drive com fg vs sidi ve. surprise!

[Whitey-AMG]

Where are these SIDI HOLDEN engines manufactured nowadays ?


Let's not be too critical here !
Despite some of the findings, it should be looked at from a local perspective.

Holden may be targeting prospective CAMRY / AURION buyers as well as Falcons with their new lineup. The marketing is probably more aimed at diffusing CAMRY sales methinks. If a "local" product can get incremental sales from an "imported" product, then we may all benefit in the long run ?

Manufacturing and investment from local players is poor enough already, so we need to be more mindful of some of the repercussions of strangling HOLDENS marketing strategy. Poorer sales of the SIDI models does not necessarily mean better sales for the FALCON..........it may just mean more sales again for TOYOTA and another catastrohic blow for the local players ????

Just a thought.

[ltd]

Spot on swordsman88, and I think the motoring community would be better off with wagons in the city than the SUV's which seem to cause much friction on every one else. I'm glad for the trends and hope they continue.

ESP, the engines are assembled here from imported blocks, heads and by in large imported components (yes I know, some components are made here, but not too many). I suppose you're right though, it does keep some people in a job. Just a pity about the marketing strategy which chooses to identify and try to shame the local competition (Toyota started it with the "game has changed" tag). Holden should have tried to kick realistic goals and state the efficiency over the previous V6 they had, not try to conquer the motoring world with spurious claims about its frugality.

[Joe5619]

This one has made me laugh

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...ID=67133&vf=12


Dealers must be getting allot of questions!! Those adds must have worked.

[greenfoam]

Originally Posted by GT69

I've never understood people spending $20,000 on a NEW small car....to save 3 - 5 litres per 100km.....seems like a false economy to me.

Depends, my wife bought a new Fiesta on credit and it works out almost the same paying for the car as the difference in fuel and parts compared to her Jeep Cherokee so she ends up with a car for free really :0, but in that case it's not 3-5 litres more like 10

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by GTP006

Highway comparisons, whilst interesting, hold little real world siginificance to 90% of cars on the road. Depending on which urban area you live in, your average speed will probably be between 30km/h and 45km/h for the life of the car.

You will be stopping and starting, slowing down and speeding up, going up hills and down. I think the Bathurst test is pretty reasonable.

Falcon wins, no more meeds to be said

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! :

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

This one has made me laugh

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...ID=67133&vf=12


Dealers must be getting allot of questions!! Those adds must have worked.

Re trained :hihi: ......ie Manipulate/Lie/BS customers !!!!! Thats Funny!!!!

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

This one has made me laugh

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...ID=67133&vf=12
Dealers must be getting allot of questions!! Those adds must have worked.

Yep, what a great way to blunt the entry of General Motor Holden's great hope, the 3.0L VE Commodore...

Put simply, real world conditions show the Falcon 4.0L more economical than the 3.0L Holden.

GMH have done it to Ford so many times with one-off show cars when Ford had their latest model released. Great work Ford. Keep advertising it.

PS It's amazing that Toby 'self confessed red-fan' Hagan, is actually standing up for Ford and putting GMH in their place. Amazing what a bit of mutual co-operation (ie we'll use your story-effectively advertising Drive) has now resulted in.

[phillyc]

I've just emailed Ford Aus to say, how about continuing to advertise the 'There's no way to sugar coat it, Commodore is 19% thirstier than it's rating and 10% more than Ford Falcon.'

I've seen the advert just the once. Not good enough. Good to see the advert has at least had an impact at the GMH dealer level.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

This one has made me laugh

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...ID=67133&vf=12


Dealers must be getting allot of questions!! Those adds must have worked.

That is funny.

My local paper had a recent road test of the 3 litre VE and came away largely un-impressed with its economy, and AMC magazine was also un-impressed, saying a torquey Falcon will come very close to matching its economy figures in the real world.

SIDI= Fail

[4Vman]

Another embarrasing outcome for Holdens gimmicky marketing acronyms...
This time Ford held Holden accountable for their BS.. i wish they'd take AFM on too....

SIDI + AFM = marketing BS

[Falc'man]

Haha Holden are better off keeping their mouth's shut on this one, because "there's no way to sugar coat it."

"Mount Panorama's 174-metre climb likened to mountains in Switzerland." This climb, with a rolling start, is no different to stop-starting. At the end of the day it was a fair fight; same track, same conditions, same loads etc etc.. they lost. Sore losers.

Norm, wasn't there a comparison of the XR8 and AM/FM-SS done by Caradvice?

[SSD-85]

I think the biggest issue with the XR8 & AFM SS comparison was the AFM made F/A difference...

[g220ba]

what i don't understand is yes you drive up the mountain but i'm pretty sure they came back down the other side. both cars did the same course, same distance how is this not a reflection of fuel efficiency.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Haha Holden are better off keeping their mouth's shut on this one, because "there's no way to sugar coat it."

"Mount Panorama's 174-metre climb likened to mountains in Switzerland." This climb, with a rolling start, is no different to stop-starting. At the end of the day it was a fair fight; same track, same conditions, same loads etc etc.. they lost. Sore losers.

Norm, wasn't there a comparison of the XR8 and AM/FM-SS done by Caradvice?

Yep, XR8 out performed the SS in acceleration and RWKW and gave better economy too from memory.

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yep, XR8 out performed the SS in acceleration and RWKW and gave better economy too from memory.

linky: http://www.caradvice.com.au/30255/fo...final-verdict/

Oh no Norm....we did lose the fuel economy to the SS. By 0.03 L/100km LOL That was despite making some 30+kw more at the rear wheels and being faster over the quarter with more weight....

Originally Posted by phyllic

PS It's amazing that Toby 'self confessed red-fan' Hagan, is actually standing up for Ford and putting GMH in their place. Amazing what a bit of mutual co-operation (ie we'll use your story-effectively advertising Drive) has now resulted in.

Yes i was surprised by this too. Maybe it was the use of drivel in the ford ad...or maybe Hagon has got the irks with GMH after recieving the abusive emails?? Either way the tide is turning on this issue. If Holden keep on getting busted in this manner RE the marketing blurb not matching the books contents, and Ford and others making it known the the general public, then it will start affecting the private buyer (real money) sales.

Its a bit like the toyo kluger roll over. Toyota went crazy against wheels, to the point of legal wrangling and threats of advertising being removed. If you get caught lieing publicly on a major marketing push its toxic to not only the product you are spruiking but your entire brand....

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by 84ltd

what i don't understand is yes you drive up the mountain but i'm pretty sure they came back down the other side. both cars did the same course, same distance how is this not a reflection of fuel efficiency.

Exactly. What goes up must come down. Gravity dictates this. Interesting to note Holden thinks the public are dumb enough to believe their BS. Both cars would have had almost 0-1l/100km consumption on the run down the hill, hampering the SIDIDI's overall fuel economy even more :

[prydey]

is there a new ford ad that quotes the bathurst test? if so, anyone got a link. i haven't seen it yet.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yep, XR8 out performed the SS in acceleration and RWKW and gave better economy too from memory.

This was the Car Advice conclusions:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/30255/fo...final-verdict/

■Ford Falcon XR8
■9.82-litres/100km.
■235.0kW – at the wheels. 288.8kW – at the flywheel.
■6.54-seconds 0-100km/h.
■14.72-seconds @ 163.89km/h.
■39.75m 100-0km/h.
■Holden Commodore SS (AFM)
■9.79-litres/100km.
■204.5kW – at the wheels. 252.4kW – at the flywheel.
■6.74-seconds 0-100km/h.
■14.80-seconds @ 161.38km/h.
■38.79m 100-0km/h.

Note, that i sent them a text to say both cars should've had air con on. Only the XR8 did during the day. So to equalise it as best as they could the GMHolden had it on during the night run home. Personally, unless it's set to max, it's not going to work as hard at night. Surely...

So, anyway for the SS-AFM car which is meant to be 12.9L versus 14.1L for the XR8, to win by 0.03L/100km is pathetic. I repeat pathetic.

But back on topic. The 4.0L Falcon is 'more likely' to be economical than the 3.0L Commodore. The 4.0L is an inherently superior design compared to a 3.0L 'higher tech but sub-optimal' design.

[data_mine]

Originally Posted by phillyc

to win by 0.03L/100km is pathetic. I repeat pathetic.

And I'm sure 0.03 is well within statistical error.

e.g. my GT-P fill to fill fluctuates ~0.5L/100

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

linky: http://www.caradvice.com.au/30255/fo...final-verdict/

Oh no Norm....we did lose the fuel economy to the SS. By 0.03 L/100km LOL That was despite making some 30+kw more at the rear wheels and being faster over the quarter with more weight....

Oopps, my bad!

Also if ever there was a test to suit AFM its a long distance constant speed trip like Syd to melb....

[ltd]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Oopps, my bad!

Also if ever there was a test to suit AFM its a long distance constant speed trip like Syd to melb....

On one tank?
Sorry, had to throw that in. You know, Holden marketing BS and all.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by drive.com

Holden also failed to point out that the Falcon it beat by just 0.6L/100km was the high-performance turbocharged version that accelerates faster than Holden's 6.0-litre V8

Gee they have changed their tune haven't they. Holden PR must be packing bricks right now.

[XWGT]

Yep, as per above

2 peices of unbiased journalism, and a whack behind the ear for GM at the same time.

GM forgotten to post the monthly cheques? lol

[The Snout]

The SIDI is becoming the Starfire Mk II for Holden.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Yep, as per above

2 peices of unbiased journalism, and a whack behind the ear for GM at the same time.

GM forgotten to post the monthly cheques? lol

Maybe the journo's are actually doing some work rather than just reading the sales brochure.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

Yes i was surprised by this too. Maybe it was the use of drivel in the ford ad...or maybe Hagon has got the irks with GMH after recieving the abusive emails??

For me, this seems what triggered it. Questioning the integrity of Drive.com and their tests etc. If you push, you will more than likely get pushed back, especially in business. And this IS business.

I also dont think we should forget about that supreme and aggressive beast that is the Holden Marketing Team. They have outwitted Ford for many years now and i wouldn't underestimate them.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Wats the bet holden will now supply some new cars for someone to test with some tweeks??

[aualright]

Drive and Holden's relationship beginning to sour...or perhaps the marketing dollars have run out. Having said that, they (Drive) still haven't explained an article last week that claimed the new HSV was the first aussie car with launch control. A few comments pointed to the fact that this feature came out with the FG, but no update was forthcoming from the journo.

"The GTS' 6.2-litre V8 has been tweaked to provide an extra 8kW, bringing the final output to 325kW and giving GTS buyers bragging rights over those who opt for the more affordable ClubSport, which remains at 317kW.

It's debatable whether buyers will be able to pick the extra power but they will be able to get off the line quicker thanks to the car's new launch-control feature. The system, a first on an Australian production car, is easy to use: put the car's stability control system into competition mode, press the clutch, rev the engine, release the clutch and the program takes the guesswork out of getting all that power and torque to the ground."
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...946&vf=13&pg=3

[R-Design]

GMH is starting to sound like the walking wounded. First they replaced a product guy for a marketing man to run the ship, and then they shed Engineers & Marketing staff. It’s only a matter of time before the effect of these changes is felt. Lets hope Ford continue to exploit the situation.

Holden to axe hundreds of white-collar jobs

Holden future looks secure as Batey takes helm

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Wats the bet holden will now supply some new cars for someone to test with some tweeks??

Been thinking the same thing. I reckon if GM Holden knew the test was going to be an economy test it would've happened. Just like they've upped the power for Motor tests in the past.