Single use plastic bag ban by Government

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by zipping

Good post.

But a journey to where?

Man solves problems and plastics have been the solution to a whole range of problems, which is why plastics have proliferated.

I agree that it is a problem in the sea and we should do more on the world stage to try to prevent plastics finding their way into oceans. That said rubbish gathering on a remote island while not a good look is it actually causing that much harm? After all it can be gathered up and put in landfill with some effort.

The problem is this.

By demonising plastic and unleashing a propaganda war only looking at the downside to plastic we ignore all the benefits that plastics have provided in solving so many of our problems.

Banning plastics in any form confirms to those that say plastic is bad that they are correct and I don't think they are. This only encourages people intent on banning things that benefit society to move onto the next issue and as you say this is only the start.

You're right. The use of plastic in itself is not a bad thing. It is the way we humans dispose of it that is the problem. We should recycle all of it, that way little ends up in the natural habitat where it can cause problems.

Again, you are right about Henderson island. I recall seeing one image of a hermit crab that had set up home in a Yowie or Kinder Surprise toy container. Not necessarily a bad thing in itself.

What worries me the most is that all of the plastic that is disposed of (whether appropriately or not) ends up in our natural environment where it has the potential to cause problems. Even the stuff that ends up in land fill goes nowhere. I recall on one of the episodes of War on Waste where they went to an old landfill site that had closed down many years before (something like 20 years, but don't quote me on that) and took a core sample. All of the plastic was untouched. They selected one item, a Coke bottle lid, and it was not faded or damaged in any way. You could simply wash that sucker and put it on a brand new bottle of coke and no one would be the wiser.

It worries me about the world that we are leaving future generations by simply burying (either in soil or water) our waste. It would be much better if we could turn that product around to reuse it.

Sure, I understand that it takes energy and resources to do that but that full lifecycle needs to be optimised. As far as energy goes, we are moving to a more sustainable model where renewables could provide that energy, with reduced impact on our environment.

And I'm no greenie. I would be the last to be a greenie given that I work at Australia's largest CO2-emitting power station. However, I am about doing as much as we can to reduce our footprint. I encourage everyone reading this to at least start a soft plastics recycling program at home and do your own little bit. And reduce your own usage wherever practical. If you aren't interested in doing it for yourself, at least think of what you are leaving behind for your descendants.

Sorry, I'll get off mu soapbox now

[snap0964]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Stuff that Coles and Woolies sell for $3 I regularly buy at Aldi for $1.

That'd be $0.99.

I get a bit tired seeing the Aldi price structure - $1.99, $5.99, $11.99, etc.
I'm pretty sure most people can figure out $2, $6, $12 and so on.

Cash sales must be still up there to keep this going I guess to pocket the rounding up.

Should raid the old jew jar and rock up with exact change one day and watch the looks

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by prydey

Name something.

Flying Power (same as Red Bull), Cracker biscuits (same as Jazz, but actually taste better), Marinated chicken wings, butterflied whole chicken, whole chicken, Pork Ribs, prosciutto, cheese, frozen meat pies, frozen pizza, butter, margarine, plus a thousand other things I won't list.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by snap0964

That'd be $0.99.

I get a bit tired seeing the Aldi price structure - $1.99, $5.99, $11.99, etc.
I'm pretty sure most people can figure out $2, $6, $12 and so on.

Cash sales must be still up there to keep this going I guess to pocket the rounding up.

Should raid the old jew jar and rock up with exact change one day and watch the looks

The $1.99, x.98, x.95 started decades back (when we had 1 and 2 cent pieces), and was actually designed to be a "security measure" used by shop owners rather than to make prices look lower.

[snap0964]

Yeah, thanks, I was aware of that, but 1c & 2c coins have been gone since the early nineties.
Mind you though AFAIK, they are still legal tender.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Flying Power (same as Red Bull), Cracker biscuits (same as Jazz, but actually taste better), Marinated chicken wings, butterflied whole chicken, whole chicken, Pork Ribs, prosciutto, cheese, frozen meat pies, frozen pizza, butter, margarine, plus a thousand other things I won't list.

like I said, you are comparing Aldi products with name brand products. if you compare like for like, then its about the same.

I shop at Aldi myself, so i'm not against them. I just don't shop expecting to save a lot of money.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by snap0964

Yeah, thanks, I was aware of that, but 1c & 2c coins have been gone since the early nineties.
Mind you though AFAIK, they are still legal tender.

Thanks, and for the benefit of others who may not get what I meant by "a security measure" ....

By making the price a few cents less, and the fact that very few customers would be handing over the exact money, it would force the check out operators to physically have to open the till and put the money into it, to then give the customer their change.

This prevented a lot of theft or embezzlement by staff.
If something was exactly $5, and a customer handed over a $5 note, then if the customer left in a hurry and did not want a receipt, the staff member could easily slip the money straight into their pocket.

This, of course, was back in the days, when we did not have EFTPOS and much credit card use as we have today, and consumers would pay cash for many smaller transactions, and there were fewer security cameras over checkout counters, especially in smaller stores.

[Cav]

[snap0964]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

Thanks, and for the benefit of others who may not get what I meant by "a security measure" ....

By making the price a few cents less, and the fact that very few customers would be handing over the exact money, it would force the check out operators to physically have to open the till and put the money into it, to then give the customer their change.
This prevented a lot of theft or embezzlement by staff.
If something was exactly $5, and a customer handed over a $5 note, then if the customer left in a hurry and did not want a receipt, the staff member could easily slip the money straight into their pocket.
This, of course, was back in the days, when we did not have EFTPOS and much credit card use as we have today, and consumers would pay cash for many smaller transactions, and there were fewer security cameras over checkout counters, especially in smaller stores.

Another favourite in the old cash days was giving out incorrect change, just giving it out rather than counting it out when giving it to the customer.

Most people wouldn't check their change and be none the wiser, the operator would pocket the difference and the cash float wouldn't be out either.

[EgoFG]

two things



1) I do not approve of the term "Single use plastic bags", It presupposes that I do not reuse these as Rubbish bin liners, or to collect garage junk, or smelly garbage before binning. I=POne contributed to a model rocket parachute.


2) Why is the alternative not Paper Bags ? These are still used in USA.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by prydey

like I said, you are comparing Aldi products with name brand products. if you compare like for like, then its about the same.

I shop at Aldi myself, so i'm not against them. I just don't shop expecting to save a lot of money.

You do realise they are the same product just from a different shop?

There are no special Aldi chickens being bred.

I can't avoid saving money when I go there, as I pay about half the price to feed my family a chicken dinner than what that dinner would cost me at Coles.

I honestly can't see how you can shop at Aldi and not knock at least 1/3rd off your grocery bill.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

two things



1) I do not approve of the term "Single use plastic bags", It presupposes that I do not reuse these as Rubbish bin liners, or to collect garage junk, or smelly garbage before binning. I=POne contributed to a model rocket parachute.

Single use plastic bags are free.

I know I know they are ultimately paid for through product sales, I'll see if there is any info on what supermarkets may collect for the sale of non single use plastic bags.

FMD!

$71mil

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...490c60c0efac68

[prydey]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

You do realise they are the same product just from a different shop?

There are no special Aldi chickens being bred.

I can't avoid saving money when I go there, as I pay about half the price to feed my family a chicken dinner than what that dinner would cost me at Coles.

I honestly can't see how you can shop at Aldi and not knock at least 1/3rd off your grocery bill.

You can justify it to yourself however you like. If you want to believe flying power is the same as red bull, then I can't help you.

If you really believe people can save a minimum 30% just by shopping at Aldi, then why do people still shop elsewhere? After all, aldi isn't some secret that only a few know about.

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by Cav

Single use plastic bags are free.

I know I know they are ultimately paid for through product sales, I'll see if there is any info on what supermarkets may collect for the sale of non single use plastic bags.

FMD!

$71mil

https://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...490c60c0efac68

so the supermarkets going to make $71m profit on the new bags, they'll also save the $171m* they spend on the 'free' bags, for a $242m gain in profits.

wonder who in parliament is in woolies/coles pocket?

*cause sure as **** they won't be reducing the prices that already include that 'free' bag money.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by data_mine

so the supermarkets going to make $71m profit on the new bags, they'll also save the $171m* they spend on the 'free' bags, for a $242m gain in profits.

wonder who in parliament is in woolies/coles pocket?

*cause sure as **** they won't be reducing the prices that already include that 'free' bag money.

Gee mate, stop thinking for yaself.

Think about the bigger picture, you know, the planet, the turtles, the environment and stuff like that.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Flying Power from Aldi is nowhere near as good as Red Bull. lol

[Sox]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

You do realise they are the same product just from a different shop?

Some things are, some things aren't.

There are no special Aldi chickens being bred.

True enough, they aren't special chickens, however there isn't only one poultry farm and supplier around...

I can't avoid saving money when I go there, as I pay about half the price to feed my family a chicken dinner than what that dinner would cost me at Coles.

I honestly can't see how you can shop at Aldi and not knock at least 1/3rd off your grocery bill.

If you compare Aldi brands to name brands from Coles or Woolworths, then yes, you'll save $$.
However you aren't comparing apples with apples.

You need to compare Aldi brands to Coles and Woolworths home brands, then the $$ split is much the same.

Don't even bother bringing perceived quality into it as that's subjective. We all like different things.


Like Prydey, I have no problem with Aldi, but to suggest they're cheaper or anything different to Coles or Woolworths is just playing with ya noodle...

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

two things



1) I do not approve of the term "Single use plastic bags", It presupposes that I do not reuse these as Rubbish bin liners, or to collect garage junk, or smelly garbage before binning. I=POne contributed to a model rocket parachute.


2) Why is the alternative not Paper Bags ? These are still used in USA.

Just because your Falcon is not marketed as a 4WD (for example), does not mean you can't take it off road. Sure, its a compromise position, but that is the same with 'single-use' plastic bags. They are primarily not designed to be used over and over again. They might get a few uses, but they soon fail as they aren't very thick.

Irrespective of how many times it gets used, the important part for me is that they do not get thrown out. Take the effort to get them recycled! Win, win all round.

[Syndrome]

Bring back paper shopping bags.

[MITCHAY]

Lol WTF I'm surprised this has got to 5 pages.

Been using the reusable bags from the Weber store for a long time. I bought another one from Woolies for 99c today.

I still have a ****load of plastic bags in my pantry on top of that too which I have no idea what to do with.

Apart from this I have often wondered why they use so much packaging these day plastic or otherwise. It often seems excessive for me. How can it be bad to try to reduce this?

[whitelion65]

Originally Posted by Cav

Gee mate, stop thinking for yaself.

Think about the bigger picture, you know, the planet, the turtles, the environment and stuff like that.

Cav,

I'm not the smartest bloke about......but I'm beginning to think that your prompting us to THINK, rather than just rearranging our prejudices!


Any truth in this???


Rusty cogs

[Cav]

Originally Posted by whitelion65

Cav,

I'm not the smartest bloke about......but I'm beginning to think that your prompting us to THINK, rather than just rearranging our prejudices!


Any truth in this???


Rusty cogs

That's true mate I drive family and friends insane trying to debate stuff that is in the news.

It appears that there is only one acceptable view these days and I often challenge people to explain to me what they mean.

The single use bag ban is a classic example.

People mouth what is in the news - environments/turtles - but when challenged on this they have not thought about it or they have not been exposed to an alternative view.

When I point out some facts about an issue I am usually met with phrases like, I don't want to talk about it anymore.

Today decisions are made on feelings, not on facts.

I heard a bewdy today.

We are selecting people for promotion/management/board members based on their genitalia.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Lol WTF I'm surprised this has got to 5 pages.

Been using the reusable bags from the Weber store for a long time. I bought another one from Woolies for 99c today.

I still have a ****load of plastic bags in my pantry on top of that too which I have no idea what to do with.

Apart from this I have often wondered why they use so much packaging these day plastic or otherwise. It often seems excessive for me. How can it be bad to try to reduce this?

Are you for or against the ban on single use plastic bags Mitch?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Cav

When I point out some facts about an issue

playing devils advocate though, where do the 'facts' come from?

for example, this thread has many people quoting articles on the costs involved to produce the plastic bags, and profit margins by retailers, and the amount of use required just to break even etc etc. you could easily argue that these 'facts' were coined by people 'looking' for evidence to back their position, rather than choosing a position based on where the evidence took them. this is quite common in many research sectors, where the outcome would always be in favour of those funding the research (funny that).

[Cav]

Originally Posted by prydey

playing devils advocate though, where do the 'facts' come from?

for example, this thread has many people quoting articles on the costs involved to produce the plastic bags, and profit margins by retailers, and the amount of use required just to break even etc etc. you could easily argue that these 'facts' were coined by people 'looking' for evidence to back their position, rather than choosing a position based on where the evidence took them. this is quite common in many research sectors, where the outcome would always be in favour of those funding the research (funny that).

Bingo

We need evidence.

I think I quoted the source for the $71mil earnings on plastic bag sales.

I think I also quoted sources on major polluters of plastic.

No one has been able to source why we have banned single use plastic bags (rather than all plastic bags and plastic containers) except for "the environment" and "turtles."

And taking up the cudgel for what you raised, see if you can find any govmint grants from any country for a study on the benefits of global warming?

Just sayin'

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Cav

Are you for or against the ban on single use plastic bags Mitch?

I'm for less plastic in any form. I really don't think it's such a big deal mate. I have 4 or 5 of those reusable bags for my grocery shopping.

I think the real problem is why to many lazy kents just throw away bags and don't care where it ends up. Less plastic can only be a good thing surely?

[slowsnake]

Hello,
I use 1 bag per week in my little kitchen bin/tidy,its not a lot of rubbish but I live alone,all recycle goes out to the yellow bin,a 4 metre walk,so I use 52 a year,I have nearly 500 in my "bag drawer".
I have been collecting for 7 months since moving here.
I shop every 2 weeks on pension day,I knew this day was coming yonks ago.
My fortnightly shop uses 4-5 bags,say 10 per month or 110-120 per year,I use a trolley and have gone only to self service and put one item per bag,so I pick up 20 bags per fortnight,that's 40 per month or 480 per year,so in 6-7 months since moving I picked up may by 300 bags for my bin.
I also used the checkout on 3 occasions, I would buy a bag of catfood,I always assume women love cats,so I tell em about my "sick rescue kitten" vomiting all over from his drugs,when they go "aw poor little thing" I just say could you give me some extra bags!...do you know how many bags are in an inch thick pile?....about 200!..

Do I feel guilty!..no because I am paying for them,and if you have a neighbour who ****s you then you find the plastic bags fit over their heads,perfect fit to shut em up!

Cheers Billy.

[arronm]

I dont shop, couldn't care less...

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by arronm

I dont shop, couldn't care less...

Hello,
Are you saying that you send your partner to do your shopping?...geez isn't that sexist?..lol..hee hee....

Cheers Billy.

[Cav]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I'm for less plastic in any form. I really don't think it's such a big deal mate. I have 4 or 5 of those reusable bags for my grocery shopping.

I think the real problem is why to many lazy kents just throw away bags and don't care where it ends up. Less plastic can only be a good thing surely?

Let's look at what is happening in NZ which doesn't have a ban on single use plastic bags, yet.

Single use plastic bags account for 8.2% in the marine environment in a NZ study.



Surely we should ban the main problem, not just one little part.

To do otherwise is gesture politics and achieves bugger all except allowing politicians to beat their chests about at least doing something.

The Associate Environment Minister Eugenie Sage said she was getting closer to making a decision on plastic bags, and an announcement would be made within the next few months.
"Plastic bags, which are used once and thrown away, need to be phased out."

So I will keep asking this question, "Do we want to solve the plastic waste or not?"

If so ban all plastic.

Either make a decision to do this or do nothing