Ford Announces New Engine Direction

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Assembled from imported components !!

So is the Boss Engine...

We can't have double standards now can we....

[Bluehoon]

Sad days indeed. Days of I6 are numbered.

Few things springs to mind but, Orion sales, with a new engine looming???

Question on my mind is, with the duratec engine, will the Falcon become FWD?

[XR8Master]

Ford has a lot of reshuffling to do, this decision makes a few models obsolete, I dont known if this new V6 will be able to undertake the same role as the Iron blocked I6 in its higher preformance models ?

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

and why cant australia do that, are we saying that the i6 is old technology, and we arent capable of making better. this is the theme you seem to be pointing too.

No. Ford are saying that we can't sell enough cars, to make the production of a Unique engine feasible. If the I6 was in, say Mustang, then things may have been different, however Ford have to make a Business decision, to either soldier on with an Engine that will make Ford a loss, or to import an Excellent engine which will make the Falcon truly world class.

For those that are worried that the Duratech is a woeful engine, its in "Wards 10 best Engines of 2006 and 2007", as can be seen Here. It is in the same league as the Nissan 350Z/Maxima engine, the 4.6 Modular, and Toyota's V6. Not to shabby if you ask me!

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

and why cant australia do that, are we saying that the i6 is old technology, and we arent capable of making better. this is the theme you seem to be pointing too.

That is not the case at all - anything is possible, but Ford cannot afford to do it. Ford is currently $billions in the red, so saving a hundred million or so on an engine it doesn't need will come in handy

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Sad days indeed. Days of I6 are numbered.

Few things springs to mind but, Orion sales, with a new engine looming???

Question on my mind is, with the duratec engine, will the Falcon become FWD?

No. Falcon won't become FWD. It'll become LHD, but FWD won't happen as long as FOA have the contract to engineer the Crown Vic/Town Car/Mustang/Falcon/Fairlane Platform. It will be RWD, LHD, RHD and Australian.

Read this:

AS THE Federal Labor Opposition today warned of a possible closure announcement of Ford’s Geelong engine plant as early as tomorrow (July 18), further details have emerged in the US of the all-new V6 – including a twin-turbocharged direct-injection version – that should eventually slot into the next-generation Falcon.

Opposition industry spokesman Kim Carr told Fairfax newspapers today that the Australian auto industry was “bracing itself for a decision, and we fear the worst”.

Meanwhile, across the Pacific respected US website Edmunds.com has revealed further details of the replacement V6, along with the BMW M3-style twin-clutch transmission it will be paired with (in the high-performance variant) and the lead engineering role Australia is believed to be playing in the Blue Oval’s future global rear-wheel drive platform architecture.

In return for part of the $137 million it received mostly in the form of Federal Government import duty concessions from the Automotive Competitiveness and Investments Scheme (ACIS) in 2006, Ford Australia has committed to developing a left-hand drive version of its reskinned 2008 Orion Falcon for sale in potential export markets.

Now, precisely 12 months after GM Holden launched the VE Commodore sedan as the first model to ride on GM’s new global rear-drive “architecture”, Edmunds has reported that the first of a procession of US and possibly European models to employ all-new vehicle underpinnings designed by Ford Australia for its next-generation Falcon (not due before 2013) will appear globally inside four years.

In a worldwide future model engineering strategy that appears to be a carbon copy of what Holden and GM began with the Commodore’s Zeta foundations, it is believed Ford US will launch the first in a family of large rear-drive coupe and sedan models in 2011 for the 2012 model year – around two-years ahead of Ford Australia’s all-new next-generation Falcon.

According to Edmunds, Ford Australia “will do much of the initial engineering work” for the new RWD/AWD component set, which in North America is expected to form the basis of replacements for Ford’s Mustang coupe and Crown Victoria sedan, plus the Mercury Grand Marquis and Lincoln’s Town Car.

The Mustang would have been North America’s last remaining rear-drive Ford by 2011, following the closure of the plants that build the latter trio (all based on Ford’s circa-1978 “Panther” rear-drive platform) in 2010 and the demise of the Lincoln LS sedan and Ford Thunderbird, both of which share the outgoing Jaguar S-Type’s premium-priced DEW98 platform.

An all-new Crown Victoria, expected to look a lot like Ford’s striking Interceptor concept from January’s Detroit motor show, should be the first to preview the next-generation Falcon’s platform.

Ford Australia has already announced that its upcoming Orion sedan will not, at least from launch, form the basis for a successor to Ford’s once-dominant long-wheelbase Fairlane/LTD flagship – a model that could be vital for Ford in emerging Asian export destinations – just as Holden’s WM Statesman/Caprice is.

However, Edmunds reports that the future architecture known to US suppliers generically as the “global large rear-wheel-drive vehicle platform” will (eventually) underpin both a future Fairlane/LTD. It says both a new rear-drive flagship sedan for Ford of Europe and a car-based replacement for the Explorer could also be built on the same platform.

Ford Australia’s new role in its parent company’s broader model plans is the brainchild of new Ford CEO Alan Mulally and Ford’s group vice-president for global product development, Derrick Kuzak, who visited Ford Oz last month for the first time.

Like Bob Lutz, his opposite number at GM, Mr Kuzak appears to value the ability of his Australian subsidiary, which is believed to have already started development of the Orion’s fully redesigned successor, to develop a range of large rear-drive models based on one chassis architecture.

Edmunds also reported on Friday that Ford’s new RWD/AWD platform will be engineered to accommodate both V6 and V8 engines, including the new twin-turbocharged, direct-injection “TwinForce” petrol engines, and Ford’s new VW DSG-style twin-clutch, six-speed transmission.

As with the new BMW M3’s upcoming automated (seven-speed) manual dubbed M-DCT, Ford’s six-speed “PowerShift” gearbox will be sourced from German transmission maker Getrag.

Mr Kuzak used a 2008 model preview for selected US journalists two weeks ago to reveal more details of the 2.5-litre four-cylinder, 3.5-litre V6, 5.0-litre (and 6.2-litre – for the F150) V8 “GTTDI” engines currently being developed at Dearborn.

While direct petrol-injection and turbocharging are technologies already currently employed by the Ford group (the former in the US Mondeo and together in the Mazda6 MPS), direct-injection remains on the shelf as a fuel-saving technology for the Holden-built Alloytec V6, which is already produced in (2.8-litre) twin-turbo guise for GM outposts like Saab.

Holden’s own 280kW/480Nm TT36 Torana concept was powered by a twin-turbocharged 3.6-litre Alloytec V6 that is odds-on to join the Commodore performance line-up eventually.

The TwinForce engines also possess a cylinder shutdown feature similar to GM’s “displacement on demand” system that’s yet to appear on Holden’s V6.

GM’s future Zeta-based large-car programs beyond the Chevrolet Camaro were brought into question by Mr Lutz as strict new Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards moved one step closer to reality in the US last month.

Ford’s long-term strategy to meet ever-tightening fuel consumption requirements was first outlined with the Detroit show reveal on the Lincoln MKR concept, which is powered by a twin-turbo, direct-injection of Ford’s all-alloy Duratec 35 engine – the 3.5-litre V6 that we last week revealed was most likely to replace Falcon’s long-running inline six by mid-2010, when strict new Euro4 emissions laws come into full effect.

Mr Kuzak said Ford had fast-tracked many technologies and that the new TwinForce engines would deliver fuel economy that approached diesel engines – without the expensive development and production costs.

“Our TwinForce engine technology is a key element of how we’re going after fuel economy gains without asking anyone to give up performance,” he said when presenting the MKR at Detroit in January.

The MKR’s E85-compatible engine was claimed to deliver 309kW and 540Nm – and 15 per cent better fuel economy than a V8 with similar performance.

The figures eclipse even the twin-turbo/direct-injection 3.0-litre inline six (225kW/400Nm) of BMW’s highly acclaimed 335i which, unlike the TwinForce V6, runs only on premium unleaded.

Latest speculation from the US is that the flagship of the 2009 Ford Fusion range in the US will receive a single-turbo 2.5-litre inline four that produces 194kW, while further-out the 5.0-litre GTTDI V8 will offer more than 320kW.

Of most significance to Australia is the 3.5-litre GTTDI V6 that will dispense somewhere between 261kW and 313kW when it powers the production Lincoln MKS, next-generation Mustang and, potentially, Ford’s local FPV and/or XR models.

And that should be enough to appease those already lamenting the banishment of Ford’s brilliant turbocharged six in the XR6 and FPV F6s from 2010.

[zk_dazza]

[QUOTE=bingoTE50]

Originally Posted by zk_dazza

hey maybe this is then end of blown head gaskets being a common thing to fix

Glad you said it and not me.... personally I support your comment.. Owned 3 E series , 3 blown head gaskets... The first AU I bought , it was a v8 one tonner. In saying this I had 3 BA's , and the engines were fine ,but electronics were a issue ..( on all of 3 them)

BA's are far from immune to head gasket issues , just today had a BA xr6 turbo come into work and had one the was not too far off failing.

I love falcon's i really do, theyre usually very tough reliable cars but they have so many stupid little faults that hold them back, i really hope that the build quality of local fords improves, especially teritory, otherwise Ford are going to be getting rid of alot more than 600 jobs....at least thats what i think

[Donut King]

In a market where public perception can often make or break a car (case in point, Holden's Daewoos sell far better than Daewoo's Daewoo's ever did - the only difference being the badge on the bonnet) Which sounds better to the regular guy on the street "Ford puts a brand new world class V6 under the bonnet of the Falcon" or "Ford launches new Falcon with updated 50 year old Inline 6"

The Inline 6 has a reputation as a thirsty harsh engine, yes this has changed recently, but perception often lags well behind reality - people still think of Falcon as a thirsty car. Just maybe the new engine will generate an increased interest from people whom otherwise wouldn't have even gave Falcon a look in

[Bucknaked]

Wow a V6 ford. Nah. Doesn't quite sound right. It might be a step forward that the company has to make in order to survive, but its just feels as if they took the easy way out, and have abandoned the falcon 6 man.

Maybe they could do an early run in the orion with a V6 and run a dual I6/V6 program. Build 10,000 units of each and which ever sells first is what the company will build from. Let Jo Public decide if they want a V6. If the I6 wins, at least there will be a limited run of V6's belting around the streets of Australia.

It would be a costly exercise.

[Lumpen Proletariat]

This only really makes sense while the Australian dollar is at highs against the US dollar. Remember how badly Holden got stung when our dollar dropped aginst the Yen when they were running the RB30 in the VL? Costs blew right out.

Ah, the beauty of globalisation. While it's working for you it's all smiles and lollypops....



Lumpy

[andrewts]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

and why cant australia do that, are we saying that the i6 is old technology, and we arent capable of making better. this is the theme you seem to be pointing too.

I'm not saying it is old technology, so much as it has a heritage. Australia as capable as anybody else of making better engines, but it is going to cost money, and there is no point in doing that if the car is going to die after a few years because the parts are too expensive, and the few people who buy it in this country die off as petrol hits $2.00/L.

When you put the imported V6 into the Falcon, than the economies of scale makes exports of these cars appealing. Watch people flock to showrooms all over the world to buy a cheap, big, RWD, grunty sedan and soon Ford will have enough money to take care of development.

[XR8Master]

I think your wrong Paxton, there is nothing wrong with the engine as a product, it preforms better then most other Australian offered V6's and serves in the top range of preformance models, paring on with higher capacity cars from other brands. I think ford are solely making this move as a way of cutting costs, I perceive that eventually Ford will go downhill anyway no matter the engine, its the companys doctrine as a whole which is sending them broke. they are acting like the average Australian family thats under there noses in debt, spending money before they make it, then they decide that booking up there credit card is a sound move before that gets out of control and they consolidate that into there homeloan thinking its smart and eventually they have to declare bankrupt, it will happen to Ford, its just a matter of when the stakes become to high

[ivorya]

Yep, what can i say.... very dissapointing they have closed the doors on perhaps one of the best 6 cylinder engines ever produced.
This V6 has big shoes to fill. Lets see how this engine works with a car that will be approx 1900kg ( lets face it, every car these days puts on the kg's). My guess, it'll work like the GM box, give it revs, sound like crap, and has worse fuel comsumption then the previous car/engine it replaces.
Ok this engine has a fuel reading of 8.7L/100km in a car weighing 1500kg, whos going to guess how much that'll increase?????

As you can tell i'm dissapointed and upset by the decision.

[shepv8]

Originally Posted by XR8Master

Does anyone know wot a Alcon is ?

its a cross between America and a Falcon

Its a shame to see a car which has so much heritage turn into a foreign product.

I know of people (personally) who have changed over from Holden to Ford and bought a XR6T because of how (Australian) it actually is

Not anymore.

Have you forgotten where falcon came from? Anyone remember the " new Mustang bred falcon " of 1967 full of imported mustang parts, engine , gearbox, diff, suspension etc.
Everyone rejoiced in 91-92 when an imported 5.0L mustang motor was put in the EB. Id rather an imported engine in my falcon than no falcon at all.
Nobody likes change but lets wait till the new engine is here before we write it off.

[4Vman]

Maybe Ford doesnt want to be seen as the "Inline 6" car company anymore either....

[zk_dazza]

Originally Posted by shepv8

Nobody likes change but lets wait till the new engine is here before we write it off.

perfectly said

[XR8Master]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Maybe Ford doesnt want to be seen as the "Inline 6" car company anymore either....

You make it sound like its a bad thing

Every know it all car guy I talk to says that "V" engines are better, they produce more power...because its a V, WTF ?

I guess this is the type of Hype that ford want to conform to

[Jason[98.EL]]

ford australia are already testing the v6 engine in the ORION

and from what i have been told it is going well to bloody well in comparison to the current I6 we have now

just my 2C worth on this toppic

jason

[rodderz]

The engineers at both Broady and Geelong (and FPV) have a very good reputation at getting good results out of everything they touch, hence why they do work for overseas projects as well.

I'm sure while we would all like the I6 to stay that they will work their magic on it to keep the torque levels up that we enjoyed in the 4.0Lt I6, it's just a case of whether they will have the costs involved to get such results that they are after.

[jordyn]

Thats it for me,when are we as true blue aussies going to stand up and fight for our own country,another 600 or more jobs gone offshore,I say say stuff it ,I was going to purchase new falcon next week,but Im not going to now,in direct retaliation for these poor b@#$%s who now dont have their jobs anymore,if you guys and gals out there had any guts you will do the same as me.......enuff is enuff....... imagine if we stood together what we could achieve........no fords for 12 mths........keep the jobs in aussie

[SirHenry]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Couldn't agree more, work is out there if you actually want it, but for too many those jobs are too far away or too hard to get, give it crack FFS.

Perfect example is my brother, just got off the phone from him, a few months back i drove him up to benalla and southern NSW for a job interview, it took some effort but he put his best foot forward and gave it a crack and guess what he got it, he's going to be on over 60K a year straight out of Uni.

These people have 3 years notice, whats the problem?

/Rant On

Not meaning to be personal here guys but Have you ever lived in a town that has a major employer I was born and grew up in a town where the meatworks was THE major employer it employed over 50% of the towns workers when one of the abbatoirs shut the follow on effect on the town is devastating, Small businesses crash because their customers no longer have the money to buy goods from them, depression, suicides etc skyrocket because there is no other employers/jobs....

Yes you can say "Whats the problem they've got 3 years notice" but its like me saying you've got 3 years left to live and then saying to you but its alright you've got 3 years what your problem. Also
Where the heck are these people going to find a similar job , hmm Elizabeth South Australia maybe... or perhaps asia somewhere working for a quarter what they are now....

/Rant Off

[Dazza XLT]

Originally Posted by jordyn

no fords for 12 mths........keep the jobs in aussie

There'll be no jobs to keep if no-one buys an Aussie Ford for 12 months.

Ford could have easily put everyone off after 12 months and brought forward a new engine for Orion.
At least we've got the I6 and the jobs until 2010.

A lot of things can change in 3 years people, don't forget that.

[XR8Master]

Originally Posted by SirHenry

/Rant On

Not meaning to be personal here guys but Have you ever lived in a town that has a major employer I was born and grew up in a town where the meatworks was THE major employer it employed over 50% of the towns workers when one of the abbatoirs shut the follow on effect on the town is devastating, Small businesses crash because their customers no longer have the money to buy goods from them, depression, suicides etc skyrocket because there is no other employers/jobs....

Yes you can say "Whats the problem they've got 3 years notice" but its like me saying you've got 3 years left to live and then saying to you but its alright you've got 3 years what your problem. Also
Where the heck are these people going to find a similar job , hmm Elizabeth South Australia maybe... or perhaps asia somewhere working for a quarter what they are now....

/Rant Off

Hey, you are totally wrong here, nobody owes anyone a job

If I employ someone to mow my grass for $20, im not obliged to pay him to mow my grass again next week.

If I go buy groceries from wollies and I spend $100, im not obliged to shop there and spend another $100 next week

If Ford employes 600 people and they are no longer required, its not Fords problem, at the end of the day, Ford dosen't owe them a living.

[ED Classic]

All the weight saving technologies been planned for 2010 Falcon on top of this engines 50+kg lighter...Who said Ford will never build a sub 1600kg Falcon again.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by zk_dazza

hey maybe this is then end of blown head gaskets being a common thing to fix

What like Toyota's 3.0L V6 : Where they were recalled for headgasket issues in every country but Australia : And when a headgasket blows in a V6 you have to replace both of them, which increases the cost than just doing one on a I6 engine.
Also on a V6, replacing a headgasket usually involves removing the engine, where on an I6 you dont have to do it.

[ED Classic]

Originally Posted by XR8Master

If Ford employes 600 people and they are no longer required, its not Fords problem, at the end of the day, Ford dosen't owe them a living.

And 2 - 3 years notice is p[retty damn good to be honest...not to mention government help to find new employment as a priority.

[shepv8]

Originally Posted by jordyn

Thats it for me,when are we as true blue aussies going to stand up and fight for our own country,another 600 or more jobs gone offshore,I say say stuff it ,I was going to purchase new falcon next week,but Im not going to now,in direct retaliation for these poor b@#$%s who now dont have their jobs anymore,if you guys and gals out there had any guts you will do the same as me.......enuff is enuff....... imagine if we stood together what we could achieve........no fords for 12 mths........keep the jobs in aussie

So what are you thinking of buying instead?
Do we keep making the I6 for sentimental reasons, or do we adopt a mass produced
( and at this stage we dont know whether its better or worse than the I6 so lets not jump to conclusions)
cheaper engine that will allow Ford to stay in the game and not go out of business all together in this country. How many more jobs would that be? Not to mention our beloved marquee selling mazda 3's or some other model as ford falcons.
This new engine may just be the best thing to happen to the falcon.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by bingoTE50

Hopefully ford will put some more technology into the v8 as well. Maybe introduce Chryslers system of dropping out cylinders when cruising , help with economy ,but still have grunt when you need it .

Cylinder deactivation only works because its a pushrod engine, its yet to be developed for an OHC engine, and is unlikey to happen.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by rodderz

The engineers at both Broady and Geelong (and FPV) have a very good reputation at getting good results out of everything they touch, hence why they do work for overseas projects as well.

I'm sure while we would all like the I6 to stay that they will work their magic on it to keep the torque levels up that we enjoyed in the 4.0Lt I6, it's just a case of whether they will have the costs involved to get such results that they are after.

Lets hope they can extract something V6 engines don't have........
[COLOR=Black]TORQUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/COLOR]

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XR8Master

You make it sound like its a bad thing

Every know it all car guy I talk to says that "V" engines are better, they produce more power...because its a V, WTF ?

I guess this is the type of Hype that ford want to conform to

See my previous post:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I dont know why people are getting their panties in a knot over the possibility that the I6 configuration maybe replaced by a V6 configuration, it doesnt matter where the pistons are in relation to each other, the head design and induction design largely determines where and how the power and torque is made. Its a fact that the V6 is a more compact platform so if they design a decent replacement for the I6 it will create design opportunities for the Falcon in years to come.
That said its way too premature to get too concerned beyond speculation and "what if"... Allot can happen and change in 3 years.....