Prelim March 2013 sales figures

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ford and Holden should thank their lucky stars they sell as many as they do, they have utterly failed in selling the 'large car'.

You have cars like SUVs selling on their room and outdoors image, Utes selling on their towing ability, small cars selling on their economy, sports cars selling on their handling.

Large cars have all the great attributes of the most popular classes of cars, they are the perfect all-rounder. A car purchase is one of the biggest purchases a person makes - why buy a car which can only do one thing well when instead you could buy a Falcon which does everything well.

A bozo at work is having a kid and is wanting to trade in his VE on a Forester for a 'bigger car'. A VE is about as roomy as a Landcruiser yet he doesn't associate his Aussie large car as something a family would own... He owns the bloody thing but no one has ever sold the idea to him of a Commodore as a car you own when you have a kid.

A girl who does cross country horse racing in my team thought her parents BA Falcon was not suitable to tow a small horse float, she thought she needed to buy a gutless 2wd 80s Hilux... A Falcon would run rings around it towing the 1100kg.

My neighbours bought a Pajero because they do a lot of highway work.... Highway work in a Pajero? A Falcon or Commodre would have been multiple times better, but they just don't see a Falcon or Commodore as a car for the open road....

The buying public are completely lost on the attributes of large cars, the last lot of marketing which really sold the large car concept was back in the early 90s, almost two decades ago. People need to have the strengths of the large car shoved in their face, at the moment Ford and Holden give you no reason to buy a Falcon or Commodore.

I actually remember the idea of a Falcon was the idea of the open road, tight fast curves through a valley, visiting the family farm down a long dirt road, towing the boat with the kids to the lake. Ford and Holden need to bring back the romance of the large Aussie car, they actually need to give us a reason to buy one.

I have a link to an ad, i can already feel the eyes roll, but look beyond the cheesyness, the incredibly dated fashion and jingle and actually see what they are selling: good times with the people you care about, the open road, holidays, excellent handling, towing, overtaking power, ruggedness.... Notice how much of the ad is filmed in bushland, they are selling the idea of getting away from it all. When you buy a Falcon you buy a bit of Australia.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O3JywSRne5Y

your so right about the large car thing.
A friend bought a new Hyundai i30..but was really wanting a G6 but ended up with the i30. It was for his wife and the new baby. THE PRAM WONT FIT IN THE NEW CAR ......but he could get it a month earlier so Hyundai it was

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

your so right about the large car thing.
A friend bought a new Hyundai i30..but was really wanting a G6 but ended up with the i30. It was for his wife and the new baby. THE PRAM WONT FIT IN THE NEW CAR ......but he could get it a month earlier so Hyundai it was

Right, and I'm sure the fact that the i30 is half the price had nothing to do with his decision.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I have a link to an ad, i can already feel the eyes roll, but look beyond the cheesyness, the incredibly dated fashion and jingle and actually see what they are selling: good times with the people you care about, the open road, holidays, excellent handling, towing, overtaking power, ruggedness.... Notice how much of the ad is filmed in bushland, they are selling the idea of getting away from it all. When you buy a Falcon you buy a bit of Australia.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O3JywSRne5Y

But it's Ford Motor Company, not Falcon Motor Company. This ad was and always will be in my eyes the quintessential Ford ad that they really need to remake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO7wDFGQB6w

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by eb2fairmont

I think its simple really. What do you get for your dollar?

You get a lot for 40K these days, but this will only get you a basic commodore /falcon. That's the crux of the matter, the value proposition is lacking.

Go back 10 years, the value proposition favoured the locals due to exchange rate and wages. In between now and then have the commodore and falcon come as far as everything else? In short no.

VF and FH will address this, but they will be only niche products. IN much the same way a territory. Biased towards high spec models.

VF and FH can address the equipment/features issues against the imports, but they won't address the cost issue and that is what will hurt their sales volume. Both brands are on average 10 to 15K RRP over what the market will pay now. For FPV branded Falcons the situation is worse.

VF will also have to deal with the media harping on about US exports being cheaper and with a better engine. That can't help things. If Ford and the updated Falcon on the other hand don't match VF feature for feature and they have similar RRP, then the media will slam Ford on that.

Both cars now need to be extremely good value to arrest sales, much less grow them any. I'm not saying cheaper prices is good for either brand, just thats the way the market is now.

[rdmr]

So Ford sold 2243 locally made cars in March. Ford only builds roughly 2960 locally made cars per month anyway ( @148 a day in braodies. ).
So it had a shortfall of some 720 cars.
April sees Broadies close for a week for easter which will see some 740 cars out of the production total.
So in April Ford only need to sell some 2200 locally made cars to be square with their production numbers. Anything more is a bonus.
The sky isn't falling, Falcon ISN'T dead etc.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by rdmr

So Ford sold 2243 locally made cars in March. Ford only builds roughly 2960 locally made cars per month anyway ( @148 a day in braodies. ).
So it had a shortfall of some 720 cars.
April sees Broadies close for a week for easter which will see some 740 cars out of the production total.
So in April Ford only need to sell some 2200 locally made cars to be square with their production numbers. Anything more is a bonus.
The sky isn't falling, Falcon ISN'T dead etc.

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks that everything is rosy at Ford Aus is completely delusional. There is NO WAY that they could justify investment in a new model based on those figures. They need volume, as an increase in volume = reduction in cost per unit.
When they have a plant with a capacity of 100,000 pa and they are only putting out 30,000 vehicles pa, they are going to have a hard time justifying its existence to head office.
Its not rocket science.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Brazen

TOP SELLING CARS IN MARCH 2013
Mazda3 3785
Toyota Corolla 3510
Toyota HiLux 3125
Hyundai i30 2295
Nissan Navara 2440
Mitsubishi Triton 1995
Toyota Camry 1915
Ford Ranger 1685
Nissan Pulsar 1630
Holden Commodore 1605
*Preliminary sales figures, rounded. Official data released later this week.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busine...-1226611137074

Just noticed Cruze is missing from this list, it should be in 6th place with 2335 sales.
http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...404-2h8i7.html

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by stevz

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks that everything is rosy at Ford Aus is completely delusional. There is NO WAY that they could justify investment in a new model based on those figures. They need volume, as an increase in volume = reduction in cost per unit.
When they have a plant with a capacity of 100,000 pa and they are only putting out 30,000 vehicles pa, they are going to have a hard time justifying its existence to head office.
Its not rocket science.

The plant may have an ultimate capacity of 100,000 but the current production capacity
and employee count now puts that combined production at less than 40,000 vehicles.

The successive down balances to 148 vehicles a day will be the last down balance ,
anything from here on can be handled by down days..

And Holden Carnot justify an all new Commodore either, that's why VF is a heavily reworked VE

[csv8]

How about Ford Australia..adapt Ford America's ad..."Built for the Road Ahead" hints at designed for Aussie roads...especially the Bruce goat track in QLD....

[stevz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The plant may have an ultimate capacity of 100,000 but the current production capacity
and employee count now puts that combined production at less than 40,000 vehicles.

The successive down balances to 148 vehicles a day will be the last down balance ,
anything from here on can be handled by down days..

And Holden Carnot justify an all new Commodore either, that's why VF is a heavily reworked VE

VF was always meant to be a reworked VE, the only difference is that it has been delayed somewhat.
Mike Devereux has also publicly stated that Commodore will continue post 2017, probably as a global vehicle, but they still seem to have a business case for it.

[csv8]

To get buyers in..the G6E needs to be priced around $39,990 drive away on a value for money basis..but that won't happen..lots of sheet metal and space don't count when content is sparse, compared to other cars...If the XT was $29,990, G6 was $35,990 driveaway. Might put some interest in Falcon..will Holden have aggressive pricing for the VF ??

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by stevz

VF was always meant to be a reworked VE, the only difference is that it has been delayed somewhat.
Mike Devereux has also publicly stated that Commodore will continue post 2017, probably as a global vehicle, but they still seem to have a business case for it.

The point being that Falcon sales do not support a all new vehicle, neither does Commodore's sales...
Hence continuance of Zeta on a refresh that was delayed from 2011.....oops, I shoudna said that..

And the tail looks similar to that of the cancelled Zeta Impala....

[jpd80]

Light Car Segment Winners :

Toyota Yaris (1,541 – 12.9%)
Mazda2 (1,476 – 12.4%)
Hyundai i20 (1,183 – 9.9%)

Small Car Segment Winners:

Mazda3 (3,786 – 17.4%)
Toyota Corolla (3,512 – 16.1%)
Hyundai i30 (2,595 – 11.9%)

Medium Car Segment Winners:

Toyota Camry (1,916 – 45.9%)
Mercedes-Benz C-Class (879 – 43.4% of medium car segment over 60k)
BMW 3 Series (542 – 26.8% of medium car segment over 60k)

Large Car Segment Winners:

Holden Commodore (1,606 – 47%)
Ford Falcon (831 – 24.3%)
Toyota Aurion (498 – 14.6%)

Upper Large Car Segment Winners:

Chrysler 300 (200 – 73.8% of upper large under 100k)
Holden Caprice (71 – 26.2% of upper large under 100k)
Mercedes-Benz S-Class (11 – 21.2% of upper large over 100k)

People Mover Segment Winners:

Kia Carnival (256 – 40.6%)
Hyundai iMax (100 – 15.9%)
Honda Odyssey (82 – 13%)

Sports Segment Winners:

Toyota 86 (786 – 36.8%)
Mercedes-Benz C-Class Coupe (369 – 17.4%)
Hyundai Veloster (340 – 15.9%)

Supercars (200k+) Segment Winners:

BMW 6 Series (22 – 23.9%)
Mercedes-Benz SL-Class (17 – 18.5%)
Porsche 911 (14 – 15.2%)

SUV Small Segment Winners:

Subaru XV (1567 – 22.3%)
Hyundai ix35 (1,529 – 21.7%)
Nissan Dualis (1,319 – 18.7%)

SUV Medium Segment Winners:

Mazda CX-5 (1,830 – 20.2%)
Toyota RAV4 (1,528 – 16.8%)
Honda CR-V (1,336 – 14.9%)

SUV Large Segment Winners:

Toyota Prado (1,343 – 15.1%)
Toyota Kluger (1,154 – 13%)
Holden Captiva 7 (1082 – 12.2%)

SUV Upper Large Segment Winners:

Toyota Landcruiser Wagon (990 -78.4%)
Nissan Patrol Wagon (273 – 21.6%)

Pickup 4×2 Segment Winners

Toyota Hilux 4×2 (729 – 20.5%)
Holden Utility 4×2 (433 – 12.2%)
Mazda BT-50 4×2 (396 – 11.2%)

Pickup 4×4 Segment Winners

Toyota Hilux 4×4 (2,398 – 20.9%)
Nissan Navara / Ford Range 4×4 (2,125 – 18.6%)
Mitsubishi Triton (1,677 – 14.6%)

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by csv8

To get buyers in..the G6E needs to be priced around $39,990 drive away on a value for money basis..but that won't happen..lots of sheet metal and space don't count when content is sparse, compared to other cars...If the XT was $29,990, G6 was $35,990 driveaway. Might put some interest in Falcon..will Holden have aggressive pricing for the VF ??

The Cruze update shows that Holden can get pretty aggresive with their pricing, this may be a prelude to what Commodore has.

[Ducati888]

Originally Posted by MrZ

The difference is that Ford Australia actually designed the Falcon so they have to recoup all of the development costs. Mitsubishi just built overseas-designed models, so they had no costs to recoup. They could survive at much lower volumes than Ford.

No, 380 was designed here, and was and Australia only model. The Magna was an adaptation of the global Diamonte. MMA also exported.

I believe that the media's constant naysaying towards MMA over 2 or three years had a significant impact on it closing local production, and on the success of it's locally made cars. Unfortunately, as good as it was, the 380 was launched at a time when the large car decline really kicked in so it was doomed anyway and made it that much easier for the motoring media to sink the boot in, but it should have been AWD in every model, and should have been classes as 'medium' to target Camry & Subaru, not Falcon & Commodore.

The media is now targetting Ford. When the last man is standing - who will it be? GM or Toyota?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

No, 380 was designed here, and was and Australia only model. The Magna was an adaptation of the global Diamonte. MMA also exported.

I believe that the media's constant naysaying towards MMA over 2 or three years had a significant impact on it closing local production, and on the success of it's locally made cars. Unfortunately, as good as it was, the 380 was launched at a time when the large car decline really kicked in so it was doomed anyway and made it that much easier for the motoring media to sink the boot in, but it should have been AWD in every model, and should have been classes as 'medium' to target Camry & Subaru, not Falcon & Commodore.

The media is now targetting Ford. When the last man is standing - who will it be? GM or Toyota?

The 380 was an Australianised Galant - which is still built today in the US. The 380 had no issues, it lacked a 4 cylinder and had no wagon (Which meant that it lost up to 30% of sales overnight).

2013 Galant

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The 380 was an Australianised Galant - which is still built today in the US. The 380 had no issues, it lacked a 4 cylinder and had no wagon (Which meant that it lost up to 30% of sales overnight).

2013 Galant
image

Wow, I can't believe that people still think the 380 was a locally designed model. rofl. As you can see from that photo, the 380 was a US Galant (which went on sale in 2003), with a different front grill. I estimate that only a couple of million dollars was spent on differentiating the exterior design from the US model.

Also, it is no longer built - production ended in August 2012, after nearly a 9 year run.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by MrZ

Wow, I can't believe that people still think the 380 was a locally designed model. rofl. As you can see from that photo, the 380 was a US Galant (which went on sale in 2003), with a different front grill. I estimate that only a couple of million dollars was spent on differentiating the exterior design from the US model.

Also, it is no longer built - production ended in August 2012, after nearly a 9 year run.

There was some pretty extensive changes over the US one though, Mitsubishi Australia used thicker gauge sheetmetal and the whole rear sub-structure was redesigned and strengthened so it could tow caravans.

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by Brazen

There was some pretty extensive changes over the US one though, Mitsubishi Australia used thicker gauge sheetmetal and the whole rear sub-structure was redesigned and strengthened so it could tow caravans.

A waste of money, as if anyone is going to care about that. They were sold primarily to fleets anyway, who don't tow.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by MrZ

A waste of money, as if anyone is going to care about that. They were sold primarily to fleets anyway, who don't tow.

same could be said about Falcon and Commodore.
In the end it isn't a waste of money when you go to lengths to improve a product, all companies should be striving to do that.
In the end the changes made to the 380 made it a decent car that deserved to sell better.

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by irish2

Oh great, even more high riding, and slow tubs on the road.

don't forget they're not really that safe either

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The 380 was an Australianised Galant - which is still built today in the US. The 380 had no issues, it lacked a 4 cylinder and had no wagon (Which meant that it lost up to 30% of sales overnight).

2013 Galant
image

while I agree with you about design and lack of wagon option. the 4 cylinder was axed in the 1999 as people that brought magnas (the car the 380 replaced) preferred the 3.5L V6. what killed the magna was when the TL came out. It was crittised because of its looks. just the same as the AU falcon was and like the AU falcon the last model magnas where good cars. the 380 was a good car as well but suffered the same fate as no one really wanted it

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by wildrider

while I agree with you about design and lack of wagon option. the 4 cylinder was axed in the 1999 as people that brought magnas (the car the 380 replaced) preferred the 3.5L V6. what killed the magna was when the TL came out. It was crittised because of its looks. just the same as the AU falcon was and like the AU falcon the last model magnas where good cars. the 380 was a good car as well but suffered the same fate as no one really wanted it

I think a 4 cylinder would of helped, if you look at Camry and Aurion last month they sold almost 2000 4 cylinder Camrys to almost 500 Aurions. But ultimately they would have been better off making and developing a crossover off the Galant/380 platform using the Pajero's diesel and 3.8l petrol and exported it.... Something like a Mitsubishi Territory.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I think a 4 cylinder would of helped, if you look at Camry and Aurion last month they sold almost 2000 4 cylinder Camrys to almost 500 Aurions. But ultimately they would have been better off making and developing a crossover off the Galant/380 platform using the Pajero's diesel and 3.8l petrol and exported it.... Something like a Mitsubishi Territory.

it could of helped?? the 4 cylinder camry has always been the main selling camry in Australia. the older 4 cylinder magna wasn't the best 4 cylinder going where as the camry 4 cylinder is rather reliable. you don't see too many old camrys blowing blue smoke out the exhaust compared to old magnas. I think the fact 4 cylinder camry has a reputation for being reliable helps it sell too and also there are a lot of people that think 4 cylinder means cheap fuel. not always the case. I have seen some four cylinders use just as much if not more then 6 cylinders cars. just a shame that we probably wont have a car industry here in ten years time.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Not too bad for the local Ford product considering possible continued hold up of ecoLpi delivery. Will try and confirm.

Lpi numbers seems to be coming out in proper numbers (from what I'm seeing). The problem is the holdup in getting them out to be delivered. It seems they finally are starting to get stock in vic so it should filter through to the other states.

But April will only see 3 weeks of production. So its gonna be interesting.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Ducati888

No, 380 was designed here, and was and Australia only model. The Magna was an adaptation of the global Diamonte. MMA also exported.

I believe that the media's constant naysaying towards MMA over 2 or three years had a significant impact on it closing local production, and on the success of it's locally made cars. Unfortunately, as good as it was, the 380 was launched at a time when the large car decline really kicked in so it was doomed anyway and made it that much easier for the motoring media to sink the boot in, but it should have been AWD in every model, and should have been classes as 'medium' to target Camry & Subaru, not Falcon & Commodore.

The media is now targetting Ford. When the last man is standing - who will it be? GM or Toyota?

The 380 was an ok car, but not the big leap Mitsu needed, after feeding us updated Magna's for years. It was also quite cheap looking for its time and really not that special. The pricing (early on) didn't help. I remember the Falcon looked good value next to it, at the 380's launch.

I think Mitsu thought the 380 would sell by the squillion as anyone desperate to buy something other then another Magna, would flock to it. I also think they thought the new design would allow them to push up margins and still retain decent volume. The people they were looking for, mostly didn't come along and buy.

I'm guessing after the initial sales rush Holden will have a similar problem with VF. VF with all the new kit should be a good car, but I expect its real price (not RRP) will settle to basically VE levels within 18 months, particularly after all the early adopters (Holden faithful) have got their new car. Then its back to sales and fleet again. Ditto Falcon update too, although the drop will be much faster, as it has less potential customers left.

The market has moved on for various reasons (not just because of SUV's) and the sales will now always be a struggle, like they were for the 380. The media might make things worse, but the problem was already there. The media just end up hurrying up the final chapter, but they really never change the story.

[P6LTD351]

If people think that the new VF is going to bring Commodore sales back up, they're dreaming. There might be a few hundred sales a month more than now, but in no way back up to the 3500 - 4000 mark. Those days are over.

[flooded one]

I reckon once the holden faithful have brought a new VF in first few months it will slow down unfortunately. people just don't want a big sedan anymore

[jpd80]

Have to agree, the VF will no doubt give Commodore sales a lift in the honeymoon period but
like FG showed, the market for large cars is only as deep as the people who really want one...

Kudos to Holden for having the guts to try but i think that they are heading the same way as Ford's operation.....

[Brazen]

What Holden is doing is necessary for a vehicle approaching 7 years old. But I agree sales will drop unless they reinvigorate the segment by adding a diesel to the range or they really need to cut prices.

Cars like the base Commodore and Falcon are utterly overpriced in the market. You can pick up a brand new Mazda CX5 2.5 AWD for 34 grand, it is very hard to argue buying a Falcon XT or Omega over that.

I don't think Holden though are that focused on high volume here, if they want to build volume they can dump cheap Caprices and Chevy SS in the US which protects resale back here. They also have Cruze for volume.

I think they will focus on moving Zeta upmarket with high content. Even now they have already basically sold out of current SS Commodore and Calais before the VF comes out and they are 7 year old designs. They can continue taretting higher margin models and know that if volume becomes a concern they can churn out some more cheapies cop cars for the US market.