FPV's response to VE - Page 5

majin_andrew · 18-07-2006, 09:31 PM

I hope the Holden people don't leave because I think its healthy to have a few Holden people on the forum.

On the topic of Aussie engines, no one can dispute how Australian the 4L I6 is. Not only that but its a brilliant engine as well.

Full Spectrum · 18-07-2006, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

What I have said is that Ford have done very well over the years to bridge the gap to the point where VE isn't bringing a hell of a lot to the party that is a huge step from where Falcon is now. Now according to my email you didn't want to turn this into Holden V Ford thing, which is fair enough by me as most around here know I do give Ford a hard time and I give credit where it is due to Holden. Did you lose your 20cents?

Some of the points you seem to not understand. Ford introduced two dash designs in the AU. It has nothing to do with two tone interiors. Have you not read Holden speak on interior themes yet? One upmarket for the luxury cars and one for the basic cars. Holden have found an innovative way to provide multiple theme, cost effectively.

The Falcon found its way to Europe in the form of a XR6T and then later to the USA. While it was in Europe several of the car magazines compared and reviewed the car. One publication of whom the name escapes me at the moment, tests cars in a particular manner. When it came to suspensions the XR6 surpassed either a 5 or 3 series BMW which they regarded as the benchmark at the time. 65 to 67 rings a bell but don't ask me to explain what those numbers mean as its a few years ago now. While Holden and their supporters make claims the Falcon has been around long enough to have actually backed them up and on technical merit does rather well. Out of interests the areas it didn't do well in were quality of plastics and fitment.

None of this is to be taken as derogatory against the new comer as it will and should be good, very good, but to actually get a step above the competition is not going to be easy from this point on. To do so will require massive investment that this market will have a hard time justifying. Design is going to be critical and on this front the VE is presenting confused DNA.

The issue I was talking about has been Ford gradual positioning of the CURRENT Falcon. We, I in particular, at times have been very critical of where Ford have been with product development and the rate at which upgrades or content are improved. Its time to reflect and think about in real terms how a continuous improvement has truly bridged the gap to what could have been a very dominate position for the long time market leader. It still might end up being that way but I suspect Ford might just be breathing a bit easier right now. The point being made is not so much how long either side has taken; it is that Holden have actually raised the VE to ground where the Falcon already sits in many areas, at least on paper. Remember the point being what has to be done from the Ford side, specifically FPV to respond to VE. Part of FPV’s response is what Ford give them to start with. In this early stage the products that FPV have influence over are the XR6T XR8 and the dedicated FPV cars. Ford gets credit for their continuous upgrades that have (on paper) positioned the product favourably. There doesn’t seem to be too much innovation that Ford haven’t got covered and that is a positive start to any response.

We might have more in common then people here might know.
I have the reputation in UCP of being the worlds biggest Denny Mooney hater, And i have some crap from holden guys about it over the years. The guys a **** simple as that he is nothing.
Anyway my personal **** aside now.
OK i would have to be pretty dum and blind to consider the blade control not a world class IRS. I believe it won some large world award also in 2002?

Dash designs there are also 2 since ???? There was 3 actually on my model, A Level 1 Level 2 and Level 3. 2 on the VR onwards. IS that what we were talking about the dash dials?.

On paper close but just like a boxing fight on paper it all looks close but when the bell rings??? Then we will get it.

You should come over to UCP.com you would fit in well there with the ford holden Mitsubishi Honda Nissan Toyota guys.

I found a $1

HSE2 · 18-07-2006, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Dash designs there are also 2 since ???? There was 3 actually on my model, A Level 1 Level 2 and Level 3. 2 on the VR onwards. IS that what we were talking about the dash dials?.

Nope at least i wasn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

You should come over to UCP.com you would fit in well there with the ford holden Mitsubishi Honda Nissan Toyota guys.

I get into enough trouble with the forums I subscribe to now

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

I found a $1

You have made 80 cents profit then

AWD Chaser · 18-07-2006, 10:14 PM

Let me do a summary so far...

This thread is now 5 pages long and:

The VE was only unvieled on Sunday
HSV is yet to release the E series lineup
FPV probably havn't even shortlisted any terms of a response to the VE
There is about half a page of posts relating to the thread topic.... lol
HRT may design a special windscreen on the VE to fit Mark Skaife's nose into his car... yet to be confirmed....

HSE2 · 18-07-2006, 10:25 PM

These quotes are taken from the Go auto news letter by Marton Penttendy and Denny himself

"Instead, the all-new HSV range will offer an even more powerful 6.0-litre V8 mated for the first time to a six-speed automatic transmission, an unprecedented level of refinement and exclusive new features – all housed in new-from-the-groundup short- and long-wheelbase sedan models"

This next comment goes a long way to explaining many comments that are out here:

“We’ve put more of our unique content on the cars like the long-wheelbase cars, but when you see what HSV has done – they’ve taken it to the
next level,” Holden chairman Denny Mooney told GoAuto at the VE Commodore reveal on Sunday.
“I’m really excited about those products. I’m excited about what they can do with their brand.”

HSE2 · 18-07-2006, 10:34 PM

Oh and "Mr Skaife supposedly claimed E series HSVs will set the opposition back five years"

HSE2 · 18-07-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

Let me do a summary so far...
[*]FPV probably havn't even shortlisted any terms of a response to the VE
[/list]

That's probably where Skaife gets his prediction from then :togo:

mr_xr8 · 18-07-2006, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

Oh and "Mr Skaife supposedly claimed E series HSVs will set the opposition back five years"

thats a big statement to live up too.
sounds something like the alloytek talk up.
IMO most of the time i think Skaife is a bit more then full of himself

Ryan · 18-07-2006, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

Oh and "Mr Skaife supposedly claimed E series HSVs will set the opposition back five years"

Oh boy...

As mr_xr8 said, that's a big statement to live up too and quite arrogant.

Bossxr8 · 18-07-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

Oh and "Mr Skaife supposedly claimed E series HSVs will set the opposition back five years"

Considering HSV are already years behind the BF it will just even it out then. Until Orion comes and puts them years behind again.

HSE2 · 18-07-2006, 10:49 PM

That came from the LS1 site at a supposed club meeting so what else is he going to say. Salt time

mr_xr8 · 18-07-2006, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

That came from the LS1 site at a supposed club meeting so what else is he going to say. Salt time

thats sound like the story i caught a fish this big, *next time it is told* it was this big

HSE2 · 18-07-2006, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Considering HSV are already years behind the BF it will just even it out then. Until Orion comes and puts them years behind again.

They are just like us and have raided the parts bin somewhere.

They could be talking about anything. They have ruled out manual sequential so that might leave steering wheel activation on the auto. Probably unlikely. Supposedly keyless go was on the Holden wish list but too expensive so that should rule HSV out of that idea.

They could be talking about some sort of HUD but most likely some evolution of the DDI from the SV600.

AP Racing does have 8 piston callipers.

If Holden have 20 inch rims then HSV have probably gone to 30 inch

Perhaps active seats

Perhaps radar cruise

Auto rain sensing wipers are already in one of the Holden models.

Sat nav to get DVD

:

What’s some of that other stuff available in the Caddie?

McobraR · 18-07-2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

They are just like us and have raided the parts bin somewhere.

They could be talking about anything. They have ruled out manual sequential so that might leave steering wheel activation on the auto. Probably unlikely. Supposedly keyless go was on the Holden wish list but too expensive so that should rule HSV out of that idea.

They could be talking about some sort of HUD but most likely some evolution of the DDI from the SV600.

AP Racing does have 8 piston callipers.

If Holden have 20 inch rims then HSV have probably gone to 30 inch

Perhaps active seats

Perhaps radar cruise

Auto rain sensing wipers are already in one of the Holden models.

Sat nav to get DVD

:

What’s some of that other stuff available in the Caddie?

HSV will get that magnetic ride suspension thang that suppsedly does miracles. From the tests theyve shown of a vehicle with that magnetic ride thing, it really does keep the car to the ground!
So lets see, an awesome 6L V8, with over 300kw, and that magnetic ride... yeh, i think it'll put HSV back in front, though, theyve always seemed to have been in front in terms of the track, but i guess there aint much people who take their car racing. Lets see if they can match ford in terms of touring ride quality

Full Spectrum · 19-07-2006, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

Nope at least i wasn't.

I get into enough trouble with the forums I subscribe to now

You have made 80 cents profit then

Which one was it we were talking about

I have lost it?.

This is pretty good for open all types of discussions. But if someone from overseas gets on a Aussie car you would be surprised at the team effort of all member to put them back in the place.
It happen when a guy from the UK who has never set foot in OZ bagged the XR6 as being to heavy to cheap and stupidly over powerful with that 3.5lt engine. Thats what he said he got a wake up call fast

I got 80c and my mum took $2

Quote:

Originally Posted by McobraR

HSV will get that magnetic ride suspension thang that suppsedly does miracles. From the tests theyve shown of a vehicle with that magnetic ride thing, it really does keep the car to the ground!
So lets see, an awesome 6L V8, with over 300kw, and that magnetic ride... yeh, i think it'll put HSV back in front, though, theyve always seemed to have been in front in terms of the track, but i guess there aint much people who take their car racing. Lets see if they can match ford in terms of touring ride quality

Ferrari also have just used it i believe.
With HSV i don't believe they ever look on the good cruising side of there suspension tunes, FPV try and balance theres to be a touch both ways wheres HSV go more one way in that.
Maybe the VE might spell the end of all out race set-up.
Cause the beauty of our performance cars is that we can use them day 2 day.