What V8 for circuit race car? - Page 5

f1tzy · 12-07-2010, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

Thanks GTP Owner and fitzy

Sonny built the engine
Blueprinted and balanced
Morel Link Bar Roller Lifters
Yella terra roller rockers
Mild roller Cam
Rest is stock

I am mostly after reliability

I think it will also possibly tear your face off with the weight of the car. Should go very well

Walt Kowalski · 12-07-2010, 09:45 PM

It might be up your way late Sept for Jap Nats at Lakeside or Qld round at Morgan Park. Same weekend! Watch this space mate. Love to see you and say thanks for the early guidance re L98

f1tzy · 13-07-2010, 04:22 PM

For sure would be good to see it in action

Walt Kowalski · 15-07-2010, 06:01 PM

[font='Arial', 'sans-serif']Dry sump mostly plumbed. Used the black lines because they look stealth but they are also softer with the teflon outer so less likelihood of scratching paint etc. Nice to work with. The black fittings are Marine Grade double annodised so more durable and less likely to scratch - hopefully. Maybe one downfall is oil leaks don't show up so easily?

Ended up using an AP Racing MC for the clutch. Nicer fit. And reused the Brembo MC's from my old Harrop setup. Harrop setup for sale half price. PM.if interested

Also fabbed a top bracket for the AC Evaporator. Considered an under dash hot rod Evaporator but cheaper, nicer and smaller to use OEM late model FD Evaporator with an alloy top bracket mounting off the roll cage. Will use a fan of some sort to suck air thru the Evaporator. Maybe a small Radiator Fan. Will try to hook up to OEM ducting and fan switch

Plumbed the surge tank with outlets from both rocker covers.

Also fitted up the Turbosmart FPR.[/font]
[font='Arial', 'sans-serif'][/font]
[font='Arial', 'sans-serif']Does anyone know anything about Race Data Logging dashes? I am thinking of using Racepak DL GPS setup. Any clues?[/font]

Walt Kowalski · 15-07-2010, 08:03 PM

Unlike my mate KPOJ who is a genius, I auffer with PEBSAC - Problem Exists Between Spanners And Car

Time to issue some credits:

Marranos built the fairly stock engine (Really professional - highly recommended. Sonny only does AMG MB and Alloy Chevs). He will be the only one to touch the beautiful engine. What he says I do. Sonny = LS Guru.

Ric Shaw installed the John Bowe Performance 20 piston AP Racing brakes from my BA11 XR6T ute with dogbones from Bosnjaks, Atomic Rex rack and Samberg subframe and Samberg diff brace (Great value because Ric is so fast at FD's I suspect). Kit fitted perfectly.Cost of install $500 + parts but he wants to co drive it with me in enduros so maybe a special deal.

Bowens Smash at Windsor doing paint - freebie for hotlaps and stickers, Mind you I gave them $45,000 worth of work last year. Well my wife's driving did with two cars.

Bosnjak's are doing the CNC and most of the rest. They are not the cheapest but their work is outstanding and because I was doing dry sump and Air cond (a world first combo) there is lots of CNC. Terry B said it was the first "kit" he had ever seen that actually fitted 100%. Samberg stuff is awesome BTW Terry B loves the V8 FD idea now but thought I was nuts when I first said what i was doing.

Terry sold his Bathurst Current Lap Record holding FD RX-7 SP (6 seconds faster than Holt, Bowe and Morris 2010 BMWTT winning 12 hour car) a week after he saw the L98 actually sitting in my FD body. He owned that SP for 12 years - since new. It was probably the second most collectible FD RX-7 in the world after the MMM FD and the car has gone to a collector who will restore it. Hasn't been raced for 10 years.

The more technical build thread for my car is

http://www.norotors.com/index.php/topic,1331.15.html

I am very happy with how he (Lightning) is coming along and this morning when I got there the Browne Targa SLR5000 was in the workshop. As I entered i thought "that looks like fun" and then it really hit me. The SLR has 450hp and does 43's at EC. My FD should have 500HP+ Might be fairly quick too but definitely F. U. N.

Another thing to factor: if its a track car the V8 has the torque to move big 18" tyres which are readily available - I sell heaps of 240 270 300 and 310 Michelins - some with only 10 laps and none more than 35 laps but they are ALL 18". Another way to reduce race running costs that is not really available to 13B unless you push big numbers and then .....well you can figure the rest. Unless it is a Corn fed engine.

And it better be reliable or it will be for sale

Walt Kowalski · 16-07-2010, 05:38 AM

And I have saved a special post for Sureflo Exhausts at Ingleburn.

Not only is their work neat and technically advanced but they are, of course, an Australian Ford Forum sponsor.

In the US V8RX-7 Forum where I have been posting the more technical aspects of the build, I have had many PMs about the Sureflo headers.

The yanks are impressed and know how tricky it is to get the headers to flow well in such a tight space and the Sureflo headers are MUCH better than the various options manufactured in the US for the Alloy Chev/FD RX-7 combo.

HIGHLY recommended supplier! Genius Australian work.

Thank you Greg! (Thunder)

Walt Kowalski · 01-09-2010, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

Weighed the Mazda yesterday on Public Weighbridge

Even though it is race stripped it came in at 1267KG with no fuel in cell but 2.5 litres in lines and surge tank

Heavier than I thought it would be and more than 70kg heavier than when I last weighed it at Eastern Creek.

It has had some extra bars in the cage added receently and is currently running 2 seats (long story) and has had some other weight gaining things added for endruros.

It will be interesting to weigh it when the V8 goes in!

I am hoping for no more than an extra 25 kg.

Engine is apparently about 15kgs more than rotary but by the time you add the dry sump system with much larger oil capacity, pumps etc and a heavier T56. etc so who knows where it will end up.

Hopefully it is NOT TOO HEAVY.

1300kg would kinda freak me out.

Anyone want to make some predictions on weight??

Stuck it on the scales today dry 1092kg without one door, any glass, front guards, wiring or battery.

I am pretty impressed as since it was a 1267kg 13BT it has had upgraded XXXL brakes, heavier 18"x10.5" rims, much bigger tyres, AIR CONDITIONING and a very heavy dry sump system.

51 Front / 49 Rear at this stage.

We are still hoping to be just under that 1300kg target which is minium weight for HMSS but it is a big ask with Air Cond and Dry Sump on top of V8 conversion

Walt Kowalski · 02-09-2010, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

Nice one Walt, this car and engine package will be an absolute weapon on the track, do you have a passenger seat in it? if so I bet you could make some money taking people for joy rides.

The choice of LS series engine makes enhancing much easier on the wallet too.

Thanks Phoon. Somehow our posts overlapped and I just read yours.

Will have a passenger seat! Funny but I also had one when it was 13BT but I was always wary of doing laps in case it blew up.

I will not charge for rides. Anyone who helps out will be OK providing the relevant track agrees. Most tracks are OK with hot laps on Friday afternoons before race meetings

And I drive for www.v8max.com so anyone who wants to pay for hot laps should go to this mob. They run a geat show. It's also a dream job. LOL.

Hope to have it on track October 2010

Walt Kowalski · 11-11-2010, 06:01 AM

Been a while since an update so here goes:

3 Hours on the dyno last night and the best we could get was 255RWKW (347HP). Disappointing but still better than any 13BT that I had run with previously so if that’s all there is it would still be OK. Will try again today.

It was initially running out of fuel at higher RPM in higher gears. Fuel pressure at the rails was tested OK so Sonny swapped computers and it ran OK and that’s when it got a best of 255RWKW.

Electronic gremlins!!! It was a thing I have been dreading and it has surfaced. When you buy a Crate Motor there are no sensors and when you go to buy sensors there are so many GM options for the 6 litre it is hit and miss. I suspect more misses than hits. Just so many sensors and so many options even for the electronic accelerator pedal. Corvette, CSV, VY, VE etc! Maybe I should have stuck with cable operated throttle body. A whole lot simpler

It is one thing to rev it while parked but another thing to drive it in 5th gear (on dyno). That’s when the problems happened.

On a mechanical (and brighter) note it has 49 PSI oil Pressure at idle. Very happy with that aspect. A.R.E. Dry sump = GOOD!

And I got to drive it from the car park to the dyno. Feels TOTALLY different and not sure about it. Atomic Rex steering incredibly heavy and the noise in the cockpit makes for a different experience. Brand new KAAZ is TIGHT too and I had forgotten how noisy they are. While the 13BT around the pits was docile there is no mistaking the V8. If anyone was in doubt about its gender I can tell you it’s definitely masculine. Puts a new meaning on the word “beast”.

One last thing though, I feel in very capable hands with Sonny. He really knows these engines. Marrano’s rocks!

OLDFORDNUT · 11-11-2010, 09:45 AM

where are photo's id love to see this work in progress
awsome sounding so far .
cheers Nick

superroo · 11-11-2010, 10:07 AM

What ECU are you running and what was the final weight?

Cheers

Walt Kowalski · 11-11-2010, 02:02 PM

It's been an anxious 15 hours.

Sonny spent all morning on it. Has never seen pressure levels like it except in a Turbo LSx car. Something definitely wrong no matter what MAP sensor he substituted or what ECU he plugged in. Scaling ther MAP did not work as it cut fuel delievery also.

Thinks he has found the problem. The MAP sensor wire is plugged into the ECU where LS1 wires go (rather than DBW cars).

He will put the old ECU back in and see what happens with Manifold Pressure. Hopefully I will get it this afternoon. He needs it out of the dyno room as LSx cars are queueing up and I want to get it finished so it can have a real life shake of the nuts and bolts on the track

Might need some big stickers here.

LOL

Walt Kowalski · 11-11-2010, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLDFORDNUT

where are photo's id love to see this work in progress
awsome sounding so far .
cheers Nick

Awesome sounding is SPOT ON Nick

Check this exhaust.

Walt Kowalski · 11-11-2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superroo

What ECU are you running and what was the final weight?

Cheers

Running C6 E38 ECU. Apparently a Bosch also used on AMG. Cheap too,

Last weight was 1187Kgs. Since then we have added heated Atomic Rex UK windscreen and side lexan and rear hatch so probably 1200kgs.

In 13B trim it was 1267kgs (see an old post in this thread somewhere) and this car now has
MUCH bigger brakes
18" x 10.5 rims all round Vs 17"
AIR CONDITIONING
15 Litre dry sump and heavy pump.

But the bast news is the claims that the LSx gives the FD RX-7 better balance have been proven on the scales.

49.6% front 50.4% rear. When we add fuel and driver that no will get even better. Unbelievable but true and the other factor is the V8 has a lot of its weight in the crankshaft which sits very low so lower COG than rotary which sits high and has 4 cast iron bits which sit aroiund the rotors as well as a heavy E Shaft and turbo etc up high.

I really have to thank all the guys on this forum who helped choose the alloy C^%v ans especially Australian Ford Forum Sponsor Sureflo Exhausts who have done an amazing job on the exhaust.

Even Sonny and Murat said it sounds SENSATIONAL.

Has a beautiful pitch at high RPM

Fireblade · 11-11-2010, 02:55 PM

Nice one Walt, looks great in the engine bay, love the look of those headers too. Power to weight ratio will be through the roof along with the torque from the L98. Great combination and can't wait to hear what it goes like in its natural habitat (the track).

Walt Kowalski · 11-11-2010, 05:10 PM

Wires swapped. Revving OK and thought it was sorted. But then the MAP reading went haywire again.

Not the ECU’s (Has tested 3 in car)

Not the MAP sensor (FD has played up with 3 different MAP Sensors which have all worked well in 2 separate VE’s AND tested perfect on the Dyno

Said for me to take it for a test run and see how it goes but monitor AFRs as he is not as confident as he would normally be. Has never seen anything like it even in swapped cars

If it went from say 12.5 to 1 to 18 to 1 at WOT on hot day I can expect to see a piston in flight.

[font=Calibri', 'sans-serif]Thinks it is an Electrical issue so I will get it double checked[/font]
[font=Calibri', 'sans-serif][/font]
[font=Calibri', 'sans-serif]Any ideas?[/font]

Fireblade · 11-11-2010, 05:18 PM

is it standard MAP sensor or a aftermarket? have you tried an aftermarket 2 bar MAP sensor? Sometimes with these engines you can yield better results with the MAF sensor rather then a MAFless tune. Have you checked all wiring and connectors, might be an issue with a faulty connector or mis-wired connector, or faulty wiring. Is the wiring getting heat affected this can confuse a signal to the ECU too.

I would sort before a shakedown at WOT in case it throws a leg out of bed.

Trevor 57 · 12-11-2010, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

Wires swapped. Revving OK and thought it was sorted. But then the MAP reading went haywire again.

Not the ECU’s (Has tested 3 in car)

Not the MAP sensor (FD has played up with 3 different MAP Sensors which have all worked well in 2 separate VE’s AND tested perfect on the Dyno

Said for me to take it for a test run and see how it goes but monitor AFRs as he is not as confident as he would normally be. Has never seen anything like it even in swapped cars

If it went from say 12.5 to 1 to 18 to 1 at WOT on hot day I can expect to see a piston in flight.

[font=Calibri', 'sans-serif]Thinks it is an Electrical issue so I will get it double checked[/font]
[font=Calibri', 'sans-serif][/font]
[font=Calibri', 'sans-serif]Any ideas?[/font]

ahhhh, I love my 351 Cleveland, with 650 Holley double pumper sitting atop -

superroo · 12-11-2010, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

Wires swapped. Revving OK and thought it was sorted. But then the MAP reading went haywire again.

Sounds like a wiring fault (dodgy connection) that is giving up when you try to use it, or a fault with the programming in the ecu, with it thinking the signal it is receiving is abnormal and substituting a "good" signal (fault coding).

I'd try the wiring first. Try running a new set of wires from the ecu to the sensor (just enough to run the map). No need to make it look pretty, just use it as a proof of concept that it is the wiring, then go from there.

Agree with the fix it before shakedown. I would almost bet that if you shook it down, the fault would show at the worst possible time.

[EDIT]New loom for the LS or did you modify the 13B loom?

Cheers

Walt Kowalski · 12-11-2010, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

is it standard MAP sensor or a aftermarket? have you tried an aftermarket 2 bar MAP sensor? Sometimes with these engines you can yield better results with the MAF sensor rather then a MAFless tune. Have you checked all wiring and connectors, might be an issue with a faulty connector or mis-wired connector, or faulty wiring. Is the wiring getting heat affected this can confuse a signal to the ECU too.

I would sort before a shakedown at WOT in case it throws a leg out of bed.

Standard but we switched to late model L98 and it helped. Main problem was electrical interference because the wires are close to ECU.

I may have unittentionally mislead earlier. Sonny never implied I should go WOT just maybe give it a steady run but when I got there later in the day he changed his mind and said he wanted to get on top of it before it left the dyno room. He had spent quite a few days on it and I am VERY HAPPY with his effort (and results) Marranos are HIGHLY recommended if my ecxperience is anything to go by.

Walt Kowalski · 12-11-2010, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

ahhhh, I love my 351 Cleveland, with 650 Holley double pumper sitting atop -

LOL Trev. Nothing wrong with a bit of old fashioned simplicity!

Walt Kowalski · 12-11-2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superroo

....New loom for the LS or did you modify the 13B loom?

Cheers

Every wire in car is new. New engine harness too. $365 on eBay from Ian at LSx conversions who has been unbelievably helpful for months. Dunno how he makes any money to be honest. Must like emailing. LOL

Walt Kowalski · 12-11-2010, 10:27 PM

[font='Verdana', 'sans-serif']Its been a busy few days

Seven actual hours of running on the dyno (hour meter) and its sweet. New L98 MAP sensor and insulated wires.

Today I had the wheel alignment done at Jax Windsor ($80 race car special on their beautiful German digital machine by Lenny who is a race setup nut) and when I went to reverse it out I slotted 5th instead of reverse.

Its a 3.9 diff with tall 690mm high tyres (27 inch) and 5th is a 0.74 overdrive but guess what? It drove forward with no issues. In 5th. From a standing start.

5th is good for 310 KPH so you could theoretically go from 0 - 310kph in one gear.

And it sounds wicked.

I am starting to like it. [/font]

Fireblade · 13-11-2010, 03:37 AM

Good to hear Walt, top effort by all, I've also heard good things about Sonny

wrongwaynorris · 13-11-2010, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 388cube_edxr8

Mate go with a Land Rover 3.5L V8. It will rev a little harder than you want but they are all Alloy. You can pick the whole motor up with on arm if you can find a place to grab. A little supercharger and you can't lose. I was going to put one in the Gemini and race it but I need to get a job first lol.

Could'nt agree more , after the Hemi far and away the best production pushrod V8 ever made . Creams everything in specific output in relation to its capacity and weight .

Walt Kowalski · 13-11-2010, 06:16 PM

Are you a bit late to the party mate or just haven't read all the posts?

Aiming to go to WP this tuesday if anyone is around and maybe EC friday

Come say hello. Especially if you are handy on the tools. LOL

Fireblade · 13-11-2010, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

Are you a bit late to the party mate or just haven't read all the posts?

Aiming to go to WP this tuesday if anyone is around and maybe EC friday

Come say hello. Especially if you are handy on the tools. LOL

If I lived over your way Walt I would be down and definitely on the tools, I love working on Fast cars.

wrongwaynorris · 13-11-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

Are you a bit late to the party mate or just haven't read all the posts?

Aiming to go to WP this tuesday if anyone is around and maybe EC friday

Come say hello. Especially if you are handy on the tools. LOL

Yeah was scrolling through the thread for the first time today and responded , then read the next 3 and a half pages and realised . Handy on the tools ( used to run my own division 2 sports sedan back in the late 70's early 80's ) but working both days sadly M8. Maybe another time .

Walt Kowalski · 16-11-2010, 05:25 PM

Racepak IQ3 Data Logging Dash is a pain. It's now 6 days wasted trying to get it to work.

Marrano's handheld scanner, his laptop and his dyno all read the info outputted from the ECU

Haltech Peter came over this morning (Haltech only 1.7 klms away) and could get nothing from the ECU. No data whatsoever onto his laptop.

After speaking with Sonny (Marrano's) he tried something else and was getting all sorts of numbers on the laptop but could not get the Racepak dash to co-operate with the ECU.

We substituted a new interface but no joy.

Just another example of how good Sonny is with these engines. He gets the data but Haltech cannot even when Sonny tells them where it is and they can see it on their laptop; but not the dash.

I am now going separate sensors feeding to the dash. Hopefully they will be completed and working by tomorrow night.

I should have Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, Coolant Temp and Inlet Air Temp + Tacho. Better than nothing but not what I was told by Haltech would be available thru the interface of the original setup - which was supposed to be capable of monitoring 17 channels (plus Tacho) not 4 (plus Tacho

Walt Kowalski · 25-11-2010, 09:32 PM

Car had a brief shakedown last Friday at Eastern Creek and a short test seesion at Wakefield yesterday

It did 5 CONSECUTIVE laps in the 1.03's even though it had a severe tailshaft vibration and the brakes and handling need lots of sorting. It should be pretty quick when sorted.

It is entered in the Wakefield 300 endurance race this weekend and if we have sorted out tailshaft vibration by then it should be somewhere near the pointy end.

TOP TEN SHOTOUT at 4pm Saturday. Race 2pm Sunday.

All welcome especially if you want to help out in any way. No experience necessary and its a fantastic race meeting. We need people on tyre pressures, tyre temps, wheel changing, refuelling etc!

If you want to help out no point in posting or PM ing as I am heading to the track but if you want to help, just out call me on 0428 219888. I have rented a 5 bedroom house nearby that the team is staying at.

Thanks!