Speed Doesn't Kill - FACT!

[RG]

In regards to speed doesn't kill, that is technically right. What most of you are forgetting is that in order for you to hit something at speed there must be some sort of other error that comes into play. Whether it is driver error, poor road surface or the like it is not speed but rather error/other issue that will kill. Speed is just a contributing factor in some cases and is by no means the leading reason in any accident IMO. That is unless someone tries to do something like take a sharp bend at a stupid rate of knots.

Also remember that for an accident deemed to be the fault of excessive speed that doesn't always mean that the vehicle was travelling over the speed limit.

[normxb]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Here is a real quick question about driving around our remote/outback roads. What does everyone reckon is the most common animal that is hit by cars/trucks cruising our highways? My guess is most bushies would know the answer. Lets see if our city folk know??

And by the way, it would not matter what speed you are doing the chances of hitting one are equal.

Only one answer yet ?

Have a shot at it , it may help you if you're "country driving" at some stage .

Norm

[jabba]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Here is a real quick question about driving around our remote/outback roads. What does everyone reckon is the most common animal that is hit by cars/trucks cruising our highways? My guess is most bushies would know the answer. Lets see if our city folk know??

And by the way, it would not matter what speed you are doing the chances of hitting one are equal.

It would have to be an Aboriginal, wouldn't it...

[SB076]

Originally Posted by normxb

Only one answer yet ?

Have a shot at it , it may help you if you're "country driving" at some stage .

Norm

Ok fine at the risk of making a fool of myself (which I do regularly) I would guess that during daylight hours the greatest threat (depending exactly where you are in the country) would be camels Then during twilight hours I would say the greatest threat would be Kangaroos. Am I close?

EDIt just read OBJ second post if they dont do much damage that pretty much rules camels - Reason I said Camels is that I had a brother that drove from Melb to Perth and he was warned several times from truck drivers about camels in the area and he saw a few on the way over.

[GT290]

Originally Posted by jabba

It would have to be an Aboriginal, wouldn't it...

I was thinking it but did not think any one would actually take him up on his question and answer that.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by kpcart

whats the point of this topic? the guy who started it seems like he needs to have these (FACTS!!) known to justify himself thinking he can drive at whatever speed he wants on a public road not owned by him. just drive the speed limit, your licence to drive comes with rules you must adhere to, it is a privelidge you get to be allowed to drive on public roads. if you cant accept that and do die from speeding, then i will dance on you coffin.

mate . you have a way with words . i totally agree. i have been trying to say , what you just said in heaps of threads like this one. well said .

[gtfpv]

[QUOTE=RedXR347]In regards to speed doesn't kill, Speed is just a contributing factor in some cases and is by no means the leading reason in any accident IMO.


another bloke defending speeding with a stupid statement. poison doesnt kill you either mate . it's the hand that puts it in your mouth.

what a goose.

[Cooper69S]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

another bloke defending speeding with a stupid statement. poison doesnt kill you either mate . it's the hand that puts it in your mouth.

what a goose.

i'm sure we all understand your reasoning, but there is valid logic thats being presented by both sides of the argument. all he's saying is that most accidents are CAUSED by some sort of driver error or mechanical fault. The speed is rarely the ACTUAL CAUSE, but excessive speed can obviously turn a minor collision into a major one, or mean the difference between a near miss and a collision.
on the other hand you could say that if there is a fatality, speed possibly IS the leading cause of the fatality, even if it wasn't the leading cause of the accident - hence the reason why its generally best not to speed...
yes we're being nit-picky on details to some extent, but that ain't a crime. As a theoretical discussion can you see both sides' reasoning?
You're not going to bring anyone around to your point of view by insulting them either...

[flappist]

This subject is always emotive and often not logical. Attempting to convince your protagonist with logic or evidence is about as effective as argueing with a Jehova's Witness.

The crux of the matter is the definition of speeding.

If your definition of speeding is any time your vehicle is exceeding a posted limit and that is dangerous to the point of lethal then you are not logical in your thinking.

Real world situations.

Open multi lane highway, no other traffic, limit 100, perfect weather, you are doing 120 in a new Falcon.
Open highway, some traffic, limit 100, fog, your are doin 98 in a new Falcon.
School zone, 3:10pm kids rushing about, limit 40, pouring rain, you are doing 37.
Open Highway, no traffic, 2am, limit 40(normally 110 because they are mowing the sides of the road during the day and are too lazy to remove the signs at night and you drove over the same road 10min before and it is clear), perfect weather, doing 90 in a new focus.
Open highway, lots of traffic, limit 100, pouring rain, you are doing 100 in a EA with 90% worn super el-cheapo razor blade chinese tyres.

Which ones of these is illegal? Which are extremely dangerous?

There is an enormous problem brewing in society where people are not able to make judgents or decissions because they have never had practice.

We have kids picked up and dropped off at school for 12 years, not allowed out of the yard in case of strangers, basicly instructed and controlled every minute of their lives and conditioine to DO AS YOU ARE TOLD and THEN let loose with a drivers licence.
A situation occurs and they look around for someone to tell them what to do but no one is there.
They make bad choices because they have had no practice at choosing and are not good at it yet.
This is not confine to the young, there are plenty of 30 and 40 year olds who cannot function without concice and extended instructions.

Of course we are still human and therefore always right and everyone else is wrong, that is our nature.

My definition:

Speeding is travelling faster than is safe in any given situation regardless of any posted limit.

[jabba]

That is absolutely spot on Flappist

[Mongoose]

I love you flappist, thank you for making sense. Ive been waiting ages for you to make a post in theis thread.

[prof-rabbit]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Here is a real quick question about driving around our remote/outback roads. What does everyone reckon is the most common animal that is hit by cars/trucks cruising our highways? My guess is most bushies would know the answer. Lets see if our city folk know??

And by the way, it would not matter what speed you are doing the chances of hitting one are equal.

Rabbits are no.1, then it breaks down by what part of the bush you are in, foxes, sheep, roos, wombats, (wombats will flip your car)

[RG]

[QUOTE=gtfpv]

Originally Posted by RedXR347

In regards to speed doesn't kill, Speed is just a contributing factor in some cases and is by no means the leading reason in any accident IMO.


another bloke defending speeding with a stupid statement. poison doesnt kill you either mate . it's the hand that puts it in your mouth.

what a goose.

That post there makes you sound so intelligent that we all must now listen to you.

I don't think you can really compare the two.

[normxb]

Originally Posted by SB076

Ok fine at the risk of making a fool of myself (which I do regularly) I would guess that during daylight hours the greatest threat (depending exactly where you are in the country) would be camels Then during twilight hours I would say the greatest threat would be Kangaroos. Am I close?
EDIt just read OBJ second post if they dont do much damage that pretty much rules camels - Reason I said Camels is that I had a brother that drove from Melb to Perth and he was warned several times from truck drivers about camels in the area and he saw a few on the way over.

Naa mate , when you learn something "you never make a fool of yourself".

I'm a "Bushie" , and I was wrong , when I found out what the answer is , it Really does make sense .

OBJ came up with a Question that "Sounds" very complex , but the answer is surprisingly "Simple" , but very correct and happens in any part of the country . Good try !

Prof_Rabbit , I was thinking the same , Wombat or Rabbit , a clue to the answer is "Anywhere in the country"

Norm

[normxb]

OBJ, Sorry for Hi-Jacking your "Q" , but I think your question is "On Topic" because it has contributed to accidents "Many Times".
Norm

[Keepleft]

I've quoted this post made to the 'aus.cars' newgroup, it concerns manner-of-driving observations under a current speed-limited environment in Queensland, and my quick response.

Come to the conclusion that the Gold Coast hinterland mostly consists of
temporary Australians. Was down that way yesterday, and driving on the road
down from Springbrook - 60km/hr speed limit, lots of tight bends, cliffs
each side, double white lines. I was doing about 50-55, occasionally getting
to 60 on the straightish bits, dropping to 30-40 for the corners. This bloke
in a rice-mobile comes up behind me, sits right on my tail for a few
corners, then overtakes on a corner, giving me the finger as he goes past.

Get onto the Nerang-Murwillimbah road. 80km/hr speed limit, mostly solid
double white lines, a few bends and curves that require slowing to 60-70,
but otherwise I'm driving at 80. An SUV gains on me very rapidly, doesn't
sit behind me but just pulls straight out to overtake immediately it catches
up to me - just before a tight corner and in double white lines. Estimate it
was doing somewhere around 120.

Later, there was a big hail storm in the area. The road was covered with
hail and also with leaves torn from the trees. In places the leaves are so
thick that you can't see any of the lines on the road. It is getting quite
dark, it is still raining heavily, and there is the odd branch from a tree
down. I ignored the 80km/hr limit - in the conditions you would have to be
nuts to travel at that speed - so I'm doing closer to 60, sometimes as slow
as 40. Even so, there are times when the visibility, road surface etc
combine to make 60 feel excessive. Yet despite the atrocious conditions we
get overtaken 3 times, twice on blind corners, by cars who are still driving
at 80 or faster. At one point an oncoming vehicle slides across to our side
of the road on an upcoming corner, narrowly missing us.

Sometimes I wonder if we wouldn't be better off without speed limits - seems
that some people haven't quite worked out that the number on the sign is a
maximum speed, not THE speed.

Responded quickly:-

Its called 'speed-limit conditioning', it results in the behavioural
observations made.

One answer, for *some* rural high-standard roads (lengths of) is to use
instead speed derestriction. No absolute maximum, but manner and personal
speed onus is then much greater, one cannot use 'the state' (posted speed
limits) as a defence for otherwise too fast or dangerous driving under this
allowance.

Another is to reduce the current rural default (100km/h) to 80km/h, remove
the existing speed zoning signs. Here, use of a new sign called an 'END
Speed-limit sign' would then be made. In Australian Standard 1742,4 of 1999
its catalogued as an R4-12. It contains the word 'end' with a number in a
circle underneath it representing the ceasing previous limit.

Unlike the speed derestriction sign, this one falls back to the prevailing
rural default AND its use signals to a road user the road ahead has
identified quality and safety issues; such as soft edges, poor camber, rail
crossings, hidden intersections etc.

[gtfpv]

ON THE m4 motorway in nsw. I travel to work daily. it has 3 speed limits along it's stretch. it also has in some areas electronic variable speed signs . i think ultimately . when technology allowes . these would be good everywhere . but think of the technology involved . at the moment on the m4 . these are rarely used by whoever controls them , and people dont take the signs seriously.
i wonder if the ever will go to SATVAV . AUTOMATED SPEED CONTROL.
i guess the list goes on and on . and human error will have it's hand in everything .
THEREFORE . obviously speed signs have to be generalised at a maximum in good weather etc etc .

[new2ford]

^^ (last 2 posts)
Likewise I find the F3 electronic speed signs good because they can bring the "limit" down to a sensible one for the conditions. (However sometimes I suspect those electronic signs, like on the Sydney orbital, are used set artificially low in good conditions to trap drivers into "speeding" offences.)

[VSSII]

WTF? How can you be trapped? If the lower limit is being enforced then directly in front of the camera the overhead signs are illuminated to 90 and 8 orange lights flash! Look to your left near the advisory signs next time heading north and you'll see various sensors measuring rainfall to calculate enforcement of the 10kmh speed variance.

[xbgs351]

Come to the conclusion that the Gold Coast hinterland mostly consists of
temporary Australians. Was down that way yesterday, and driving on the road
down from Springbrook - 60km/hr speed limit, lots of tight bends, cliffs
each side, double white lines. I was doing about 50-55, occasionally getting
to 60 on the straightish bits, dropping to 30-40 for the corners. This bloke
in a rice-mobile comes up behind me, sits right on my tail for a few
corners, then overtakes on a corner, giving me the finger as he goes past.

Get onto the Nerang-Murwillimbah road. 80km/hr speed limit, mostly solid
double white lines, a few bends and curves that require slowing to 60-70,
but otherwise I'm driving at 80. An SUV gains on me very rapidly, doesn't
sit behind me but just pulls straight out to overtake immediately it catches
up to me - just before a tight corner and in double white lines. Estimate it
was doing somewhere around 120.

Later, there was a big hail storm in the area. The road was covered with
hail and also with leaves torn from the trees. In places the leaves are so
thick that you can't see any of the lines on the road. It is getting quite
dark, it is still raining heavily, and there is the odd branch from a tree
down. I ignored the 80km/hr limit - in the conditions you would have to be
nuts to travel at that speed - so I'm doing closer to 60, sometimes as slow
as 40. Even so, there are times when the visibility, road surface etc
combine to make 60 feel excessive. Yet despite the atrocious conditions we
get overtaken 3 times, twice on blind corners, by cars who are still driving
at 80 or faster. At one point an oncoming vehicle slides across to our side
of the road on an upcoming corner, narrowly missing us.

Sometimes I wonder if we wouldn't be better off without speed limits - seems
that some people haven't quite worked out that the number on the sign is a
maximum speed, not THE speed.

I'm thinking that this guy is not a very competant driver and because he is driving so slow, some other drivers are getting impatient and passing at the first oportunity instead of waiting for a nice and safe opportunity, which on those roads may be a long time. I see a lot of drivers like him in the Snowys and along the south coast of NSW. Even at tortoise like speeds they struggle to stay on their own side of the road and yet they have the audacity to get upset at anybody that drives faster than themselves.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by normxb

Naa mate , when you learn something "you never make a fool of yourself".

I'm a "Bushie" , and I was wrong , when I found out what the answer is , it Really does make sense .

OBJ came up with a Question that "Sounds" very complex , but the answer is surprisingly "Simple" , but very correct and happens in any part of the country . Good try !

Prof_Rabbit , I was thinking the same , Wombat or Rabbit , a clue to the answer is "Anywhere in the country"

Norm

Ok anywhere in the country - doesnt cause much damage but causes issues - then I would suggest birds.

Or alternatively the gallahs behind the wheel

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by new2ford

^^ (last 2 posts)
Likewise I find the F3 electronic speed signs good because they can bring the "limit" down to a sensible one for the conditions. (However sometimes I suspect those electronic signs, like on the Sydney orbital, are used set artificially low in good conditions to trap drivers into "speeding" offences.)

They had those signs on the causeway between Albury and Wodonga. During peak periods they dropped the speed limit from 80 km/h to 60 km/h. Talk about a waste of money. They were always breaking down and being repaired, signs sometimes contradicted each other, the speeds that drivers sat on didn't really change as it was impossible to sit on 80 km/h during peak periods anyway, and the number of accidents remained unchanged.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by VSSII

WTF? How can you be trapped? If the lower limit is being enforced then directly in front of the camera the overhead signs are illuminated to 90 and 8 orange lights flash! Look to your left near the advisory signs next time heading north and you'll see various sensors measuring rainfall to calculate enforcement of the 10kmh speed variance.

I wasn't talking about the F3. Because of the sometimes very dangerous conditions on the F3 this is where the electronic signs are good - and properly used for the purpose of road safety.