Thats what the articles about.

Do you even know what CONTEXT means?

Your the only one fixated on highest Dyno POWER figures. Thats NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT thing. And not what this OP is about. Despite your lame efforts to make it so.

2015: QLD REDS. Finished 3rd Last.
2015: NSW WARATH. Soundly whipped In Semi.

What does that have to do with the OP?

Reading your posts on here reminds me of Phil Kearns, Biased, Blinkered, oneyed and a hint of the Sooks.

Did you see how I read whats at the bottom of your profile and put it all in CONTEXT?..........lol.

did you notice how the thread was being discussed from another angle and the point became POWER. That's what context is....talking about what's being talked about.....not disagreeing and spitting your dummy and reverting to older posts,points or thread topics.
Oh I see your a rugby fan....congrats....