|
Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated. |
|
The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
View Poll Results: Which will be quicker over 400m FG2 GT or F6 | |||
The GT will smash the F6 by over 0.5 of a second | 34 | 12.69% | |
The GT will be just a tiny bit quicker | 80 | 29.85% | |
It will be too close to predict | 59 | 22.01% | |
The F6 will be just a tiny bit quicker | 58 | 21.64% | |
The F6 will smash the GT by over 0.5 of a second | 18 | 6.72% | |
Who cares, HSV will be quicker anyway | 19 | 7.09% | |
Voters: 268. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
27-04-2010, 05:47 PM | #121 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
|
Quote:
I have a friend that has a older model WRX STI, which he is going to keep as he is a member of the WRX club and it is a big passion of his. Having said all this he has said that when he buys a large car in the future, which is likely to happen, he is really impressed with the F6. When asked if he would consider the GT, his answer was no, not into V8's. His phrase was "I want a car that gets from A to B and sneezes in between". V8's are not everything to all people, why not cater for that? I do agree that perhaps the F6 should be priced and specced a bit lower than GT (with perhaps a healthy options list), perhaps something like GS for example.
__________________
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
|||
27-04-2010, 05:53 PM | #122 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
|
Quote:
Unfortunately I think FPV may put the F6 in the "can't be bothered" basket once they have the V8 performing and sales reflect that. I think that would be a mistake as the F6 is making a big name for itself and this something that could be exploited rather than neglected. When you look at the R&D, GT is expensive as it involves the development of a complete engine that is not in standard Ford use, F6 is cheaper as it is just a further development of the existing large volume selling 6T in XR6T, G6ET and Territory Turbo. Why not support this at a lower price range and spec level?
__________________
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
|||
27-04-2010, 05:54 PM | #123 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 727
|
Oh dear, seems to me that FLAPPIST's original poll has evolved into the old 16T v V8 argument - allrighty, which one really has the biggest balls - stay tuned on release date LOL.
|
||
27-04-2010, 05:58 PM | #124 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
|
Quote:
If FPV take over the XR8 id imagine it will be placed somewhere between it and the GT price wise although the 315 badge on the XR8 will confuse things a bit as the F6 is staying at 310. But you've made some good points too and i think FPV will ultimately rationalize the range to save money like they will do with the utes.. Again, its not my wish that the F6 vanish, nor am i anti I6T, even if i am regularly accused of it. Hey, i even own a FG I6 XR6! I'm just expressing my views from my perspective.
__________________
335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. |
|||
27-04-2010, 06:02 PM | #125 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
|
Quote:
I just hope that the F6 retains both sufficient buyer support and corporate support from FPV, and we retain a choice in the range that those in the red corner do not enjoy. Then it will be a FPV Performance
__________________
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
|||
27-04-2010, 08:12 PM | #126 | |||
AWD Assassin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,170
|
Quote:
Whenever there is a thread started that compares the 6 with the 8 it will always draw plenty of emotion and plenty of bias from both camps. I think the V8 boys are looking forward to some reciprocal trouncing with the release of the new S/C V8..........its been brewing for quite some time and I think we may have to batten down the hatches if what has been proposed will materialise. As previously posted, I don't really think the new 8 will beat the F6.......but if it does..............there will be plenty of.......... |
|||
27-04-2010, 09:24 PM | #127 | ||
Long live the GT !
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 1,863
|
The F6 has always had an advantage over the GT's because let's face it, forced induction always wins!
Now that both models will be 'charged', it will be a much fairer game. And it might be a good marketing move for FPV to bring back the "Force6" & "Force8" badges too! Personally, if someone offered me the choice between a 600hp F6 or a 420hp GT?...I'd take the latter every time...that's how much I like my V8's! Each to their own, performance isn't always everything...
__________________
2018 Ford Mustang GT - Oxford White | Auto | Herrod Tune | K&N Filter | StreetFighter Oil Separators | H&R Springs | Whiteline Vertical Links | Ceramic Protection | Tint "Whatya think of me car, XR Falcon, 351 Blown Cleveland running Motec injection and runnin' on methanol... goes pretty hard too, got heaps of torque for chucking burnouts, IT'S UNREAL !!" - Poida
|
||
27-04-2010, 09:25 PM | #128 | ||
The 'Stihl' Man
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,591
|
I cant understand why people wont think the V8 will make more power or be quicker than the I6?
It has more capacity, in theory should have more torque and power all straight off idle. Now the I6T hardly takes any time to get into its band but the V8 s/c should be instant. Look at the times that the n/a coyote is pulling, yeah ok the stang is a bit lighter but even with the relative peaky numbers it produces it hammers. Add a s/c and it sorts out the "lack" of bottom end and it will be a weapon. I truely dont understand all the rubbish that goes on between both types of people, at the end of the day they will produce pretty similar numbers; but the most important thing is atleast we have choice. If GMH/HSV had any other engine worth slotting into their range then they would do it. The XU6 died a horrible death simply because a stock BA I6 had equivalent performance. I am 100% sure if they had another avenue to persue to create new clients and strengthen there OVERALL sales then they would do it in a heart beat.
__________________
Last edited by Polyal; 27-04-2010 at 09:31 PM. |
||
27-04-2010, 10:02 PM | #129 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
|
I voted for the GT to be marginally quicker. If both get better & wider tyres then each will be in 12.x second bracket. Getting a half second advantage in that territory (which is seriously fast for a road car) will be incredibly hard.
Some seem to forget that the F6/XR6T both offer a 10% overboost function from the factory too. Which gives them 600-620Nm to potentially play with. No wonder the F6 rivals a 911Turbo with an in-gear 2.7s dash from 80-120kmh! Either way, Ford & FPV will have an amazing line-up! Lets see some Redblood.
__________________
BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
||
28-04-2010, 08:53 AM | #130 | |||
Trev
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Was Perth, now country Vic
Posts: 8,017
|
Quote:
And you are correct, this two times XR6T and two time F6 owner would have bought the V8 if it could hold a candle to the Turbo car. I even was fairly determined to have a change and buy an FG Super Pursuit this time around, drove a 315 GT and was quite shocked at how weak it felt even compared to the 70,000km old BF F6 I had at the time. Thus I didn't want to pay a heap of money and trade in a perfectly good car to go backwards. So although I wanted some of the fruit the SP came with, and had fell in love with the SP in white with black stripes, I just couldn't do it. If it was even remotely close in performance, I would have bought the SP, but you have to be spinning past 4000rpm in the current motor before it wakes up, conversely I rarely ever need to go over 4000rpm in the F6. The new V8 will not even have to prove quicker than the F6 to win customers over, all it has to do is get close. And for me, and most other people with half a brain, that means more than 0-100 and 1/4 mile times, it means overtaking urge and real world performance. By the way, all four of my turbo cars have never been tuned or modified, suspension and brakes yes, but have never bothered with the engine. In FG I can't see me needing to do it as the tyres have no hope of coping with the standard power and torque. I am quite sure that giving it more would only make the car slower. I got over the drags by the time I was out of my teens. If the new GT has more power and torque than the F6, it will be almost useless unless it also come with better tyres and suspension. And if they give it more grip it is going to break a lot more stuff, diffs, axles, boxes etc. So just strapping a blower to a new V8 is not going to cut it, the whole driveline will need to be seriously upgraded.
__________________
Trev (FPV FG II GT-E thus the fully loaded burger with the lot as standard +Alpine/Dynamat fitout - 2 of only 4 ever made GT-E factory 9" rear rims - Michelin Pilot Supersports - Shockworks Suspension) Last edited by mcnews; 28-04-2010 at 09:06 AM. |
|||
28-04-2010, 09:29 AM | #131 | |||
Force Fed Fords
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Enroute
Posts: 4,050
|
I love my I6T, but I really hope that coyote will be quicker.
I'd put money down on a supercharged G8E-TT today if I could.
__________________
If brains were gasoline, you wouldn't have enough to power an ants go-cart a half a lap around a Cheerio - Ron Shirley Quote:
|
|||
28-04-2010, 03:51 PM | #132 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,505
|
so many one eyed v8 supporters case and point as I see it is the F6es are at the limits in terms of 1/4 mile times that the tyre width on the rear will allow, having more power on the same rubber I cant see it helping - it will just make it more difficult to drive down the 1/4 mile due to excessive axle tramp and sidestepping as the tyres just cannot take the power fed to them and let go. Now if Ford address this tyre issue for the coyote I give it a whole 10 minutes before somebody slaps the same wheels under an F6 to give it more grip as well. IMHO both cars will be over powered given the grip they have at present. For years many have wanted Ford to go staggered fitment or wider rubber as an option because the cars in their current configuration have too much power. Rubber will be the difference here.
__________________
Phantom, T56, leather and sunroof BAmk1 :yeees: Holden special vehicles - for special people |
||
28-04-2010, 04:52 PM | #133 | |||
AWD Assassin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,170
|
Quote:
Tyres is only part of the equation. Suspension tuning , driveline ( trans and diff ) and even the rubber bushes are just as important. Then you have tail shaft NVH issues and the list goes on and on. Simply bolting on a set of wider rear wheels and tyres may be good for the short term - but these things need to be built to last for 3 years at least !!!!!! T6 will always be kinder on take off than a S/C V8. The torque transfer is different on WOT from take off. The "potential" for the S/C Coyote is certainly there to embarass the T6......but it is how FPV can find a way to make it hang together which is the real challenge methinks. If they cannot reach their longevity targets.......the new engine package may well be tuned to suit. This will be great for the aftermarket where this engine will come into its own, but for what we are talking about here, I still reckon the F6 will come out on top in a 1/4 mile stoush ( factory stock ).........not because its a better / stronger engine.......but because the Coyote may be "tuned" to be kinder to the overall drivetrain. |
|||
28-04-2010, 05:26 PM | #134 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
|
Quote:
That makes no sense.. if things are that close to the limit at the very worst wouldnt they de tune it to be identical to the F6???
__________________
335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. |
|||
28-04-2010, 05:29 PM | #135 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
|
Quote:
__________________
335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. |
|||
28-04-2010, 05:35 PM | #136 | ||
Wizard Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: South Eastern Victoria
Posts: 3,999
|
This engine will never embarrass the F6, Ford cannot make it much faster than what the F6 already is (even with no update power increase) without giving themselves head room for future upgrades. With all the changes being made expect the cost to probably be higher for the new gen FPV V8 as there will be more development costs than just the engine, they will have to figure in a better trans at least as the rumour of the torque output is very close to the rated limit of the ZF. Then there is the rest of the driveline and whatever else FPV develop for the new gen.
__________________
Frosty and FPR - Bathurst winners 2013 |
||
28-04-2010, 05:44 PM | #137 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 179
|
It's would be nice to think the V8 will be quicker in a straight line, but really it is a little myopic to not look at the whole package.
As it stands the F6 is slower around a racetrack (that's the place that sorts out speed, handling and brakes) than a GT and at the moment the HSV comfortably accounts for the GT. If the Coyote can cover all bases and be quicker (and it should be, being non turboed and therefore provide a progressive power delivery) than that is what will place the car to the forefront and hopefully a vehicle to savour for a long time. |
||
28-04-2010, 05:46 PM | #138 | ||
I am Groot
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnett Heads, Qld
Posts: 6,840
|
I gotta admit I went with the F6 by a smidgen, but that was only a rough guestimate....
I would be more interested in seeing how they perform against each other under a sustained hammering around Bathurst or something like that, never was interested in 1/4 mile stats....
__________________
.. McLaren F1 Dick Johnson Racing "Those were the days when the cars were cars, they weren't built out of an Ikea pack like they are now and clothed in plastic; they were real cars." John Bowe |
||
28-04-2010, 07:15 PM | #139 | |||
GT
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SYDNEY
Posts: 9,205
|
Quote:
we can only hope . the FG series GT was not promoted by FPV ford or anyone else or pegged against any other performance car . heres hope the MKII with the coyote will atleast have a challange against the others rather than be tucked away behind F6 BEUROCRATIC BS . a few posts back someone mentions how the GT 315 outperforms the f6 on the track . if this is true it's the only such comment or promotion of the fpv v8's performance that i have heard in 2 whole years . shame shame shame . as i said earlier i do not believe the new coyote will eclipse the F6 . nor should it . the F6 has acheived cult status just like the GT . IF IT DOES EAT THE F6 than it would be high end pricey and out do the F6 in every other anvenue . i dont think FPV want this for the AUSSIE iconic 6. |
|||
28-04-2010, 07:30 PM | #140 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Perth
Posts: 904
|
Quote:
__________________
RIDES 76 ZH Fairlane 500, Mushroom Beige, Brown vinyl roof, 351 c4 13.361 @ 104mph 2.001 60ft 208rwkw ZH BUILD |
|||
29-04-2010, 01:34 AM | #141 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
|
Quote:
|
|||
29-04-2010, 09:08 AM | #142 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,215
|
Quote:
Same hear! Who buys a $70000 car to drag race. Just kids and rat bags dreaming. There is a lot more to it as to why some one would buy a car then that 1/4 mile rubbish. Remember the EF XR6 vs XR8 and all the raving of the XR6 times over the 1/4. yes it went well. but that's about it. the XR8 was a way better car to drive. and would hose off the XR6 after the 1/4. 1/4 mile worshipers |
|||
29-04-2010, 09:54 AM | #143 | |||
AWD Assassin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,170
|
Quote:
I'm saying that because of the power delivery of Turbo spool v PD S/C , that it may be difficult to get the coyote off the line and then have the same ( or more ) neck snapping power delivery of the turbo after spool up to compensate. It may be more difficult to achieve what the F6 can with the Coyote simply because with the PD/SC its more of an "on" or "off" type delivery wheras the turbo gradually spools ( albeit very quickly in the F6 ). S/C = more linear delivery 6T = more Bell curve So what I'm "guessing" at, is that the Coyote will struggle to keep up with the F6 if its torque is truncated below 2000 RPM to make it kinder to the driveline on take off. It would then basically need to produce MUCH more torque and HP above 2000RPM than the F6 does to compensate or even keep up......let alone beat it ! If they can pull it off.....well done to them. Realistically, my own personal opinion is that it may not be possible.....in stock offering off the showroom floor anyways. In terms of what this package will offer to the aftermarket in terms of pulley changeover and Cuctom tune.......( and there will be MANY MANY buyers that will do this )......it will be a whole different ball game. |
|||
29-04-2010, 10:21 AM | #144 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
|
Quote:
It may be prudent for you to read a bit of history on here with regard to the hobbies and car usage by some of the admins and supermods before casting such aspersions.... |
|||
29-04-2010, 11:32 AM | #145 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
|
[QUOTE=castellan]Same hear!
Who buys a $70000 car to drag race. Just kids and rat bags dreaming. There is a lot more to it as to why some one would buy a car then that 1/4 mile rubbish. Remember the EF XR6 vs XR8 and all the raving of the XR6 times over the 1/4. yes it went well. but that's about it. the XR8 was a way better car to drive. and would hose off the XR6 after the 1/4. 1/4 mile worshipers [/QUOTE we are car enthusiasts(we`ll most of us), likeing better perrforming cars does`nt make us ratbags. |
||
29-04-2010, 12:30 PM | #146 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,424
|
i'd always struggled with the concept of GT flagship being slower than the F6..engine note doesn't worry me that much when my daily driver/rider sounds like a jar full of angry bees..
Rod Barrett is on record as saying the GT will be the quickest australian mass produced car (ie. not GT-H/W427) clearly including F6 so my money is on Rod delivering (by a smidge)..that'll be magazine times as i doubt many journos know how to launch an F6 properly and the GT will be easier for them.. |
||
29-04-2010, 01:21 PM | #147 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Perth, W.A.
Posts: 422
|
Crickey.
We know that the power figures will be understated. We know it will have more torque. So the power of the new GT has a good chance to be more than whatever the true power of the F6 currently is. When this thing starts moving, it'll be flying, just like the F6. I bet it will pip the F6, but not by a huge margin over the 1/4 mile. And, barra64, Rod Barret, if memory serves, was quoted as saying that this will be the most powerful mass production car in Aus, not the quickest.
__________________
Ego BF MkII F6 Typhoon - 6 Spd Auto
|
||
29-04-2010, 02:06 PM | #148 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,424
|
Yep he did..show's how good my memory is and i was there..
|
||
29-04-2010, 02:10 PM | #149 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Perth, W.A.
Posts: 422
|
lol, no worries bud. My memory is like swiss cheese. I've even forgotten my surname once when I filled out a form for a competition. Pretty embarassing crossing out the wrong surname and putting the correct one next to it.
__________________
Ego BF MkII F6 Typhoon - 6 Spd Auto
|
||
29-04-2010, 03:15 PM | #150 | |||
Solution Was Boost 4?, 6 & 8
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 23,624
|
Quote:
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
AUTOTECH TUNED EDELEBROCK CHARGED 2017 GT Mustang Plenty of RWKW |
|||