Commodore to be built overseas after 2014

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Haven't seen the AWD Commodores yet? Put a VZ wagon on an AWD platform. (I think they were called cross 6 or 8) So I think you're a little out of date with this comment. (No offense intended towards you either .)

Education.
It was in the VY era they made AWDs and were discontinued with the VZ's.
They werent a "platform", it was a driveline.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Must be why the are planning to introduce a new "screaming chicken", a modern day replacement for the 80's Mustang SVO turbo 2.3.

Ive heard they are going to fit an ecoboost 4. If fuel economy is costing them sales this would be a way to offer an improvement, just like Ford is doing with ecoboost Falcon.

Taurus sales aren't real high either, but Fusion sells over 17,000 a month and F series sells a whopping 52,000 a month. More than FoA would probably build in a year.

Four points on Mustang sales:
1) Mustang is a barometer for the economy and says the market is still quite flat

2) Camaro out sold mustang again but not by much, so is affecting both.
so Ford improving market share elsewhere says they are clawing back from imports.

3) Mustang's retro styling is done, they need to move on with more modern adaptations of Mustang styling traits.

4)Insurance,
Young drivers buying their first new car (mom & Dad) cannot get reasonable insurance with 300 hp V6 and 400 hp V8 is out of the question.
The EB 20 I-4 would be a way of connecting a new generation of buyers with a traditional sports coupe,
enabling affordable insurance and getting good gas mileage and enough performance is key to that.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Four points on Mustang sales:
1) Mustang is a barometer for the economy and says the market is still quite flat

2) Camaro out sold mustang again but not by much, so is affecting both.
so Ford improving market share elsewhere says they are clawing back from imports.

3) Mustang's retro styling is done, they need to move on with more modern adaptations of Mustang styling traits.

4)Insurance,
Young drivers buying their first new car (mom & Dad) cannot get reasonable insurance with 300 hp V6 and 400 hp V8 is out of the question.
The EB 20 I-4 would be a way of connecting a new generation of buyers with a traditional sports coupe,
enabling affordable insurance and getting good gas mileage and enough performance is key to that.

The Mustang is available as a base model V6 for only $23,100...who wouldn't want one of them instead of a nice little Corolla or Camry?

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The Mustang is available as a base model V6 for only $23,100...who wouldn't want one of them instead of a nice little Corolla or Camry?

Shame the Corolla isnt $23000...........
Invoice price is 16-17k.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The Mustang is available as a base model V6 for only $23,100...who wouldn't want one of them instead of a nice little Corolla or Camry?

More than half of all sales go to the +$30K V8 GT Mustang.
I feel that some in the US are expecting a V6 Mustang for $19K and the V8 to start around $23K...


Corolla starts at $16K and Camry around $19K, you can get a V6 Camry for around $23 K.

[Warface]

This is bad! all the jobs in Australia are always going overseas, feel sorry for the familys involved.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Warface

This is bad! all the jobs in Australia are always going overseas, feel sorry for the familys involved.

Why would Holden consider closing down operations after adding the Cruze that's selling like gang busters even without hatch?
No, this is paper talk as a lot of engineering staff are picked up on short term contract work, don't believe everything you hear.
I'd expect that cruze sales will continue to rise with introduction of hatch, more govco sales and possibly stationwagon..

IMO, Ford missed the boat big time with Focus, their business plan was flawed by the presumption that 65% of Focus
production was going to be low priced base models, something LV launch proved to be completely eroneous, that product
mix is now heavily in favor of mid and high series models, something Holden picked perfectly with near mid sized Cruze.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by davway

Education.
It was in the VY era they made AWDs and were discontinued with the VZ's.
They werent a "platform", it was a driveline.

Bit more than the driveline changed. The concept was to have it as a continuing SUV, but it didn't sell to well, hence the canning.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Bit more than the driveline changed. The concept was to have it as a continuing SUV, but it didn't sell to well, hence the canning.

I remember the story about how FoA had an Adventurer evaluation vehicle and how they
received a $4,000 cash back cheque from Holden that Polites had framed in his office.

[Kryton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AeSTe4Nmh0

Starts at about 12 minutes - nothing more than a driveline change and a body kit.
Hardly an SUV of any sorts and was never intended to be.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by davway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AeSTe4Nmh0

Starts at about 12 minutes - nothing more than a driveline change and a body kit.
Hardly an SUV of any sorts and was never intended to be.

The link don't work for me.

However, because it's on youtube, it's gotta be right. So the full chassis I've seen under them is a figament of my imagination, so I'll leave it there.

[stang65]

Link works fine for me ..... give it another try. After all it is a Holden promo video.

[fordfreak22]

We will see what the holden loving herald sun has to say.

[svo supporter]

Question begs. Why would all these news papers etc etc, have such a love affair with Holdens, therefore singing the praises about them?

One would assume, if Ford were in the same league, these magazines would be doing the same. Right?

Love to hear comments and sorry for the side track

[mickbundy]

May as well make them overseas all the Bogans here are to ashamed to leave the Holden (AUSSIE) badge on them. They go the bow tie for Chevrolet

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Question begs. Why would all these news papers etc etc, have such a love affair with Holdens, therefore singing the praises about them?

One would assume, if Ford were in the same league, these magazines would be doing the same. Right?

Love to hear comments and sorry for the side track

Because Holden PR knows how to work the media:
1) Holden gets a sniff that Ford is planning something and dives in front to be first.

2) Holden feeds the media with guarantees that RWd cars will be here until 2018
but then recants and says post 2014 hasn't been decided.

3) most think that the car maker who makes the most cars must surely be
way more successful than the one who only builds what's needed.

4) A car maker who constantly challenges its business plans against corporate
vehicles is obviously looking to cull it's most popular car..

[z80]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Bit more than the driveline changed. The concept was to have it as a continuing SUV, but it didn't sell to well, hence the canning.

So far two car manufacturers who dipped into AWD manufacture in Australia have fallen flat on their faces....GM and Mitsubishi.

Clearly the aussie market doesn't want locally made AWD passenger cars.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by z80

So far two car manufacturers who dipped into AWD manufacture in Australia have fallen flat on their faces....GM and Mitsubishi.

Clearly the aussie market doesn't want locally made AWD passenger cars.

Probably hard to market, especially when other have been doing it so well for so long, like Subaru...it's hard to compete.

[Luke Plaizier]

Well, AWD needs a reason to exist. In cold climates it's for Winter traction. In dry climates it's for HP traction. For the WRC set it's for gravel traction. And for softroaders it's for the beach - or mostly for driving once every few years onto the grass for a picnic (thanks internal cynic).

Focus ST/RS and Mazda SP are trying desparately hard to get away with staying FWD, but how much longer can they do so if power continues to increase?

With 270kW in the Adventra AWD is not a big need. And the success of the RWD Territory and FWD Kluger is showing that AWD is not always a prime factor in SUV sales either when the SUV is employed as just a people mover.

But with 335kW now stressing RWD, rumours of GTHO on the horizon, and rumours that even HSV might go down the Supercharged path, right now an unleashed Miami is a pretty damn good reason for AWD to exist. And given the adoption of driveshaft-through-sump in Territory and FWD capable front uprights in FG and FGII, AWD might not be a far stretch. Especially given the comment that 'AWD' was more likely than 'RWD' from Ford top brass awhile back...

It's a pity Holden lost all their variants when they dropped the Opel Omega platform and started afresh with the VE. Could they have just evolved the Omega and kept their options open? Or was the promise of exports and global RWD development and integration too lucrative a chance to miss? A lesson I don't doubt Ford have watched.

The only real development I've seen in this story is the announcement from Kim Carr that 'he's not giving up on the local car industry' and that lots more money is still available from the 'new car plan for a greener future' fund. Link

Interestingly, Drive have taken an unusual negative slant on this, calling the 'Cruze' an imported car here to save Australian cars, and saying that the inability to resurrect the GCIF means that industry should not expect more funding - which to me is almost the opposite of what Carr actually said. Link. Drive just seem increasingly sensationalist and headline driven and devoid of serious journalistic quality these days.

The story of Holden keeping the plant busy sounds good. But I imagine the cost to build a Cruze wouldn't be that much less than a Commodore (admittedly there'd be much less R&D to amortise since that would be done overseas), and yet there's $15k difference in the MRP of each. I know which one I'd rather be selling more of .....


Lukeyson

[burnz]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Probably hard to market, especially when other have been doing it so well for so long, like Subaru...it's hard to compete.

did they market?
who remembers the coupe 4 advert?
the ad for the crewcab 4?
cross/8 ad?

no,one will remeber these ads, now you all are searching youtube...

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

The link don't work for me.

However, because it's on youtube, it's gotta be right. So the full chassis I've seen under them is a figament of my imagination, so I'll leave it there.

The Adventra (wagon) does not have a full chassis, it is unitary body construction. The Cross8 and Cross6 1 tonner had a hybrid setup of half chassis and half unitary (like the Falcon ute) which is most likely the vehicle you saw.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by z80

So far two car manufacturers who dipped into AWD manufacture in Australia have fallen flat on their faces....GM and Mitsubishi.

Clearly the aussie market doesn't want locally made AWD passenger cars.

AWD terri seems to have done alright.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by vztrt

AWD terri seems to have done alright.

Its a soft roader though...


When it comes to Sedans, the AWD adds too much weight and kills encononmy for little gain.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Its a soft roader though...


When it comes to Sedans, the AWD adds too much weight and kills encononmy for little gain.

The statement was broad and not limited to sedans.

Ford covered the market with the terri and the AWD has done well.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by z80

So far two car manufacturers who dipped into AWD manufacture in Australia have fallen flat on their faces....GM and Mitsubishi.

Clearly the aussie market doesn't want locally made AWD passenger cars.

I wouldn't go that far mate. Plenty of manufacturers dabble with AWD. Ford (Territory), Toyota (Kluger) and Subaru for starters. I'm sure there are others out there.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The Adventra (wagon) does not have a full chassis, it is unitary body construction. The Cross8 and Cross6 1 tonner had a hybrid setup of half chassis and half unitary (like the Falcon ute) which is most likely the vehicle you saw.

I reckon I mentioned something about Cross 8 and 6, but some member decided to post a youtube link up to do with the adventurer, therefore I mustn't have been right.

Now we'll see if that member responds.

[z80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

AWD terri seems to have done alright.

I did say passenger cars......

Territory is an SUV, as is Kluger, Pajero etc.

My point is that, I am of the opinion, that in spite of lots of people at AFF hoping like hell...you will never see an AWD falcon.

Simply because others have tried and failed, monetary loss precedents have been set and there is no way that Ford would throw money at it.

[Falc'man]

I would like to chuck my two lira in re AWDs and what not.

Worst case scenario would be if Falcon dies.

This means we get Taurus, and Taurus is FWD/AWD.

Currently, the SHO is heavy, but only because it needed a fair bit of meat added to it to it's original design that wasn't meant to cope with the very powerful Ecoboost motor.

The future redesign of Taurus will most likely address this weight issue so I would hazard a guess and say it'll be a lot lighter and probably more powerful, too.

So, we may well end up with an AWD one day (if Falcon doesn't get the green light), and they may call it a Falcon.

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

I reckon I mentioned something about Cross 8 and 6, but some member decided to post a youtube link up to do with the adventurer, therefore I mustn't have been right.

Now we'll see if that member responds.

Perhaps you should actually read what you have written - seems you dont even know what you say yourself.

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Haven't seen the AWD Commodores yet? Put a VZ wagon on an AWD platform. (I think they were called cross 6 or 8) So I think you're a little out of date with this comment. (No offense intended towards you either .)

The WAGON is the Adventra.
The Cross 6 and 8 are the UTES.
NONE of them are SUV's in any sense, shape or form.

Oh, and because its on YouTube - it IS correct - it came from HOLDEN themselves, who know a crap load more about it than you obviously do.

[krypto71]

I'm in the states at present, driving a Taurus SEL. I've not driven the current FG 6cyl, so can't compare to our 6, but certainly is a solid enough drive for me as a family car. I'd still consider it if it arrived in Aus.