Petrol Price crisis......

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Did I hear correctly on the radio this morning that energy "crisis" has been averted?

Yes sort of, 3 coal stations in all 3 eastern sates have been re fired up temporarily.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There was contracts signed with France for submarines too but look what happened to those

Mr Potato head also wanted War with China.........

$850Million in compensation to france, and a relationship to mend!!

Costs us all well into the future!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ivorya

Mr Potato head also wanted War with China.........

$850Million in compensation to france, and a relationship to mend!!

Costs us all well into the future!

Relax Chachi, no one wants to start **** with China, but we also shouldn't be rolling over to them in the first place unless you want to live in 'education camps'. China isn't our 'friend' and has been trying to interfere in our democracy for years - you can't level these issues at a single government, the mistakes span multiple governments over decades from both colour ties.

Who cares about our relationship with France, they've been *** kissing Russia recently over the latest European dramas - didn't Australia help them out in two world wars?

France basically ripped us off and hired our own ex defence procurement people to lobby against our own government, it wasn't like the original deal was good for us anyway, now they're salty over us waking up to their scam and partnering with the US and UK in a technology sharing pact.

Here's an hour long lecture over the French submarine fiasco going into great detail about the people involved if you feel so passionately about them, it summarises 2009-2020 and the other options that were on the table at the time and how some of the decisions were made.



There's also some other dramas brewing with French companies providing services to Australian governments of both colours too, Google 'Alstom' and their involvement in VIC.

Before we drag this too far away from energy and fuel dramas, NSW has decided to take steps in case it needs to force some decisions and given itself temporary emergency powers.

NSW Energy Minister Matt Kean granted temporary emergency powers to force coal to electricity generators

NSW Treasurer and Energy Minister Matt Kean says emergency powers to control the state's coal supplies are a precautionary measure to "keep the lights on and the system going".

Key points:

The emergency powers allow Mr Kean to direct coal to the state's electricity generators

Mr Kean says he sought the temporary powers on the advice of AEMO

He says the measure is "on stand-by" and is not needed just yet

Mr Kean said he asked the NSW Governor, Margaret Beazley, to grant him the temporary powers on Thursday night, following advice from the Australian Energy Market Operator (AEMO).

The special powers give the Energy Minister the authority to declare the supply and distribution of coal as an essential service.

It means Mr Kean now has the authority to order coal producers to increase supply or facilitate the delivery of coal to electricity generators.

The powers will be in force for a period of 30 days unless revoked sooner.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-...ean/101160956?

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I think we should be looking into biofuels, yes I know the inputs don't make it worth it from a purely environmental perspective but it would give us energy independence from the Middle East and I don't see that as a bad thing.

You can make very high quality biodiesel feedstock from tallow which is a waste product from our beef industry, SA was doing it for a while there.

Canola oil also works well as a biodiesel feedstock but is a bit more expensive.

Completely agree Franco. Strongly suggest 'Alcohol can be a gas' by Dave Blume, and 'From the Fryer to the fuel tank' for the biodiesel. Both are great books. Back in the 1970's Keat B Drane did a biofuel primer for the big carby cars of that time, you can find the link on 'Journey to Forever'

I'd seriously like to see the forums do E85 conversion threads - if I haven't found them already. Liquid sunshine. Has anyone done the I6 on E85 or E100 for personal transport (not race)?

Dave Blume's book is choc-a-block full of good ways to do it - even selling the byproduct after fermentation as high end feedstocks! The chapter I like the most is Chapter 13 'Surprise! Ethanol is the perfect fuel! - We can put E85 in our cars now! Really!' where he outlines the South Dakota growers just putting E85 into their unconverted EFI test vehicles, and it worked too.

The way Australia is run, if you're on the ground living in it, you might as well be completely independent as much as possible in your power, fuels (food as much as possible).

And agree, it will take more than electrics to get to carbon zero. The really silly thing is the 'developing world' (including those who have space programs), aren't worring about carbon zero at all, and are putting up more and more coal fired power stations...

Anyway - can we get a thread on:

How to convert an Intech AU six to E100
How to convert and reprogram any 1990s EFI to run on ethanol?

[Franco Cozzo]

Also notice how about a decade ago E85 was 30c/L cheaper than 98 when both Caltex (Ampol) and United brought it to market? Now there's only one brand selling it at the pumps (United), its way more expensive than 98?

Brazil has been using E85 for a very long time, the engines coming out of the GM Port Melbourne engine plant going into the Brazilian market were modified for E85 capability.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Plus the Green movement in Europe considers natural gas OK vs coal, Biomass burning waste to generate electricity also OK, Nuclear OK....why do we have greens here with a different view on these fuel energy sources?

Is it guilt because of the 'per capita' furphy?

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Also notice how about a decade ago E85 was 30c/L cheaper than 98 when both Caltex (Ampol) and United brought it to market? Now there's only one brand selling it at the pumps (United), its way more expensive than 98?

Brazil has been using E85 for a very long time, the engines coming out of the GM Port Melbourne engine plant going into the Brazilian market were modified for E85 capability.

Probably why VF MY14 and VEII 3.0 and V8 got E85 capability, apart from the damn timing chains they're my pick for bargain basement green transport with added fuel independence!

[Sprintey]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-...jobs/101161446

85 yo business

what a terrible situation, muppets eradicating industry

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-...jobs/101161446

85 yo business

what a terrible situation, muppets eradicating industry

Its alright, we can just buy bricks from China, like everything else and these 23 people can have coffee vans and make fancy coffee or something

Or realistically whats going to happen is 23 people are going to land on newstart and struggle to find work.

[bb_zetec]

The country is a joke plain and simple.

The pollies who allowed all our energy to be sent overseas are protected by parliamentary privilege now and cant be made to pay for their failures.

Anybody who expects this green energy fallacy to solve their problems is just plain stupid.

The transition to green energy should be a 20-30 year process...not a quick "turn it off" and she will be right mate.

Japan has clean burning coal technology, yet we are turning off all our coal powered energy.

Years of neglect and underinvestment has brought us to where we are at today.

All power generation should be government owned and run, these things are not to make profit.

We only know how to dig things up and send them overseas...that's about it.

Once the so called "green energy" manifesto takes effect we will become a backwater.

We are simply told to accept that our energy bills will double and cop it sweet. Great example above in the 85 year old family business forced to close. There will be others..

Our new incoming government looks to be no better and will do nothing except talk legalese to say "its not our problem"

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by ivorya

Mr Potato head also wanted War with China.........

$850Million in compensation to france, and a relationship to mend!!

Costs us all well into the future!

No, that was the correct decision, we will get subs that could be a real threat to an oncoming carrier battle group rather than the (still capable) diesel electrics we have. It will be a quantum jump in capability, and we'll probably need it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsEJrxKh0k0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEDy4_ozmnw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VelqMWxuuCw

one of the best channels out there

[Franco Cozzo]

Anyone else find it ironic we have virtually zero manufacturing industry anymore and yet we're struggling to keep the lights on?

Manufacturing is a massive energy consumer, we have less energy requirements now than when we did when we had manufacturing industries running, but we're on the cusp of blackouts?

We were talking about various feedstocks for biofuels recently, the irony is the Russia-Ukraine war has caused supply shortages globally of vegetable oils because both Ukraine and Russia are huge producers of sunflower oil accounting for about 75% of the global supply

Its used in a lot of Eastern European cuisine - Chebureki

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Also notice how about a decade ago E85 was 30c/L cheaper than 98 when both Caltex (Ampol) and United brought it to market? Now there's only one brand selling it at the pumps (United), its way more expensive than 98?

Brazil has been using E85 for a very long time, the engines coming out of the GM Port Melbourne engine plant going into the Brazilian market were modified for E85 capability.

https://www.manildra.com.au/product/ethanol/

quite a scenic location for the production, too

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

https://www.manildra.com.au/product/ethanol/

quite a scenic location for the production, too

Imagine Melton but by a river and thats Nowra, spent a night there in a motel - 'The Aussie Steakhouse' was alright though

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Anyone else find it ironic we have virtually zero manufacturing industry anymore and yet we're struggling to keep the lights on?

Manufacturing is a massive energy consumer, we have less energy requirements now than when we did when we had manufacturing industries running, but we're on the cusp of blackouts?

We were talking about various feedstocks for biofuels recently, the irony is the Russia-Ukraine war has caused supply shortages globally of vegetable oils because both Ukraine and Russia are huge producers of sunflower oil accounting for about 75% of the global supply

Wonder if there's a window to process it locally? (If not already done)

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Imagine Melton but by a river and thats Nowra, spent a night there in a motel - 'The Aussie Steakhouse' was alright though

Had a work stopover at Fitzroy Crossing once...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Wonder if there's a window to process it locally? (If not already done)

SA had capabilities to manufacture high quality biodiesel - refer this post:

https://fordforums.com.au/showpost.p...postcount=1479

So it obviously can be done, just needs to be political will which I doubt we'll find due to the nature of the political donations and short sighted nature of our political class.

Diesel is way more important than unleaded I reckon, the price of diesel effects everything where as unleaded basically effects you getting to/from work.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Relax Chachi, no one wants to start **** with China, but we also shouldn't be rolling over to them in the first place unless you want to live in 'education camps'. China isn't our 'friend' and has been trying to interfere in our democracy for years - you can't level these issues at a single government, the mistakes span multiple governments over decades from both colour ties.

Who cares about our relationship with France, they've been *** kissing Russia recently over the latest European dramas - didn't Australia help them out in two world wars?

France basically ripped us off and hired our own ex defence procurement people to lobby against our own government, it wasn't like the original deal was good for us anyway, now they're salty over us waking up to their scam and partnering with the US and UK in a technology sharing pact.

Here's an hour long lecture over the French submarine fiasco going into great detail about the people involved if you feel so passionately about them, it summarises 2009-2020 and the other options that were on the table at the time and how some of the decisions were made.



There's also some other dramas brewing with French companies providing services to Australian governments of both colours too, Google 'Alstom' and their involvement in VIC.

Before we drag this too far away from energy and fuel dramas, NSW has decided to take steps in case it needs to force some decisions and given itself temporary emergency powers.



https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-...ean/101160956?

Thanks Al Delvecchio

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Also notice how about a decade ago E85 was 30c/L cheaper than 98 when both Caltex (Ampol) and United brought it to market? Now there's only one brand selling it at the pumps (United), its way more expensive than 98?

Brazil has been using E85 for a very long time, the engines coming out of the GM Port Melbourne engine plant going into the Brazilian market were modified for E85 capability.

When Covid first hit, hand sanitizer was suddenly in massive global demand and most use 60-80% Ethanol or Isopropyl Alcohol.
I couldn't buy any alcohol of any type from say late March 2020 to June 2020 and the price tripled...as certain importers/producer mongrels sold to anyone that came along, leaving their regular clients high and alcohol dry while the resellers made massive profits.

I'd say your E85 got stung by the alcohol shortage and price rise on top of the petrol price rise....and the irony is today I can buy as much 1000L IBC's of alcohol being sold by surplus resellers and name my price although the stuff is over 2 years old and probably starting to get contaminated.

[jpd80]

Yeah, so instead of all the cane farmers producing sugarcane for sugar,
maybe that should go into more Ethanol for biofuels like South America.

Farmers struggling to make a buck could switch to sunflower and rapeseed
crops on guaranteed contracts from biodiesel companies..something for locals.

Lots of things possible but will governments support keeping money and business in this country….

[Gumboot]

Interestingly I was speaking to my ford dealer yesterday and said some of the people that ordered the new ranger raptor have cancelled and pulled out, based on the fact they need to run it on premium unleaded due to the price of fuel up here now.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Gumboot

Interestingly I was speaking to my ford dealer yesterday and said some of the people that ordered the new ranger raptor have cancelled and pulled out, based on the fact they need to run it on premium unleaded due to the price of fuel up here now.

Buys 300KW $100,000 car, pulls out cause $2.50/L fuel

If you have $100K sitting around surely you wouldn't care what fuel costs, mind you no one actually pays cash for anything anymore its all finance.

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

When Covid first hit, hand sanitizer was suddenly in massive global demand and most use 60-80% Ethanol or Isopropyl Alcohol.
I couldn't buy any alcohol of any type from say late March 2020 to June 2020 and the price tripled...as certain importers/producer mongrels sold to anyone that came along, leaving their regular clients high and alcohol dry while the resellers made massive profits.

I'd say your E85 got stung by the alcohol shortage and price rise on top of the petrol price rise....and the irony is today I can buy as much 1000L IBC's of alcohol being sold by surplus resellers and name my price although the stuff is over 2 years old and probably starting to get contaminated.

Was priced well above 98 even prior to COVID, I think its just a case of it only really caters to the automotive aftermarket these days, it would be a low volume but high profit fuel.

[Gumboot]

Yeah, didn’t make sense to me either.
Maybe they are mortgaged to the hilt, have purchased on finance and the cost of living, house payments and fuel is starting to bite. Not sure.

[Citroënbender]

Yes, I’d see that as a lame excuse too. Kind of tars the would-be owners.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Gumboot

Yeah, didn’t make sense to me either.
Maybe they are mortgaged to the hilt, have purchased on finance and the cost of living, house payments and fuel is starting to bite. Not sure.

Get Hinge going on your phone and look at all the over-extended 30-somethings looking for someone to shout them overseas holidays and expensive clothes, or the other side who have financed Ranger Raptors with a penchant for $300 a pop nose beers, was at a pub in the CBD a few weeks ago and people were indulging in the nose beers freely in the gents and someone in the middle of the gaming floor at the casino and its not the typical high flyers either

You're on the money - live within your social class, I don't exist on paper because I've paid cash for all my toys

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Farmers struggling to make a buck could switch to sunflower and rapeseed
crops on guaranteed contracts from biodiesel companies..something for locals.

Lots of things possible but will governments support keeping money and business in this country….

Was a great bio diesel plant here, Barnawatha until recently all the local farmers already grow high yield Canola. Twice a year harvest. First cut is the oil, second lower cut a few months later gives them feed lot crop.
Most of the seed is dumped at the ports into containers tilted upright for loading then stuck on a ship bound for Iraq, Iran, middle east.

Jathropha (from India) is the crop I would grow, 4 times the yield of sunflowers, the berries grow on what act as a windbreak and to keep animals in their fields.
I reckon India will be a future fuel supplier the way they are developing this crop while we sit here stuffing around.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Was a great bio diesel plant here, Barnawatha until recently all the local farmers already grow high yield Canola. Twice a year harvest. First cut is the oil, second lower cut a few months later gives them feed lot crop.
Most of the seed is dumped at the ports into containers tilted upright for loading then stuck on a ship bound for Iraq, Iran, middle east.

Jathropha (from India) is the crop I would grow, 4 times the yield of sunflowers, the berries grow on what act as a windbreak and to keep animals in their fields.
I reckon India will be a future fuel supplier the way they are developing this crop while we sit here stuffing around.

There's concern about promoting biofuels because every farm who plants biofuels crops is one less farm producing food.

But we're not some ****ty third world country so one assumes we wouldn't starve ourselves, but given what's happening with energy I'm not so sure to be honest

Like everything else we do, we can just buy it from China or some other ****ty exploitative third world country

[roKWiz]

[QUOTE=Franco Cozzo;6719107]There's concern about promoting biofuels because every farm who plants biofuels crops is one less farm producing food.

[QUOTE]

I love hearing this argument from Green groups but they will accept ripping up good coastal farm land for Legoland housing and vineyards so we can **** it up against a wall.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I love hearing this argument from Green groups but they will accept ripping up good coastal farm land for Legoland housing and vineyards so we can **** it up against a wall.

Check out something called the 'heat island effect' - its a problem in outer Western Sydney and also Western suburbs in Melbourne like Tarneit where you have tons of houses jam packed in together, lots of concrete and no green spaces.

Even things like orientation of houses being wrong, then trying to fight nature with things like triple glazed windows, makes the house more expensive to build and then you spent a heap on heating and cooling.

This is Tarneit satellite view - notice hardly anyone has solar panels either on all these new houses:



Funny how its always the West in both Melbourne and Sydney, no one cares about the reffos, cheap and nasty houses on tiny blocks for all our mechanical engineers working as Uber/courier drivers

Then because everyone uses more energy on heating and cooling their crappily designed and placed houses, we have 'energy shortages'

I live in the middle of nowhere out on the regional fringe of Melbourne, you can see the difference in planning laws/legislation taking effect, guess where the old part of town is and the new estates are in the below satellite photo:



There's a problem and its on the legislation side.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There's concern about promoting biofuels because every farm who plants biofuels crops is one less farm producing food.

But we're not some ****ty third world country so one assumes we wouldn't starve ourselves, but given what's happening with energy I'm not so sure to be honest

Beauty of Jatropha is it doesn't require the amount of water needed like Canola (rapeseed) crops so can be grown further inland in more arid conditions.