New to cycling

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by swanny

Well, that went well!

Yesterday afternoon I decided to swap over my cranks to the Tiagra compact set that were originally on the bike (and another bottle cage, Shav!) I had to take 3 links out of the chain, move the front derailleur down a bit, and got it shifting okay.
I mapped out a 69km course to tackle, and set off this morning. I had it all going... good breakfast, water and energy drink on board, a few muesli bars in my pocket and compact cranks to try out and a cadence meter fitted.
The ride was feeling good, I pushed it a bit harder in a few places, and thought I'd settle down for a bit at the 30km mark to save a bit for the end.

Then at around 36km, that's when the chain let go! It was so disappointing... the link disappeared, and I didn't have the tool to rejoin it with me. Lucky my partner could come pick me up.

Anyway, looking at the data, I see that I was averaging a cadence of 93, which is more than I thought I was doing. The average speed is down because it was recording my 5km/hr walk for about 3kms. The compact cranks seemed to let me use more of the gears on the rear cassette, and felt better than I remember them. Perhaps I've got a bit of riding in my legs since I last used them.

I'll have to try again tomorrow, after either a new chain or rejoining this one!

When you re joined the chain did you use the old pin or did you use a new joining pin. If you try and reuse an old upon you will often not seat it properly and the chain will snap. On shimano chains you must use a new joining pin, it is the only way to be sure it is going to be secure and a snapped chain as you are standing on a climb can be a very messy affair.

By the way what chainring and cassette sizes do you have? I am just doing a bit of a comparison so all will become clear soon?

[Captain Stubing]

I think that's what caused the problem... reusing the old pin. I ducked out and picked up a new chain this afternoon and then realised what must have happened. I should have asked if they sold the pins by themselves!

The cassette I have fitted is an 11 speed, with 11-28 teeth gears. The crank is the 50/34 Tiagra combo.

I'm thinking now, since the 11 speed chain is more narrow than a 10 speed, are the Tiagra teeth too wide?

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by swanny

I think that's what caused the problem... reusing the old pin. I ducked out and picked up a new chain this afternoon and then realised what must have happened. I should have asked if they sold the pins by themselves!

The cassette I have fitted is an 11 speed, with 11-28 teeth gears. The crank is the 50/34 Tiagra combo.

I'm thinking now, since the 11 speed chain is more narrow than a 10 speed, are the Tiagra teeth too wide?

Never re use a pin, it used to work on old chains but the tolerances on shimano chains since 9 speed is too tight and no longer is a safe option. Your local bike shop will have replacement pins, I always keep a few handy (which reminds me I have to pick up some more).

So I assume it is a 10 speed Tiagra crankset, I will see what I can find out for you.

[geckoGT]

I noticed on your strava that not only was your average cadence high at 93 but you were often in the 95-105 rpm range.

I would be careful with this cadence. Yes a high cadence is good and yes spinners are grinners but a cadence too high leads to poor pedalling form. I think a cadence range of 85-95 is a good range to be in.

Out of curiosity, what chain ring and cog would you normally be in on flat ground at your normal average speed or cadence?

[prydey]

Whilst a higher cadence is good when climbing and generally more efficient on all terrain, it can also create a higher heart rate depending on your cardio fitness.

[geckoGT]

Are these the same as your chainrings?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/a...questid=884838

[Captain Stubing]

I can't give a definite answer on that, as today was the first time I used the cadence meter, and for the last year and a bit I've been using the 53/39 crankset.

With the larger crankset, I would sometimes get into the large chainring, maybe in the low 30's (speedwise). On a good day I might see low 40's on the flat.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by prydey

Whilst a higher cadence is good when climbing and generally more efficient on all terrain, it can also create a higher heart rate depending on your cardio fitness.

Just as a car engine has a sweet zone for RPM, so do your legs. There is a lot of current talk about the push to high cadence and the influence of Lance Armstrong in the push to cadences upwards of 100 rpm. The consensus at the moment seems to be that a cadence that high is not effective for mere mortals without the extraordinary O2 carrying capacity of a EPO fuelled cardiovascular system.

[Captain Stubing]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Are these the same as your chainrings?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/a...questid=884838

The castings look similar, though the only numbers I could see apart from the number of teeth was Shimano SG/X on the inside of the small chainring

[blueoval]

80-90 cadence is what I aim for no matter what gear im in unless im on a recovery ride then it's lower.

[Captain Stubing]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Are these the same as your chainrings?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/a...questid=884838

I found the original specs...

http://www.bikeroar.com/products/ava...1-0-2012/specs

Tiagra 4600 is the crankset.

[prydey]

Did your bike come with 11 speed hub or have you upgraded?

[Captain Stubing]

Yes I upgraded to an Ultegra 11 speed groupset, along with a new rear wheel.


***Edit *** I mentioned that on Page 49 of this thread! Keep up!

[geckoGT]

The reason I ask is because of gear selection. A common mistake I see is people riding along on flat ground in the small chainring and a small cog on the back.

For example, lets assume they are riding along on a 34 tooth chain ring to a 17 tooth cog which gives a 52.9" gear. You can achieve the same 52.9" gear running a 50 tooth chain ring to a 25 tooth rear cog.

This alternative means there are considerably more teeth bearing the load on the chain resulting in less chainring wear, less sprocket wear and less chain wear. This is how I got over 50,000km out of a Dura Ace cassette, well that and regular maintenance and oiling.

Also remember your 11 speed is not really 11 speed, it is really a 9 speed because you should never run small chainring to small cog or large chainring to large cog. This involves a terrible chainline which causes excessive wear on the chain for a gear that is duplicated anyway. For example a 50-28 is the same ratio as a 34-19, a 34-11 is similar to a 50-16.

[geckoGT]

A shimano 11 speed ultegra chain is cross compatible with a tiagra 4600 crankset so no issue there.

[Captain Stubing]

Cross-chaining is something I avoid! You can hear the teeth objecting, moreso on the full size crankset, it seems to me.
Today I found I was able to use the large chainring more effectively, using a wider range of gears on the cassette which made the ride more enjoyable. The 53t chainring always presented itself as a challenge to get it up to speed - which is why I thought it'd help build my leg strength.

[Captain Stubing]

In respect to cadence, I was trying to concentrate on a "toe pointed downward" position, which seems to feel stronger than if my foot is drooping, with the heel dropping.

There's a lot to learn, in spite of what age you are!

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by swanny

In respect to cadence, I was trying to concentrate on a "toe pointed downward" position, which seems to feel stronger than if my foot is drooping, with the heel dropping.

There's a lot to learn, in spite of what age you are!

There are a lot of theories regarding toes pointed pedalling. Many suggest it reduces the amount of leg extension at the bottom of the pedal stroke and also promotes a down stroke only pedalling style rather than a more 'round' style.

[prydey]

pedalling technique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjdSJ-YrCcM

GCN have lots of clips on youtube. i find them quite good.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by prydey

pedalling technique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjdSJ-YrCcM

GCN have lots of clips on youtube. i find them quite good.

They had a interesting video on climbing cadence. They found that pedalling at greater than 80 RPM resulted in higher blood lactate levels.

[geckoGT]

Good video. The sensation of 'scraping your foot' on the bottom of the stroke is a handy one to remember.

One legged drills have kind of fallen out of favour now.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

They had a interesting video on climbing cadence. They found that pedalling at greater than 80 RPM resulted in higher blood lactate levels.

anything more than about 8% i struggle to get near 80 anyway. haven't watched all their video's. just when i need to find out how to do something i turn to youtube, and often their video's are quite helpful.

[geckoGT]

My comfortable zone seems to be about 60-70 on anything up to around 10% climb. On Henri Roberts drive (22%) I was struggling at 35 RPM. The new cassette is on order now.

[Captain Stubing]

I've watched a lot of GCN's vid's but missed this one. They do have others on pedalling, though... where I heard the "scraping your foot", also elliptical pedalling. Cyclocore isn't so entertaining, but provides some interesting info.

When it comes down to it, I get out there, and get distracted by the scenery 7 times out of 10, and have to snap back to what I'm trying to get my legs to do. Either way, I'm loving it, because I'm doing something I really enjoy.

Now... I have to finish my project car off to enjoy as well!

[prydey]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

My comfortable zone seems to be about 60-70 on anything up to around 10% climb. On Henri Roberts drive (22%) I was struggling at 35 RPM. The new cassette is on order now.

yes, but you are still on standard cranks aren't you? (53/39).

[prydey]

Originally Posted by swanny

When it comes down to it, I get out there, and get distracted by the scenery 7 times out of 10, and have to snap back to what I'm trying to get my legs to do. Either way, I'm loving it, because I'm doing something I really enjoy.

and this is what its all about. i often zone out when i ride solo. i'm lucky where i live i'm right on the edge of suburbia, and its only a half hour ride or so in to awesome countryside. being a shift worker, i often get around like a bear with a sore head. my wife encourages me to ride now, as apparently i'm a different person if i've had a ride. its great for clearing your head and just enjoying the moment.

[geckoGT]

Yes I am. Henri Roberts drive is the only climb that I struggle with on the standard 39/53 combo. I currently have a 11-25 cassette but have a 12-27 on order which should be enough to get me up Henri Roberts but still have a good usable spread of gears for my normal rides.

That is the theory anyway.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by swanny

When it comes down to it, I get out there, and get distracted by the scenery 7 times out of 10, and have to snap back to what I'm trying to get my legs to do. !

Yes
I'm a sucker for scenery as well. My legs stop, I jump off the bike and I just suck it in for a minute and then I'm off again.



How many klms are you guys doing a week ?
I'm trying to do 100.
2 x 40 KLM rides weather permitting and then I'll cheat and do 2 x10 KLM rides on my stationary trainer.
I'm not quite there yet....but close !!

[Batmobile]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I noticed on your strava that not only was your average cadence high at 93 but you were often in the 95-105 rpm range.

I would be careful with this cadence. Yes a high cadence is good and yes spinners are grinners but a cadence too high leads to poor pedalling form. I think a cadence range of 85-95 is a good range to be in.

Out of curiosity, what chain ring and cog would you normally be in on flat ground at your normal average speed or cadence?

Whilst I agree , if you are relatively new cycling , how you manage your cadence is paramount . However, do not make the mistake , of seeking a specific cadence range without reference to speed .
That is, as a very rough guide , I would be seeking a cadence of 80+ with a road speed of 30k/ph on the flats (39/16 say) and on hills of 5-6% I would be seeking similar cadence with a road speed of around 20k/ph (39/19)
Then, as your fitness improves , and your leg strength and action improves , at first use the same cadence , and move down the cassette , that is , flat road , 39/15 , and same hill 39/17 , and so on

[prydey]

Focusing on speed doesn't always take in to account weather conditions. You aren't going to ride at the same speed in a strong headwind.