Test drove an XR6T and SS

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Ford have a habit of leaving gaping holes in their market.
So Holden admit they lose money selling what the public want, but sell plenty of them.
I can just see the pub conversation...
'My SS is cool and has all these gadgets for next to nothing'
then from the other side
'My GS costs heaps more but atleast Ford made money off me'

Honestly, who cares wether the manufacturer is getting grants and selling at a loss, atleast they're selling a product people want at a price people can afford.
Let the government bean counters worry about the rest, they'd waste your money either way.

I'm not talking about grants, I'm talking about a $200m bailout that came about because Holden gambled selling there cars at a loss and finding themselves within an inch of their life because... uhmm... they wanted to be No1.
This bailout is coming out of our (taxpayers') pockets. In other words the pub conversation would actually go like this...
'My SS is cool and has all these gadgets for next to nothing'
then from the other side
'Yeah because all the rest of us had to pay for it'

[b0son]

so one should spend $60k on a falcon instead of a commodore for no reason other than on principle?

look at the amount of negative posts there are about the falcon. now consider how much worse it would be if there was no holden to compete against. i dont have a huge problem with taxpayer dollars going to local manufacturers if it ultimately improves the quality of ALL the local players.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by b0son

so one should spend $60k on a falcon instead of a commodore for no reason other than on principle?

For me, "on principle" means buying anything other than a Holden because they've already taken some of my cash. The next time we hear them say "Commodore, No1 for 13 years in a row", we should feel proud as we actually involuntarily funded that.

Originally Posted by b0son

look at the amount of negative posts there are about the falcon. now consider how much worse it would be if there was no holden to compete against. i dont have a huge problem with taxpayer dollars going to local manufacturers if it ultimately improves the quality of ALL the local players.

You're either missing the point or twisting my words. Grants are one thing, but a bailout due to poor management is something else.

[stevz]

Oh ffs, there was no 'bailout' or free money thrown about. It was a line of credit which the government offered to Holden during the gfc as the Commonwealth Bank had tightened up its lending to the company. IIRC it was never even drawn upon, and even if it was it would have been paid back by now.
Besides, this is a completely flawed and irrelevant argument, as like the op said, his main concern is buying a car which best suits his budget and needs. He does not give a rats behind about the internal politics of the vehicle makers.

[stevz]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25760E002BC3CE

Holden spokesman Scott Whiffin said the money is “not tied to anything specific”.

“It is an unused line of credit and our intention is not to use it at all”

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by stevz

Oh ffs, there was no 'bailout' or free money thrown about. It was a line of credit which the government offered to Holden during the gfc as the Commonwealth Bank had tightened up its lending to the company. IIRC it was never even drawn upon, and even if it was it would have been paid back by now.
Besides, this is a completely flawed and irrelevant argument, as like the op said, his main concern is buying a car which best suits his budget and needs. He does not give a rats behind about the internal politics of the vehicle makers.

You're right we're way off topic, Bearman should by all means buy what he like most, it's his hard earned.

Now, getting back off topic, the whole point we're making is there is no way Ford can compete with Holden when Holden sell their cars at a loss. A loss which sent them broke and almost killed them off, if it hadn't have been for the $200m secret lifeline which of course "hasn't been used".

[EB#]

Choice and availability is an interesting comparison for the SS and XR8......

Currently for sale on Carpoint, Australia wide:
No. of VE (Series I) SS Commodore, manual: 98
No. of FG XR8 and FPV GS 302, manual: 23 (19 and 4)

If the Falcon is the preferred choice for a second hand late model aussie V8,
then the first hurdle is actually finding one !

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

I wasn't aware that the Ford was a Bugatti and needed super massive brakes...the ones in the XR6T are more than satisfactory for what they do.

My FG XR8's brakes were wofeul to say the least when coming from a decent speed, Im not talking about racetrack just even taking evasive action was always a bit of a scary experience. And brembos weren't in my budget.

And if you compare the prices of the GS which is an FPV after all, to the HSV's GTS...you will find the GS is great value for money...and actually looks like a real car...

Fair enough but remember that everything has a heirarchy here and it's a little off to compare a base model FPV to the top of the range HSV. I dont think anybody considers the GS to be on par with the GTS.

[XR6TLuvr]

Get what you want and whatever makes you feel happy. The SS and commys in general will always be more popular , IMO the xr6t is a revolutionary vehicle it has luxury , it is spacious , decent on fuel , good look and more power then you need but I see A LOT more ss's on the road it is like a thing people have entrenched in there brains (must own a v8 in there lifetime at least once) I hear that so often.

In MY opinion *its not yours so chose what you want* V8's are extremely over rated and yes I have owned a SS previously and been in many ford v8s. They are heavy on fuel , don't have enough down low torque (sure you can spend money on mods and it goes good but spend the same money on a xr6t and the T will still kill it).

Everyone to there own but V8's imo are very underwelming and in your initial post it sounded like the xr6t was TO FAST for you eg it was jumpy and it was touchy and you seemed a bit scared. Better to stick to the SS than as you won't have no dramas in regards to speed , it is very overrated.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by b2tf

My FG XR8's brakes were wofeul to say the least when coming from a decent speed, Im not talking about racetrack just even taking evasive action was always a bit of a scary experience. And brembos weren't in my budget.



Fair enough but remember that everything has a heirarchy here and it's a little off to compare a base model FPV to the top of the range HSV. I dont think anybody considers the GS to be on par with the GTS.

Well, I've never had that experience with Ford brakes, and I assume they're the same in the XR6T...so...

Righto, so compare it to base model HSV...what's the price difference...? And what kind of 'bang for your buck' do you get in comparison??

Originally Posted by stevz

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25760E002BC3CE

And as an aside...that article is two years old...

The spokesperson said that, not the big wig despite being asked...funny that, he refused to answer the question...afraid he'd give the wrong answer???

[ray38l]

Originally Posted by XR6TLuvr

In MY opinion *its not yours so chose what you want* V8's are extremely over rated and yes I have owned a SS previously and been in many ford v8s. They are heavy on fuel , don't have enough down low torque (sure you can spend money on mods and it goes good but spend the same money on a xr6t and the T will still kill it).

Everyone to there own but V8's imo are very underwelming and in your initial post it sounded like the xr6t was TO FAST for you eg it was jumpy and it was touchy and you seemed a bit scared. Better to stick to the SS than as you won't have no dramas in regards to speed , it is very overrated.

my opinion of the xr6 turbo is that they are a boring car with no torque and throttle response down low. After getting back in my v8 after the xr6t there was no comparison, the v8 has power everywhere compared the turbos higher up power.
But this is based on an older model xr6t, i haven't driven an fg one yet.

[Bearman]

Originally Posted by XR6TLuvr

Everyone to there own but V8's imo are very underwelming and in your initial post it sounded like the xr6t was TO FAST for you eg it was jumpy and it was touchy and you seemed a bit scared. Better to stick to the SS than as you won't have no dramas in regards to speed , it is very overrated.

It's not that, I'm not scared of the T. My wife however would probably find it a bit much. It's a totally different dynamic to what I'm used to. Totally different power delivery and feel. It's a seat of the pants thing. I grew up on V8's and to me, the SS feels much more like an old school muscle car in its characteristics, and I'm an old school guy (late '40's). I felt much more at home in it.

Out and out speed is not everything......

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Bearman

It's not that, I'm not scared of the T. My wife however would probably find it a bit much. It's a totally different dynamic to what I'm used to. Totally different power delivery and feel. It's a seat of the pants thing. I grew up on V8's and to me, the SS feels much more like an old school muscle car in its characteristics, and I'm an old school guy (late '40's). I felt much more at home in it.

Out and out speed is not everything......

Absolutely correct...it's not, and at the end of the day you need to buy what suits your purposes and ideals. Upon first driving the XR6T, I will openly admit, I nearly wet my pants - the acceleration scared the bejeesus out of me, particularly from a coming from a four cyclinder. Took a little while to get used to, but now that I'm 'used to it'...it's awesome!

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Well, I've never had that experience with Ford brakes, and I assume they're the same in the XR6T...so...

Bit different with a big fat V8 up the front end.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Well, I've never had that experience with Ford brakes, and I assume they're the same in the XR6T...so...

Righto, so compare it to base model HSV...what's the price difference...? And what kind of 'bang for your buck' do you get in comparison??



And as an aside...that article is two years old...

The spokesperson said that, not the big wig despite being asked...funny that, he refused to answer the question...afraid he'd give the wrong answer???

Do you drive your XR6 Turbo hard??

Ford brakes are a bit of a joke, sorry but they are.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Bearman

My next car purchase will be whatever feels right for ME, whatever the badge is.

I know what configuration I like, I know what is available in my budget and I am going to buy on what I feel suits me. Whichever I feel is right for me may not be right for you, the guy next to you or the dude standing behind you. It is entirely personal and subjective.

This ^^^

Who honestly cares whats better,handles better,more power
At the end of the day the car has to fullfill the buyers need
Wether thats power,bling,badge ,$$$ or whatever

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Do you drive your XR6 Turbo hard??

Ford brakes are a bit of a joke, sorry but they are.

Do I drive it like I stole it, no. For starters it's not 'my' car...it belongs to the other half...secondly, that's his job...

It comes down to an 'each to their own' opinion once again. I personally don't feel the need for Brembo's in it...others do, so there really is no need for you to apologise.

Personal perception is everything, my perception is it's really not required - but I came from a 1999 Nissan Pulsar to drive the XR6T, so...make of that what you will.

There seems to be a big case on having to justify to everyone else here why something is or isn't necessary in a vehicle. My choice is my choice, everyone else's choice is theirs. When it comes to people suggesting value for money I question because I'm genuinely curious as to what people consider 'good value' and what is 'acceptable' by today's standards...it also gives further credence to my own beliefs that no matter what, people will always want more and more and more. Good enough is never good enough, value is never 'enough value'...I'm probably a little easier to please than most, with the exception of the things that I myself do.

The long and the short is, there will always be shortcomings in every vehicle, Ford or otherwise. If people want to pick the crap out of Ford, good for them - I'm curious though as to why are they here on this forum if that's all they're going to do?? What happened to balanced arguments - yes, the Ford has shortcomings, but in my own personal opinion provides a great drive, feels good and IS Australian...yes, there are niggles, but none so important that I have to slam Ford for it. Even if it was so important, I'd take the appropriate avenues to get the problem rectified, not come on here and bag it out (and just for clarification, I'm not referring to the OP).

I agree completely that people should be able to have comparisons, but in the last two years the quality of the threads has gone completely downhill; to the point where threads usually devolve to someone bashing Ford for something they should have or could have done, but didn't. I'm not saying Ford are the best, but there are certainly far worse brands out there to buy.

Edit: And no doubt someone will come back with a response calling me a hypocrite because I suggested Brembo's weren't required and my above regarding necessity and justification, blah blah blah...all on their quest to be 'right' and be heard...I don't care...go your hardest.

[MO]

@Bearman,mate at the end of the day you go for what YOU want,I hope you saw that my post about the cup of tea and a bex was all tounge in cheek.

@sezzy and a couple of others stop talking sense will you

[stang65]

Originally Posted by ray38l

my opinion of the xr6 turbo is that they are a boring car with no torque and throttle response down low. After getting back in my v8 after the xr6t there was no comparison, the v8 has power everywhere compared the turbos higher up power.
But this is based on an older model xr6t, i haven't driven an fg one yet.

I guess thats your opinion, for me apart from the coyote thats supercharged and I haven`t driven, no V8 will give you the rush of a strong six with a turbo on it. It out handles the V8, better fuel economy and alot more fun to drive.

The 4.0 litre is good enough to provide the performance until the turbo kicks in even without the turbo the 4.0 litres have until recently had better torque than most V8`s.

[stang65]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Do you drive your XR6 Turbo hard??

Ford brakes are a bit of a joke, sorry but they are.

Ford Brakes are fine, it`s only when the disc`s start to warp that they become an issue. Either get them machined or get DBA`s or higher performance discs.

I upgraded to DBA 4000`s slotted and all is good. These cars are performance cars if driven hard disc will warp even my DBA`s have the beginning of a very slight shutter over 18 months of use.

[Supercharged]

Originally Posted by stang65

I guess thats your opinion, for me apart from the coyote thats supercharged and I haven`t driven, no V8 will give you the rush of a strong six with a turbo on it. It out handles the V8, better fuel economy and alot more fun to drive.

The 4.0 litre is good enough to provide the performance until the turbo kicks in even without the turbo the 4.0 litres have until recently had better torque than most V8`s.

Gee, I wouldn’t say that as I have had 2 FG turbos and now a GS and the GS is faster with better handling and way more fun to drive as a small movement on the accelerator will result in instant power however all these vehicles are Utes.

[HULK EF]

Originally Posted by ray38l

my opinion of the xr6 turbo is that they are a boring car with no torque and throttle response down low. After getting back in my v8 after the xr6t there was no comparison, the v8 has power everywhere compared the turbos higher up power.
But this is based on an older model xr6t, i haven't driven an fg one yet.

What is your v8?
if it is a ba v8 with the 4spd auto i beg to differ..

my 6 spd Zf is punchy from the lights.. not at all doughy or laggy.. will tootle around the subburbs happily in 3rd gear.. no probs with fast launches in 2nd gear!...
turbo whine/whistle... dose/blow off valve.. and the shove in the back doesnt get boring..
BF MK11 XR6 T

[RG]

It's awesome how far off topic this thread has gotten, great to see that it's been allowed to happen too

How dare the OP wants to buy and prefers the car that suits him best, how could anyone buy anything but a Ford and dare to post on AFF.

Instead of people worrying about ridiculous things like bailouts etc, maybe start worrying about what your favourite marque is doing to themselves. For crying out loud my bloody Peugeot is more reliable and has better build quality than any Ford I have ever owned, when Ford gets outdone by the bloody French you know there are issues.

Half of this thread needs to be deleted and added to a new, "schoolyard BS" thread.

Bearman, good on you for bucking the trend and actually going for what YOU prefer and saying so. If I were after something in that class it'd be the Holden too, as mentioned by someone earlier a Voodoo manual wagon would be quite welcome in my driveway.

[NC1183]

Bearman, i can totally see you point about the XR6T verses the SS. The SS is something that will be easy enough for your partner to drive whilst having that extra power you want, without the light-switch like power delivery of the XR6T.


I think this thread needs to be closed, before it gets anymore off topic or personal attacks start.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Both have their pros and cons.

I don't like being violently shoved back into my seat when the turbo spools... I like the smooth power delivery of the v8. Each to their own I guess.

Edit: Besides that, I like the exhaust note better, silly I know, but there's something about an angry V8 at full noise that excites the pants region

[351@GT]

irrespective of how good the turbo is, theres just something about having a V8, and as bearman said the budget doesnt stretch to a GS, so SS it is.
- same as speed isnt everything, bit of aural drama doesnt go astray.

[Deco28]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

You're right we're way off topic, Bearman should by all means buy what he like most, it's his hard earned.

Now, getting back off topic, the whole point we're making is there is no way Ford can compete with Holden when Holden sell their cars at a loss. A loss which sent them broke and almost killed them off, if it hadn't have been for the $200m secret lifeline which of course "hasn't been used".

So you're trying to tell me, that with FoA manufacturing less vehicles in Australia, selling their cars at cheaper prices that they aren't taking as much of a hit on the vehicles as Holden? Please.

I'd say looking at the latest results, both vehicles are selling with some profit.

[Sioso]

I had a BF Typhoon which I traded for a SSV Ute which I then traded for an FG XR6T which I have since traded for a Golf GTI.

All very different animals with pros and cons depending on what you fancy.
Variety is the spice of life.

[grumpyoldb]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

As I said earlier, Holden will sell at a loss, so, no, it doesn't really count for much when they'll start looking for another bailout.

Edit. I am wrong; what does Government Motors Holden care if it's not their money, so, yes, it's a good ploy after all.

It really amazes me that seemingly intelligent people can post utter crap like this and still expect others to take them seriously.
Last year Holden made $112.4m profit, and they sure as hell didn't do it by selling at a loss. Just in case your basic maths needs a bit of a touch-up - if you are selling items at a loss, the more you sell of them, the bigger the loss you make....
But - I digress - A few years ago I had decided to buy a XR6T (as my then current Falcon was getting tired) and went to my local Ford dealer to drive one first. I had read all the glowing reports, but wanted to drive one first.
"No, sorry, none available. Drive the ute instead... drive the ute"
"No - I want to drive a sedan. Could I make an appointment? "
" Yes - tomorrow at 3.00"
I duly returned next day to drive the 6T but still none available......"Drive the ute, drive the ute...." but after some serious ginning around, was talked into driving the XR8/GT (or whatever it was called)
....Meh...didn't really ring my bell, so I went to another Ford dealer and (more ginning around) managed to score a drive of a low-km 6T, and again, it just didn't really ring my bell. It gave me the impression of a quickish taxi...
Seriously disappointed, I wandered into the Holden dealer to try an SS and was immediately impressed with their totally professional attitude, and after driving an HSV Senator demo that grabbed me by the knackers as I walked in, didn't even bother with the SS - I had to have it! And in fact I still have it and think it is probably the best...no, make that most enjoyable, of the many, many cars I've ever had. Quick, comfortable, discreet, most of the bells and whistles, cheap to run and totally reliable.
Sadly, I think Ford's current position in the market is all their own doing, or not-doing.
I just hope they survive, because without them the Aust market will be seriously short of competition, and we, the consumers will suffer.

[XtRmn8]

Why is there so much negativity towards the OPs choice of car?

I am curies to know how many of you have driven both the current VE and FG back to back like the OP has?